The efficacy of rituals/magik/witchcraft

[Surya Deva]

Hi,

I am interested in understanding more about ritual, especially from the point of view of majik and witchcraft. Why are rituals done and do they actually work? I would be interested in others experiences with rituals and the kind of results they get, and how can they be sure that the result was caused by the ritual?
Also, why do you think ritual works?

 

[Quintessence]

The purpose of a ritual can truly be anything imaginable. I usually reserve the word "ritual" for arts that honor the gods, but others will also use the term for any kind of structured ordeal that is repeated over time to the point of being tradition. On that note, part of the efficacy of ritual arises because of the structure and the repetition. A ritual will be structured in a way that enhances its goal. Much of that centers around getting yourself into the proper mindset, and there are all sorts of effective ways of doing that.

For example, a typical ritual will involve a statement of intent at the beginning to set your focus on why you are here. They will also often include a statement of how this ritual has been done before, because we humans like tradition. If it's been done before and it worked in the past, than it can work for us again; it primes the ritual for success instead of chancing on something new.

Now, if you're talking ritual in a non-worshipful sense - what I would call spellcraft - that's a different ball of wax.

 

[Sylvan]

I am interested in understanding more about ritual, especially from the point of view of majik and witchcraft. Why are rituals done and do they actually work?

First off OMG please never use the spelling majik again. :sarcastic

As Quint has stated, you need to specify between spellcraft and general ritual, which can have many purposes and myriad definitions. From the fact that you are asking if something 'works' then I assume you are talking about spellcraft. Why they would be done then (works of spellcraft) is to serve a purpose or answer a particular need. Do they work? As a spellcaster of some 20 years now (starting at 13 so...), I like to think that I am not an idiot. If I hadn't had what appeared by all rational (if personal or shared by a small few) perceptions undeniable experiences of the reality of magic I would have quit a long time ago. And so would all the other of magicians and witches who carefully guarded their secrets for much of the history of our species at regular risk of persecution and death. Now.. just now.. I am starting to see true consistency in result with my practice and also roads are opening to learning more. Its an exciting time... if a bit hairy.

Also.. I believe that it will likely be impossible to demonstrate an act of true magic in a scientific setting with double blind reproducible results for at least another few generations. The process is far too dependent on subtle capabilities and positions within the consciousness of the magician(s) unmeasurable by reproducible or meaningful ratios. There may be experiments designed which demonstrate magical principles unconsciously 'worked' by groups of people as a byproduct of social processes, but I leave those for others to design. Science is not my calling like it was my fathers.

I would be interested in others experiences with rituals and the kind of results they get,

Got a few years? I have included many things in my posts here. I will also say that upon a recent housing crisis, where an unexpected circumstance caused me to be wondering where I was going to be living in a month a phone call came out of the blue and lead me to the IDEAL situation for my remaining time in the states. I didn't post one housing application or look at one Craigslist ad. My only house hunting was by word of mouth. But I had done a working where I tasked a particular spirit to find a good place for me to live with a number of criteria. She did a bang up job.. the only problem being that I forgot to make sure she found me a place with a bathtub.. :sad4:

I don't really think one should start working magic with the goal of having amazing things happen to you when you ask them to without lifting a finger. Actually most magic will require a good amount of hard work to manifest.. particularly in the beginning. But when you can pull something off like that every once in a while its pretty neato.

and how can they be sure that the result was caused by the ritual?

You can't. And I think that thinking too much about this will mess up your results. Unlike some ridiculous new agers who clearly haven't tried it themselves, you don't have to fully believe that the magic is going to work to do it and make it work. And if it doesn't work then "I didn't believe in it enough" is the dumbest and lamest excuse possible. As I have said before there is a part of my inner voice which is the best approximation of a rational skeptic I can come up with who has been convinced that if this is all some elaborate psychosis.. than it is a compelling one.. and far more pleasant than most other apparent psychosis including the one touted as "consensual reality".

Also, why do you think ritual works?

I think we co-evolved with a bunch of spirits some of whom are also ba-relief style impressions of all our dead relatives and everybody and everything else. We evolved a connection to ... something.. being referred to in mystic literature as the Overmind/'God'.. etc..which due to its nature receives and maintains those impressions. The actions that we took in the past to interact with this thing and all its complexities became gradually "blindered" by higher complexities in language-mediated thought eventually leading to the perception of Self. Also, over time, the development of denser social organisation and its associated 'etheric structures' (also known as 'control structures' a la WS Burroughs) the interactions with these things/Thing became monopolized by the magic of the state, royal blood, "political philosophy", etc. Ritual is kind of a dress-up game/dance we play to get back to those pure and effective means of communicating/interacting with this Overmind and its emanations in the forms of these spirits.. who also in an inexplicable fashion co-exist with the chaotic process that surrounds natural phenomena.. the fall of water in a waterfall.. winds of a dust devil.. etc...

 

[Surya Deva]

Thank you Quint and Sylvan, especially you Sylvan for such an exhaustive reply

Also.. I believe that it will likely be impossible to demonstrate an act of true magic in a scientific setting with double blind reproducible results for at least another few generations. The process is far too dependent on subtle capabilities and positions within the consciousness of the magician(s) unmeasurable by reproducible or meaningful ratios. There may be experiments designed which demonstrate magical principles unconsciously 'worked' by groups of people as a byproduct of social processes, but I leave those for others to design. Science is not my calling like it was my fathers.

Yes, I understand this is known as the goat effect in parapsychology how skepticism of the experimenter or the expectations can interfere with the process.

However, is there some experiment I can do personally to try and manifest a certain outcome using magik ritual? I must say I am not very ritualistic and I feel silly even doing rituals within my own Hindu religion. Will my lack of belief in ritual affect the efficacy of the ritual?

Can you recommend a simple and basic ritual I can do?

 

[Surya Deva]

I understand there have been some experiments done on directed intentionality where focussed intention or thought is transmitted to somebody in a remote place and measurements are taken of their physiology and effects on and I think the results are certainly statistically significant. I wonder then is ritual really a ritualized manner of directing intentionality and the efficacy of it is because the ritual enhances the the power of the intention by sanctifying it or making it special in the mind of the practitioner? Thus would that not imply that ones belief in ritual does actually matter in how efficacious it is?
Although you said belief does not actually matter, just how well the ritual is performed?

 

[Sylvan]

That is certainly one way of thinking about it.

If you are serious about wanting to try a magic experiment come up with a reasonable effect to manifest. Something in your life you want changed. Because I hold to some level of silence effecting the result PM me what you decide, and I will give you (through PM) a simple procedure combining candle, sigil, and planetary hour.

Also describe here the extent of your personal religious beliefs. If you are Hindu, what stripe? To you resonate with any of the deities particularly? Why do you hold to a religion which has such a rich heritage of beautiful rituals if you don't believe in them?

 

[Surya Deva]

I am Advaitin Hindu, which is a non-dualist branch of Hinduism which accepts only Brahman meaning the infinite, eternal consciousness as the only reality, while everything else including universe, individual souls and God are seen as illusions. The Advaitins path is Gnostic through contemplation and meditation we aim to gain knowledge of our true reality and dissolve our ego and realize the ultimate reality.

In Advaita rituals are not seen as important isofar as the ultimate goal of liberation because the cause of ones bondage is identified as ignorance and hence the solution to ending bondage is the inverse knowledge. When the Advaitin purifies their mind through constant contemplation and meditation on the supreme reality, knowledge is awakened.

 

[Surya Deva]

Although I have no explicit belief in deity, the deity Shiva is one I am drawn to the strongest.