The Folly of Atheism

[usfan]

I am always intrigued at the attention given to philosophical beliefs, and the dogmatic confidence some have in those beliefs. Many religious beliefs are examined, criticised, ridiculed & psychoanalyzed in this forum, but not much is given to atheism The title may put some off, but since the 'folly of religion' is a constant topic here on the forum, i thought it only fair to consider the folly of atheism.

And, since there is a disproportionately high number of vocal, proactive atheists here, a light hearted look at atheism should be welcome relief from the seriousness and intensity that some display.

A false dilemma
A false dilemma is a type of informal fallacy in which something is falsely claimed to be an "either/or" situation, when in fact there is at least one additional option. (from wiki)

The dilemma presented is usually like this:

'If you cannot prove God's existence, then He does not exist!'

But, there are other possibilities, not just the 'either/or' of this dilemma.

1. God may have reasons, unknown to us, for not presenting a conspicuous presence.
2. God may reveal to some, but leave others wondering.
3. The Majesty and holiness of God may be too much for sinful man to observe, so God waits, to give opportunity to be reconciled.
4. Something has blinded the awareness of humans, so they are unable to perceive spiritual reality.
5. God does not reveal Himself, because He does not exist.

We do not have enough evidence, individually, to categorically declare one of these possibilities as 'truth!', and dismiss all others. Therefore, this argument is fallacious, based on a false dilemma.

 

[lewisnotmiller]

I am always intrigued at the attention given to philosophical beliefs, and the dogmatic confidence some have in those beliefs. Many religious beliefs are examined, criticised, ridiculed & psychoanalyzed in this forum, but not much is given to atheism The title may put some off, but since the 'folly of religion' is a constant topic here on the forum, i thought it only fair to consider the folly of atheism.

And, since there is a disproportionately high number of vocal, proactive atheists here, a light hearted look at atheism should be welcome relief from the seriousness and intensity that some display.

A false dilemma
A false dilemma is a type of informal fallacy in which something is falsely claimed to be an "either/or" situation, when in fact there is at least one additional option. (from wiki)

The dilemma presented is usually like this:

'If you cannot prove God's existence, then He does not exist!'

But, there are other possibilities, not just the 'either/or' of this dilemma.

1. God may have reasons, unknown to us, for not presenting a conspicuous presence.
2. God may reveal to some, but leave others wondering.
3. The Majesty and holiness of God may be too much for sinful man to observe, so God waits, to give opportunity to be reconciled.
4. Something has blinded the awareness of humans, so they are unable to perceive spiritual reality.
5. God does not reveal Himself, because He does not exist.

We do not have enough evidence, individually, to categorically declare one of these possibilities as 'truth!', and dismiss all others. Therefore, this argument is fallacious, based on a false dilemma.

This was a 'light-hearted' look?
Sheesh.

Give me 24 hours, I'll give them heathens something lighthearted to make them think.

 

[Altfish]

I am always intrigued at the attention given to philosophical beliefs, and the dogmatic confidence some have in those beliefs. Many religious beliefs are examined, criticised, ridiculed & psychoanalyzed in this forum, but not much is given to atheism The title may put some off, but since the 'folly of religion' is a constant topic here on the forum, i thought it only fair to consider the folly of atheism.

And, since there is a disproportionately high number of vocal, proactive atheists here, a light hearted look at atheism should be welcome relief from the seriousness and intensity that some display.

A false dilemma
A false dilemma is a type of informal fallacy in which something is falsely claimed to be an "either/or" situation, when in fact there is at least one additional option. (from wiki)

The dilemma presented is usually like this:

'If you cannot prove God's existence, then He does not exist!'

But, there are other possibilities, not just the 'either/or' of this dilemma.

1. God may have reasons, unknown to us, for not presenting a conspicuous presence.
2. God may reveal to some, but leave others wondering.
3. The Majesty and holiness of God may be too much for sinful man to observe, so God waits, to give opportunity to be reconciled.
4. Something has blinded the awareness of humans, so they are unable to perceive spiritual reality.
5. God does not reveal Himself, because He does not exist.

We do not have enough evidence, individually, to categorically declare one of these possibilities as 'truth!', and dismiss all others. Therefore, this argument is fallacious, based on a false dilemma.

Firstly, most atheists think something along the lines of...
“I can find no evidence for god’s existence therefore I’ll live my life assuming she does not exist”

Going through the list of 5-reasons…

1. That is the same with the Flying Spaghetti Monster and Fairies, it is a pretty poor reason.

2. True, but again, is she not the ‘god of all’ why does she have her chosen ones?

3. Grief, we are scraping the barrel, think she may have a long wait.

4. Blinded us humans… must be alcohol and drugs and homosexuality, I suppose.

5. This is by far the best explanation, I’m struggling to find fault with it

 

[usfan]

Firstly, most atheists think something along the lines of...
“I can find no evidence for god’s existence therefore I’ll live my life assuming she does not exist”
Going through the list of 5-reasons…
1. That is the same with the Flying Spaghetti Monster and Fairies, it is a pretty poor reason.
2. True, but again, is she not the ‘god of all’ why does she have her chosen ones?

3. Grief, we are scraping the barrel, think she may have a long wait.

4. Blinded us humans… must be alcohol and drugs and homosexuality, I suppose.

5. This is by far the best explanation, I’m struggling to find fault with it

Are these not 5 logical possibilities? The Silence of God, if we assume that, could be due to these, and perhaps other, possibilities:

1. God may have reasons, unknown to us, for not presenting a conspicuous presence.
2. God may reveal to some, but leave others wondering.
3. The Majesty and holiness of God may be too much for sinful man to observe, so God waits, to give opportunity to be reconciled.
4. Something has blinded the awareness of humans, so they are unable to perceive spiritual reality.
5. God does not reveal Himself, because He does not exist.

It is a false dilemma, that non-perception of God can only mean nonexistence. There are other possibilities.

 

[Mock Turtle]

I am always intrigued at the attention given to philosophical beliefs, and the dogmatic confidence some have in those beliefs. Many religious beliefs are examined, criticised, ridiculed & psychoanalyzed in this forum, but not much is given to atheism The title may put some off, but since the 'folly of religion' is a constant topic here on the forum, i thought it only fair to consider the folly of atheism.

And, since there is a disproportionately high number of vocal, proactive atheists here, a light hearted look at atheism should be welcome relief from the seriousness and intensity that some display.

A false dilemma
A false dilemma is a type of informal fallacy in which something is falsely claimed to be an "either/or" situation, when in fact there is at least one additional option. (from wiki)

The dilemma presented is usually like this:

'If you cannot prove God's existence, then He does not exist!'

But, there are other possibilities, not just the 'either/or' of this dilemma.

1. God may have reasons, unknown to us, for not presenting a conspicuous presence.

But we seem to ascribe properties to this 'God' with very little hesitation it seems.

2. God may reveal to some, but leave others wondering.

Oh, how convenient. Sounds very like a market-stall trick to me - as in, buy these at just $1.99.

3. The Majesty and holiness of God may be too much for sinful man to observe, so God waits, to give opportunity to be reconciled.

God will be waiting a long while methinks.

4. Something has blinded the awareness of humans, so they are unable to perceive spiritual reality.

Only those of us who fail to experience such, it seems. Or are not gullible enough to believe that any of these experiences are beyond explanation other than being religious in nature.

5. God does not reveal Himself, because He does not exist.

Quite possible - which is what I tend to believe. More possibilities:

6. God is a joker - monkeying around with us. Even to the extent of forming us from the same line as all the other primates. Ooh, ooh!

7. God is too busy elsewhere - the universe being so big after all - and He'll will be back in a few millennia to check up on us - His 4003rd creation.

8. God has forgotten about us, or has decided we were a mistake anyway and has abandoned us.

9. God has died - the work was too much for Him.

10. God can't be bothered - since we are nothing to Him.

Is that light-hearted enough?

 

[Subduction Zone]

Perhaps the OP should learn what atheism is. Then he would not have to rely on strawman arguments.

 

[JJ50]

I am always intrigued at the attention given to philosophical beliefs, and the dogmatic confidence some have in those beliefs. Many religious beliefs are examined, criticised, ridiculed & psychoanalyzed in this forum, but not much is given to atheism The title may put some off, but since the 'folly of religion' is a constant topic here on the forum, i thought it only fair to consider the folly of atheism.

And, since there is a disproportionately high number of vocal, proactive atheists here, a light hearted look at atheism should be welcome relief from the seriousness and intensity that some display.

A false dilemma
A false dilemma is a type of informal fallacy in which something is falsely claimed to be an "either/or" situation, when in fact there is at least one additional option. (from wiki)

The dilemma presented is usually like this:

'If you cannot prove God's existence, then He does not exist!'

But, there are other possibilities, not just the 'either/or' of this dilemma.

1. God may have reasons, unknown to us, for not presenting a conspicuous presence.
2. God may reveal to some, but leave others wondering.
3. The Majesty and holiness of God may be too much for sinful man to observe, so God waits, to give opportunity to be reconciled.
4. Something has blinded the awareness of humans, so they are unable to perceive spiritual reality.
5. God does not reveal Himself, because He does not exist.

We do not have enough evidence, individually, to categorically declare one of these possibilities as 'truth!', and dismiss all others. Therefore, this argument is fallacious, based on a false dilemma.

If the god character exists why does it hide away instead of putting in an appearance?

 

[Revoltingest]

Many religious beliefs are examined, criticised, ridiculed & psychoanalyzed in this forum, but not much is given to atheism

Perhaps because you're new here, you've not noticed the great
many threads detailing our shortcomings. We've been given much
generous advice & criticism by or fundie friends.

'If you cannot prove God's existence, then He does not exist!'

I don't recall a post claiming this.
Could you link one you're thinking of?

 

[usfan]

If the god character exists why does it hide away instead of putting in an appearance?

I don't know..

There are many plausible possibilities..

Why fixate on 'there is no God, because i can't see Him!', as the only possible one?

 

[JJ50]

I don't know..

There are many plausible possibilities..

Why fixate on 'there is no God, because i can't see Him!', as the only possible one?

If it exists it is an evil psycho if unbelief has dire consequences.

 

[Altfish]

It is a false dilemma, that non-perception of God can only mean nonexistence. There are other possibilities.

OK, give me one.

 

[usfan]

Perhaps because you're new here, you've not noticed the great
many threads detailing our shortcomings. We've been given much
generous advice & criticism by or fundie friends.

I don't recall a post claiming this.
Could you link one you're thinking of?

I've mostly noticed deluges of threads promoting caricatures and false narratives of Christianity.. not much existential philosophizing going on.. just dogmatic assertions from True Believers.

You've never heard that argument? 'I cannot perceive God, therefore He does not exist!'? That is the central argument of atheism, it seems..

What is your basis for a conclusion of 'no God', if not a lack of personal corroboration?

 

[usfan]

OK, give me one.

I gave you 5..

 

[usfan]

If it exists it is an evil psycho if unbelief has dire consequences.

..this seems like irrational hostility, not philosophical consideration..

 

[JJ50]

..this seems like irrational hostility, not philosophical consideration..

Of course I am hostile if unbelief has bad consequences.

 

[Altfish]

I gave you 5..

They were not viable possibilities, just excuses for her non-appearance.

 

[usfan]

1. God may have reasons, unknown to us, for not presenting a conspicuous presence.

But we seem to ascribe properties to this 'God' with very little hesitation it seems.

2. God may reveal to some, but leave others wondering.

Oh, how convenient. Sounds very like a market-stall trick to me - as in, buy these at just $1.99.

3. The Majesty and holiness of God may be too much for sinful man to observe, so God waits, to give opportunity to be reconciled.

God will be waiting a long while methinks.

4. Something has blinded the awareness of humans, so they are unable to perceive spiritual reality.

Only those of us who fail to experience such, it seems. Or are not gullible enough to believe that any of these experiences are beyond explanation other than being religious in nature.

5. God does not reveal Himself, because He does not exist.

Quite possible - which is what I tend to believe. More possibilities:

6. God is a joker - monkeying around with us. Even to the extent of forming us from the same line as all the other primates. Ooh, ooh!

7. God is too busy elsewhere - the universe being so big after all - and He'll will be back in a few millennia to check up on us - His 4003rd creation.

8. God has forgotten about us, or has decided we were a mistake anyway and has abandoned us.

9. God has died - the work was too much for Him.
10. God can't be bothered - since we are nothing to Him.
Is that light-hearted enough?

Yes, those are other possibilities.. phrased in derogatory terminology, but still logical possibilities, with some overlap.

And these possibilities refute the 'no empirical evidence? = no God!' dichotomy as a false dilemma. You confirm my point. Thanks.

 

[Revoltingest]

I've mostly noticed deluges of threads promoting caricatures and false narratives of Christianity.. not much existential philosophizing going on.. just dogmatic assertions from True Believers.

Check who is posting them.
You might find that very few are, or even just one is doing this.

You've never heard that argument? 'I cannot perceive God, therefore He does not exist!'? That is the central argument of atheism, it seems..

I've heard of it....but generally from Christians who
mistakenly think it's a common belief among atheists.

What is your basis for a conclusion of 'no God', if not a lack of personal corroboration?

Looking at things rigorously, it's impossible to prove there are no gods.
So I disbelieve in them.
To say they cannot exist...that's not verifiable.

 

[usfan]

Perhaps the OP should learn what atheism is. Then he would not have to rely on strawman arguments.

Ah, the Definition Nazis have arrived!

Dismissal by definition? Ignorance by decree? Pretended secret insight as to what some term 'really means!'?

..can't have a forum discussion without them!

 

[usfan]

Of course I am hostile if unbelief has bad consequences.

why do you believe this? Why have hostility for somebody else's beliefs? If everyone was 'hostile' toward any dissenting beliefs, there would only be war and conflict. Why not try toleration and freedom of conscience?

They were not viable possibilities, just excuses for her non-appearance.

Well, IF.. there IS a God, then disbelief isn't a very viable possibility.. it would be a major misperception of reality.

You merely view the other possibilities through a bias of atheism..