The dishonest use of the name "Christian"

[Reverend Rick]

For me it means anyone who believes in Jesus and takes it upon themselves to follow his teachings.

:bow:

 

[Reverend Rick]

I'm continually amazed at the number people who feel they have the right to redefine what that name means considering it's a name that never belonged to them until they attempted to steal it through the twising its defintion.

No true Scottsman?

What happened to Judge not lest ye be judged KOTJ?

 

[Rainbow Mage]

I could be mistaken, but it seems that maybe King supposes that the title Christian is like a name. If one thought they were like some gold standard of being Christian or thought they had authority to define Christian that might be how they see it.

Basically, anyone who agrees with me is Christian.

 

[Bob Dixon]

King would be in for a big surprise if he found out about the true diversity of beliefs within early Christianity.

 

[Nakosis]

King would be in for a big surprise if he found out about the true diversity of beliefs within early Christianity.

Yeah I was thinking along the lines that the followers of Paul were a cultist branch of gentiles.

Dang gentiles going around trying to have sex with everyone they could. Paul had to lay down some strict rules trying to keep them in line.

 

[Reverend Rick]

Don't you just wish God would come and set us all straight? I would love to see and hear the rightiousness. I believe it will be an awesome day when the meek inherit the earth.

 

[Reverend Rick]

I can see it all now.........

"Who told you it's OK to eat pork?"

"Who said wine is bad? How did you get that one wrong, I made friggin wine duh!".

"Who the hell is Paul?"

 

[-Peacemaker-]

Guilty as charged.



To bad, I'm going to do it anyway.

What you fail to realize is that this isn't contest to find out whose belief system most accurately represents what Jesus taught with the name "Christian" being bestowed upon the winner. And Reverend I'm surprised you don't recognize this. The defining characteristic of the original people called "Christians" was that Jesus was their God. If we're misguided in believing he's God then why is it that some many people that deny his divinity want to also be called Christians? I would think they'd want to separate themselves as much as possible from those who follow misguided ways.

 

[Shermana]

I'm continually amazed at the number people who feel they have the right to redefine what that name means considering it's a name that never belonged to them until they attempted to steal it through the twising its defintion. What is a Christian? Let's go back to who that name was bestowed upon.

Acts 11:
26 and when he found him, he brought him to Antioch. So for a whole year Barnabas and Saul met with the church and taught great numbers of people. The disciples were called Christians first at Antioch.

This was a group of people that WORSHIPPED Jesus as God. This was a group which believe that there was POWER in the name Jesus beyond any ability it had to make people feel warm and fuzzy inside. A specific group which interpreted the teachings of Jesus in a particular way. This was not a general term used to describe people that thought Jesus was a nice guy but were indifferent toward the issue of his divinity. Throughout history this name went on to describe what would now be called orthodox believers in Jesus. Now these groups may have splintered over some due to disagreements on particular issues buth they were unified in that they didn't deny the faith through heretical doctrines. Would it be appropriate if I decided to call myself of Muslim even though I don't believe Mohammed is a prophet? After all, the word muslim translated means "submission to God". I try to submit to God. Why shouldn't I take take that name? Because words are buckets that are filled with meaning. Somebody filled that bucket already. Who am I to dump their water and fill it with my own? In the same way, I think people that think Jesus was cool dude but don't view him as God should qualify their statement of beliefs with something distinguishing themselves as being separate from the actual Church.

There is no proof whatsoever that the original Church worshipped Jesus as God, and that's not even the basic idea of what the disciples actually believed. IF you believe they worshiped Jesus as God then prepare to get into a battle of interpretation and interpolation. The first mention of Jesus being seen as God is from Tertullian. There is some argument that Justin Martyr referred to him as such, but this is from Trinitarian (Catholic) translators who follow the same error of translating the Anarthrous Theos as "God" instead of as "a god", Justin Martyr in fact called Jesus the "Angel of God", are you prepared to say that you don't Justin Martyr was a Christian?

And before you bring up John 20:28 or John 1:1, I will say the same thing I've said on countless other threads about it: John's ending apparently is an add-on that clashes with the ending of Matthew, I'll be happy to link to where I discuss that in detail, I have yet to see a single person reconcile the endings of Matthew and John (where did they first meet, the Mountains of Galilee or the Locked room)? As for John 1:1, it most likely was meant to say "And a god was the word", since the word "god" was used for Angels, and arguably, based on the "lost" texts like Ascension of Isaiah (mentioned in Chronicles), the Messiah was supposed to be an Angelic being.

The word "Christian" means "One who believes that Jesus was the Messiah", has nothing to do with believing Jesus was God. What you are saying is a common distortion among Churches who are actively trying to cover up the scholarship and grammatical facts that their doctrines are in danger, going out of their way to completely distort the very meaning of what it means to be "Christian" in a (bad) attempt to discredit those of another view. This attempt to define "Christians" as "people who belileve Jesus was God" ultimately avoids the actual details of what they believed about him, trying to reduce it to a cult of personality and deification, generally avoiding the very Jewish implications of what it meant to be a member of the early pre-orthodox church.

This is actually one of my favorite verses when discussing what the word "Christian" means. We know that the original Church at Antioch under Peter were pretty much what we call today "Messianic Jews", it was simply a Jewish sect. When Paul and Barnabas first arrived, notice the word refers to the "Disciples". Paul probably didn't have time to change and distort everything that Peter was teaching yet, so it's very fair to say that the word "Christian" meant "member of the Nazarene Jewish sect" and only later had this meaning changed to suit the wants of the anti-Judaizing orthodox.

If anything, this attempt to say who is using the word "Christian" dishonestly is very dishonest. I would say that all of the 99.99999% of Pauline "Christians' who aren't "Messianic Jews" (and I use that word with quotations for a reason as well) are using the name dishonestly, but that's for another story.

 

[Shermana]

Actually king Christian by literal definition just means Christ-follower. The Bible seems clear that Jesus is not God. The case could be made Christ is, but that only proves the Gnostics were right and Chalcedon was wrong.

Indeed, the Trinity is essentially a particular kind of Gnosticism syncretized into the "orthodox" teachings.

 

[-Peacemaker-]

Actually king Christian by literal definition just means Christ-follower. The Bible seems clear that Jesus is not God. The case could be made Christ is, but that only proves the Gnostics were right and Chalcedon was wrong.

Actually it literally meant "little Christ", but that's besides the point

 

[Gjallarhorn]

Actually it literally meant "little Christ", but that's besides the point

Actually that's a total lie.

c. 1590, from Latin Christianus, from Ancient Greek Χριστιανός (Christianos), from Χριστός (Christos, “Christ, anointed one”) + -ιανός (-ianos, “of, related to”)

 

[Shermana]

Actually that's a total lie.

c. 1590, from Latin Christianus, from Ancient Greek Χριστιανός (Christianos), from Χριστός (Christos, “Christ, anointed one&#8221 + -ιανός (-ianos, “of, related to&#8221

Indeed, I have yet to see an objective source for this "Little Christ" thing. I can only wonder what the agenda is for promoting this "Little Christ" concept or who is pushing it.

IF anything, it means "slave of Christ".

Mystic Believer Priest: The "Little Christ" Hogwash

 

[-Peacemaker-]

Actually that's a total lie.

c. 1590, from Latin Christianus, from Ancient Greek Χριστιανός (Christianos), from Χριστός (Christos, “Christ, anointed one&#8221 + -ιανός (-ianos, “of, related to&#8221

What does the name 'Christian' mean?

This website sums up pretty well the school of thought that I'm a product of. I was taught that it was a derogatory term used to disparage the followers of Jesus which was eventually adopted by them. Still, I won't pretend to be a Greek scholar


edit: I'm shocked there isn't a consensus on this 2000 year old name. hehehe....

 

[Shermana]

Are you aware your own site disagrees with you?

. I do not find convincing the case for identifying the suffix on the word, -ianos, as a pejorative diminutive (i.e., used disparagingly: "little Christs"), though that is frequently alleged.

This suffix is most likely a gentilic possessive, often used of slaves and the household to which they belonged

 

[-Peacemaker-]

Are you aware your own site disagrees with you?

Admittingly, I did gloss over it pretty quickly. The fact that I don't view the literal translation of the word to be of great consequence may explain my lack of attention to the details. I was drawn toward his interpretation that the name was likely not created by the community of believers but was used by the gentiles around them in frankly a mocking fashion to describe the "goody-goodys". As i said, the word "muslim" literally means something to the extent of "submission to God". It would still be dishonest for all theists to call themselves "muslims".

"1) The unbelieving gentile inhabitants at Antioch took notice of this new group which was trying to convince them to join (evangelism recorded in this chapter). Not having a Jewish background, the word "Christos" meant nothing to them, so that referring to these people in terms of "the anointed One" would have been a bit too much for them when referencing this group whose activities and beliefs (to the extent they understood them or were interested in understanding them at all) seemed ridiculous. Ready at hand, however, was an excellent pun on the name that seemed to fit them to a tee. Rather than "followers of the anointed One", they were "the goody-goody bunch" or "members of the household of Goody-Goody" (Greek chrestos, xrhsto/j, often meaning "good" or "moral" in Hellenistic Greek)."

 

[McBell]

My point that we're talking about somebody's NAME when where talking about this issue. If I tell you my name is Ben or Thomas or John you don't run to the dictionary to tell me that I'm wrong

Except you are trying to reclassify the LABEL of Christian as a name.

It matters not how you like or dislike it, the fact is that the LABEL Christian, just like all the other LABELs, means different things to different people.

 

[Katzpur]

I'm continually amazed at the number people who feel they have the right to redefine what that name means considering it's a name that never belonged to them until they attempted to steal it through the twising its defintion.

I'm wondering why it's such a concern to you. Why should people who sincerely believe themselves to be Christians change what they call themselves because you don't like their definition? I'm reasonably certain that you'd say I'm not a Christian. What gives you that right?

Actually it literally meant "little Christ", but that's besides the point

No, actually, it doesn't, and it's definitely not beside the point. There is nowhere in the Bible where the word "Christian" is defined. Yes, it was first applied to a particular group of people by another group of people. Did they have any more right to define the word than anyone else? The very closest thing you will find in the Bible to an actual definition of the word "Christian" comes from Jesus Christ Himself. He said, "By this shall men know that ye are my disciples, that ye have love one for another." You seem to think that there has always been one set of doctrines that "real" Christians could agree upon and that those who take issue with any of those doctrines are being "dishonest." That makes absolutely no sense to me whatsoever.

 

[McBell]

I'm continually amazed at the number people who feel they have the right to redefine what that name means considering it's a name that never belonged to them until they attempted to steal it through the twising its defintion. What is a Christian? Let's go back to who that name was bestowed upon.

Acts 11:
26 and when he found him, he brought him to Antioch. So for a whole year Barnabas and Saul met with the church and taught great numbers of people. The disciples were called Christians first at Antioch.

This was a group of people that WORSHIPPED Jesus as God. This was a group which believe that there was POWER in the name Jesus beyond any ability it had to make people feel warm and fuzzy inside. A specific group which interpreted the teachings of Jesus in a particular way. This was not a general term used to describe people that thought Jesus was a nice guy but were indifferent toward the issue of his divinity. Throughout history this name went on to describe what would now be called orthodox believers in Jesus. Now these groups may have splintered over some due to disagreements on particular issues buth they were unified in that they didn't deny the faith through heretical doctrines. Would it be appropriate if I decided to call myself of Muslim even though I don't believe Mohammed is a prophet? After all, the word muslim translated means "submission to God". I try to submit to God. Why shouldn't I take take that name? Because words are buckets that are filled with meaning. Somebody filled that bucket already. Who am I to dump their water and fill it with my own? In the same way, I think people that think Jesus was cool dude but don't view him as God should qualify their statement of beliefs with something distinguishing themselves as being separate from the actual Church.

Your blatant hypocrisy is most refreshing.

 

[Scuba Pete]

A dishonest Christian. Unfortunately, that's just all too common!

There is only one scripture that identifies how to tell the real McCoy from a fake:

John 13:34 “A new command I give you: Love one another. As I have loved you, so you must love one another. 35 By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you love one another.” NIV