The Failed Messiah Crusades

[EtuMalku]

If I press on the link, will I be magically transported to a site that lists dozens if not more of occasions in which it was testified that Herod was raised as a Jew and lived the life of a practicing Jew?

Maybe . . . maybe not . . . he he he

 

[EtuMalku]

If I press on the link, will I be magically transported to a site that lists dozens if not more of occasions in which it was testified that Herod was raised as a Jew and lived the life of a practicing Jew?

So let me ask you this, it's fact that Yeshua was born a Jew. So, what made him Christian or not Jewish at the very least?

 

[Harel13]

Maybe . . . maybe not . . . he he he

So I checked out the last link. Yes, I read everything. I didn't see any evidence, despite the claim at the bottom that there is evidence. I find the following statement incredibly problematic though:
"and on the whole his reign was beneficial to the Jewish people and religion"
- this is untrue, though I am willing to accept that this is also the point in which historians proceed to duke it out.

So let me ask you this, it's fact that Yeshua was born a Jew. So, what made him Christian or not Jewish at the very least?

Well, he wasn't Christian because there was no Christianity for decades and perhaps even centuries after his death (depends on who he was and when exactly he lived).
He was Jewish because he was ethnically Jewish. He was born into a Jewish family. More importantly, his mother was Jewish.

 

[EtuMalku]

So I checked out the last link. Yes, I read everything. I didn't see any evidence, despite the claim at the bottom that there is evidence. I find the following statement incredibly problematic though:
"and on the whole his reign was beneficial to the Jewish people and religion"
- this is untrue, though I am willing to accept that this is also the point in which historians proceed to duke it out.

Well, he wasn't Christian because there was no Christianity for decades and perhaps even centuries after his death (depends on who he was and when exactly he lived).
He was Jewish because he was ethnically Jewish. He was born into a Jewish family. More importantly, his mother was Jewish.

I see no scientific evidence that Jewish is an ethnicity. It's a practice.

 

[Harel13]

I see no scientific evidence that Jewish is an ethnicity. It's a practice.

So Jesus and Herod, and Paul as well, for that matter, weren't Jewish. Okay.
I'll be leaving now. Have a good week.

 

[EtuMalku]

So Jesus and Herod, and Paul as well, for that matter, weren't Jewish. Okay.
I'll be leaving now. Have a good week.

Leaving for the whole week? Was it something I said

 

[Harel13]

Leaving for the whole week? Was it something I said

No, just leaving the thread. Yes, it was the circular arguing. And I'll be too busy tomorrow to continue the circular arguing, as enjoyable as it was. It's also customary to wish people a good week at the end of the Jewish Shabbat, which is what is now here in Israel. So good week and good luck with your thread.

 

[Trailblazer]

Wait a second. What is wrong with abortion? We have abortion is Sweden, and no trace of any damage.

The damage is to the soul that was aborted and thus never had a chance to live but I prefer not to go down that road on this forum.

Same with homosexual marriages, sexual freedom, etc. with all those things, we are faring pretty well. You should allow them in your country, too.

I prefer not to go down that road of sexual freedom. I do not believe it is good for society as a whole. The following quotes summarize the reasons I hold that opinion.

'Amongst the many other evils afflicting society in this spiritual low water mark in history is the question of immorality, and over-emphasis of sex...'

This indicates how the whole matter of sex and the problems related to it have assumed far too great an importance in the thinking of present-day society.
Lights of Guidance (second part): A Bahá'í Reference File, pp. 364-365

“The proper use of the sex instinct is the natural right of every individual, and it is precisely for this very purpose that the institution of marriage has been established. The Bahá'ís do not believe in the suppression of the sex impulse but in its regulation and control.”
Lights of Guidance (second part): A Bahá'í Reference File, pp. 364-365

The following law is from Bahá'u'lláh's Book of Laws.

“The Bahá’í teachings on sexual morality centre on marriage and the family as the bedrock of the whole structure of human society and are designed to protect and strengthen that divine institution. Bahá’í law thus restricts permissible sexual intercourse to that between a man and the woman to whom he is married.” The Kitáb-i-Aqdas, p. 223

I think you are arbitrarily defining what is wrong and what is right in order to support your case. In the interest of precision, when you claim something as morally wrong, you should add “in my opinion”.

No, I do not arbitrarily define right and wrong. In my opinion and according to my beliefs God sets those standards through His Laws. See above.

 

[EtuMalku]

The damage is to the soul that was aborted and thus never had a chance to live but I prefer not to go down that road on this forum.

I prefer not to go down that road of sexual freedom. I do not believe it is good for society as a whole. The following quotes summarize the reasons I hold that opinion.

'Amongst the many other evils afflicting society in this spiritual low water mark in history is the question of immorality, and over-emphasis of sex...'

This indicates how the whole matter of sex and the problems related to it have assumed far too great an importance in the thinking of present-day society.
Lights of Guidance (second part): A Bahá'í Reference File, pp. 364-365

“The proper use of the sex instinct is the natural right of every individual, and it is precisely for this very purpose that the institution of marriage has been established. The Bahá'ís do not believe in the suppression of the sex impulse but in its regulation and control.”
Lights of Guidance (second part): A Bahá'í Reference File, pp. 364-365

The following law is from Bahá'u'lláh's Book of Laws.

“The Bahá’í teachings on sexual morality centre on marriage and the family as the bedrock of the whole structure of human society and are designed to protect and strengthen that divine institution. Bahá’í law thus restricts permissible sexual intercourse to that between a man and the woman to whom he is married.” The Kitáb-i-Aqdas, p. 223

No, I do not arbitrarily define right and wrong. In my opinion and according to my beliefs God sets those standards through His Laws. See above.

Soul? LOL . . . please.

 

[blü 2]

By the first century A.D., the Jews were looking for strong, magnetic leaders who could deliver them from the wrath of the Roman Empire. The Essenes developed the idea of a messiah figure that would provide this. Several Jewish leaders were set to take over after the death of the Jewish King Herod, who primarily worked for the Romans. To qualify as a messiah, someone needed to be from the bloodline of King David. None of the descendants of King David and their misled disciples succeeded, and most were killed.

While these messiah figures drew support from the claim they descended from King David, wherein Judaic tradition did this claim that Davidic pedigree was necessary to become a Messiah come from? When King David ruled Israel (circa 10th century B.C.E.), the conviction arose that his progeny would “rule forever, not only over Israel but also over all the nations”.

One that stands out is a former slave of King Herod by the name of Simon of Perea. Simon was the first heretical Jew who managed to convince a large portion of the Jews that he was the King of Jews and Jehova's Messiah. When the Roman Empire caught wind of this they dispatched military units to put an end to this claim. They would eventually corner and behead Simon in 4 B.C.

Anthronges was another deified Messiah who waged a serious war against the Roman Empire and also lost. Next came Yeshua the Nazarene. Proclaiming himself king of the Jews, Yeshua was eventually hunted down and crucified. Oddly enough, Yeshua was far from a warrior, would never be able to lead men in battle or control the logistics of a military campaign. Had King David met Yeshua, he would have been greatly disappointed with the gentle ideas of this self-proclaimed messiah.

New Testament scholar, Bart Ehrman, eloquently stated:
"To call Jesus the messiah was for most Jews completely ludicrous. Jesus was not the powerful leader of the Jews. He was a weak and powerless nobody—executed in the most humiliating and painful way devised by the Romans, the ones with the real power.”

After Yeshua there came a dozen other Messianic campaigns, none of which are publicized by the Abrahamic faith, and all of which ultimately failed. Theudas in 58 C.E., Menachem ben Judah ben Hezekiah, Simon ben Kosevah, Moses of Crete, Abu Isa, Al-Ra'i" ("the shepherd of the flock of his people"), Saüra the Syrian, to name a few.

Ultimately, there has never been a true Jewish messiah because they all failed in their missions and were killed by the Romans. Yeshua (Jesus) failed as a messiah and stood in a long line of failed messiahs.

The five main versions of Jesus in the NT are, in chronological order of appearance, those of Paul (50s CE), then the respective authors of Mark (c. 75 CE), Matthew, Luke (80s CE) and John (90s CE).

The author of Mark tells us that Jesus was not descended from David (Mark 12:35-37).

Each of the other authors says their Jesus was indeed descended from David (Paul, Romans 1:3; Matthew 1:6; Luke 3:31; John 7:42) ─ though as is notorious, Matthew and Luke would have to be claiming that God too was descended from David for their fictive and incompatible genealogies to have any chance of making sense.

Never let the facts get in the way ... or in this case, the "facts".

 

[EtuMalku]

The five main versions of Jesus in the NT are, in chronological order of appearance, those of Paul (50s CE), then the respective authors of Mark (c. 75 CE), Matthew, Luke (80s CE) and John (90s CE).

The author of Mark tells us that Jesus was not descended from David (Mark 12:35-37).

Each of the other authors says their Jesus was indeed descended from David (Paul, Romans 1:3; Matthew 1:6; Luke 3:31; John 7:42) ─ though as is notorious, Matthew and Luke would have to be claiming that God too was descended from David for their fictive and incompatible genealogies to have any chance of making sense.

Never let the facts get in the way ... or in this case, the "facts".

Double Messiah fail?

 

[Trailblazer]

Double Messiah fail?

No, neither one failed.

 

[EtuMalku]

No, neither one failed.

Wouldn't you think a little lie here and there might help things out in the long run? we barely know who 'wrote' any od the Christian bible, much less if any of it is true.

 

[EtuMalku]

No, neither one failed.

"
Matthew and Luke give us two different genealogies for Jesus"
A hopeless Bible contradiction? Why do Matthew and Luke give us two different genealogies for Jesus? | Is Jesus Alive?

 

[Trailblazer]

we barely know who 'wrote' any of the Christian bible, much less if any of it is true.

That's true.

 

[Trailblazer]

"
Matthew and Luke give us two different genealogies for Jesus"
A hopeless Bible contradiction? Why do Matthew and Luke give us two different genealogies for Jesus? | Is Jesus Alive?

Even if the Bible is unreliable that does not mean Jesus failed.

 

[EtuMalku]

Even if the Bible is unreliable that does not mean Jesus failed.

Wut . . .

 

[rational experiences]

O earths it's heavens existed

So did nature and humans.

No thesis about it. So humans said trust and accept.

Reason to say the quote.....brothers chose to become theists and scientists.

The reason.

No slaves existed. Family as self supported group relationships existed. Trade was by families talent.

Brothers as I want to be status like the wise and old. Egotists

Agreed.. formed the bullies. Allow me to do what I want. The threat loss of life.

Humans innocent meek loving

Human natural history.

Civilization built by families slavery technology destroyed it.

Family set free by earth as a God cause. Destruction of technology the teaching.

Humans equal. Are our own heroes. Are not weak or of purpose defeated. In life there is more family than rich greedy human liars.

Pretty basic human advice. Know your own story. Realise how bullies just human took away human rights. And set it right today whilst you still can.

 

[EtuMalku]

O earths it's heavens existed

So did nature and humans.

No thesis about it. So humans said trust and accept.

Reason to say the quote.....brothers chose to become theists and scientists.

The reason.

No slaves existed. Family as self supported group relationships existed. Trade was by families talent.

Brothers as I want to be status like the wise and old. Egotists

Agreed.. formed the bullies. Allow me to do what I want. The threat loss of life.

Humans innocent meek loving

Human natural history.

Civilization built by families slavery technology destroyed it.

Family set free by earth as a God cause. Destruction of technology the teaching.

Humans equal. Are our own heroes. Are not weak or of purpose defeated. In life there is more family than rich greedy human liars.

Pretty basic human advice. Know your own story. Realise how bullies just human took away human rights. And set it right today whilst you still can.

 

[Trailblazer]

Wut . . .

The Bible is an unreliable source.