The Dichotomy of Christians

[Pah]

In the United States, the Constitution is the law of the land. It is the controling authority for every citizen.

Whether you agree that the Constitution is godless or not, the individual rights and freedoms it promises to protect are sometimes at odds with some Christians whose sectarian authority rests with God as written in the Bible. The injunction is spoken by Jesus at Matthew 22:21 "Give to Caesar what is Caesar's, and to God what is God's"

My question to be discussed is how and where should Christians draw the line between what is God's and what is Caesar's.?

 

[Pah]

The following post from quick appeared in Religion in school

The problem, in a nutshell, is that most religions create a worldview that is outcome determinative on many issues. As a Christian, my faith affects my view of human nature, good and evil, scientific truth, marriage, other religions, etc., ad infinitum. Many other religions are similar.

The problem is a fundamental one with our entire system of government. For generations, we had a de facto state Christianity that formed the basis for almost everything we did, officially or otherwise. IT was more fundamental than our Declaration or our Constitution, and predated these documents by many centuries. Our Founders simply did not recognize that this culture would become so diverse (as opposed to simply northern European) that freedom of religion would come to mean Islam and Christianty and Wiccan living side by side, rather than Methodists and Presbyterians getting along.

Eventually, someone's ox will be gored, and then the polity will be in crisis. If your religion means anything to you at all, there are points as to which compromise is not an option. I can tell that within 30 or 40 years, Christians will be on the run in this country that we founded, and we will either fight back or die, unless God, in his wisdom, brings us a spirit of revival. It is impossible for many of these religions to peacefully co-exist unless they are "believed" to the extent of parlor conversation and nothing more.

The de facto government seems to be more theocratic then the democracy we have always had in place since the granting of the Constitution. Oh, democracy is practised but only within a religious framework - democracy for and by the religious. That makes a travesty of true democracy.

At one extreme, we have Christian splinter groups who would instill Theonomy and Christian Reconstructionism as the basis for our government. Their goal is " [a] developed Kingdom of God, the New Jerusalem, a world order under God's law"

A recently articulated philosophy which argues that it is the moral obligation of Christians to recapture every institution for Jesus Christ. It proclaims "the crown rights of King Jesus." The means by which this task might be accomplished--a few CR's are not convinced that it can be--is biblical law. This is the "tool of dominion." We have been assigned a dominion covenant--a God-given assignment to men to conquer in His name (Gen 1:23; 9:1-7). The founders of the movement have combined four basic Christian beliefs into one overarching system: 1) biblical law, 2) optimistic eschatology, 3) predestination (providence), and 4) presuppositional apologetics (philosophical defense of the faith).

color=blue]Christian Reconstruction[/color]

This group would say it is "outcome determinate" based on faith and on scripture.

Another large, minority grouping of Christianity would have the same result minus the Mosaic law and totally under the due process of the Constitution. These may well be termed the conservative faction of Christianity. But any "determinative outcome" would be a subversion of the Constitution - they would use it to alter its purpose.

Looking back to the "glory" days of Christianity as answer to the "faults" of our society, ignores the horrendous history of Christianity. The crusades are alive and well in our invasion of Iraq, the tortures of prisoners mimicks the witch hunts, and war (currently on "hold") contiunes within Christianity in Ireland.

The "oxen" has already been "gored" but to understand that we must be able to place ourselves in the position of the currently surpressed. These citizens of this nation, the ostercized minorities, have had enough and are taking it to the courts for Constitutional redress. The oppressed women and blacks have made inroads in society but are still stymied, at times, by the patricarhcal Christian perspective.
The laws first - then society.

The doom spelled out for Christianity is, in fact, only applicable to the conservative faction.

 

[Mr Spinkles]

The crusades are alive and well in our invasion of Iraq

Could you please elaborate?

 

[Pah]

The crusades are alive and well in our invasion of Iraq

Could you please elaborate?

"Righteous" America invading an "evil axis".

 

[Mr Spinkles]

If you're saying the Iraq war and the crusades are similar because they were both righteous acts against evil dictators, I would disagree with you.....the crusades were neither.

 

[Pah]

If you're saying the Iraq war and the crusades are similar because they were both righteous acts against evil dictators, I would disagree with you.....the crusades were neither.

"Righteous" in the sense that God was on our side and we wanted to impose democracy for the security of the region. There are some simularities but not a perfect fit.

I wonder if you would care to comment on the topic of the thread. I answered quick here because it seems he would draw the line between God and state very very close to God. His comment seemed to ignore the state's interest in the rights of individuals.

 

[Mr Spinkles]

I agree with you on this one, pah. America is not a theocracy, but a secular democracy (federal republic to be exact). If you want to see what really happens when government and religion are mixed, buy a plane ticket to Iran. :roll:

 

[ap0stle]

It is an immutable fact of carnal life that nations try to control each other because they try to control their future.

Jesus' words remain largely ignored by the bulk of the church. If not ignored, then twisted and distorted by men and women to suit their 'kingdom on earth theology'.

My free booklet 'DNA of SIN' explains the dichotomy succinctly in terms of the truth as 'free choice' not as 'empowerment'. Email me and I'll send you a copy.

 

[Pah]

It is an immutable fact of carnal life that nations try to control each other because they try to control their future.

Jesus' words remain largely ignored by the bulk of the church. If not ignored, then twisted and distorted by men and women to suit their 'kingdom on earth theology'.

My free booklet 'DNA of SIN' explains the dichotomy succinctly in terms of the truth as 'free choice' not as 'empowerment'. Email me and I'll send you a copy.

Perhaps you'd like to summarize it in this "public" thread

 

[painted wolf]

If you want to see what really happens when government and religion are mixed, buy a plane ticket to Iran.

Or spend some time in Utah

wa:do