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The Founding Father’s did not want the Nation’s government to be run by religion

Redneck Mystic

Active Member


Today is the 248th anniversary of the signing of Colonial America’s Declaration of Independence, which begins:

In Congress, July 4, 1776
The unanimous Declaration of the thirteen united States of America
When in the Course of human events, it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another, and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation.
We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.
Then follows a l-o-n-g list of the Colonists’ grievances against the King of England, which I do not include here.

Then comes the the declaration of independence:

We, therefore, the Representatives of the united States of America, in General Congress, Assembled, appealing to the Supreme Judge of the world for the rectitude of our intentions, do, in the Name, and by Authority of the good People of these Colonies, solemnly publish and declare, That these United Colonies are, and of Right ought to be Free and Independent States; that they are Absolved from all Allegiance to the British Crown, and that all political connection between them and the State of Great Britain, is and ought to be totally dissolved; and that as Free and Independent States, they have full Power to levy War, conclude Peace, contract Alliances, establish Commerce, and to do all other Acts and Things which Independent States may of right do. And for the support of this Declaration, with a firm reliance on the protection of divine Providence, we mutually pledge to each other our Lives, our Fortunes and our sacred Honor.
Then come the signatures of the men who signed the document.

I highlighted in bold the 4 references to a Deity from which the signers of the Declaration of Independence drew their authority.

There is no mention of Christianity in the Declaration of Independence, whose principal author, Thomas Jefferson, was a Deist.

Many of the signers of the Declaration of Independence were Free Masons.

The 4 references to Deity do not resemble Christian names for God.

Amendment 1, US Constitution:

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.
The Founding Fathers were acutely aware of how governments in Europe and the British Isles had become one with the Church and had persecuted, imprisoned and killed “heretics”. The Founding Fathers did not want that to happen in America. Thus, Amendment 1’s, "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof”.

After the Revolutionary War, the “Give me liberty, or give me death” signer of the Declaration of Independence, Patrick Henry, became the Governor of Virginia. He tried to get the Virginia Legislature to pass a law that effectively would make Christianity the state religion of Virgina. Thomas Jefferson and another signer of the Declaration of Independence, James Madison, who would become known as the Father of the Constitution and America’s 4th president, led the charge to defeat Patrick Henry's law.

Later, Jefferson cut out of his own Bible passages from the New Testament about things Jesus said, which Jefferson liked, and he made them into his own bible, which became known as The Jefferson Bible. The passages Jefferson liked were about living life differently, much easier to say than do.

Amendment 14, Section 1, US Constitution, made the Constitution and Amendments 1-10, known as the Bill of Rights, applicable to the States:

No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.
Every anti-abortionist I have known was a religious-right Christian. In the law is the doctrine, res ipsa loquitur, the thing speaks for itself.

Recently, Louisiana’s state legislature passed a law requiring The Ten Commandments to be displayed in Louisiana’s public schools. The Ten Commandments are part of the Jewish Scriptures and are in the Old Testament of Christendom’s Bible. How the 6 religious-right Justices on the US Supreme Court will rule on what Louisiana did is anyone’s guess.

Once upon a time, the Chief Justice of the Alabama Supreme Court, Roy Moore, a far-right Christian, had the 10 Commandments installed in the Alabama Supreme Court building in Montgomery, the state Capital. During the Civil War, Montgomery was the Capital of the Confederacy after it was moved there from Richmond, Virginia.

From Wikipedia:

Moore attended West Point and served as a company commander in the Military Police Corpsduring the Vietnam War. After graduating from the University of Alabama Law School, he joined the Etowah County district attorney's office, serving as an assistant district attorney from 1977 to 1982. In 1992, he was appointed as a circuit judge by Governor Guy Hunt to fill a vacancy, and was elected to the position at the next term. In 2001, Moore was elected to the position of chief justice of the Supreme Court of Alabama. Moore was removed from his position in November 2003 by the Alabama Court of the Judiciary for refusing a federal court's order to remove a marble monument of the Ten Commandments that he had placed in the rotunda of the Alabama Judicial Building.
Moore's political views have been characterized as far-right and Christian nationalist.[13] He has attracted national media attention and controversy over his views on race, homosexuality, transgender people, and Islam, his belief that Christianity should order public policy,[14][15] and his past ties to neo-Confederate and white-nationalist groups.[16][17][18][19][20] Moore was a leading voice in the "birther" movement, which promoted the false claim that president Barack Obama was not born in the United States.[21][22] He founded the Foundation for Moral Law, a non-profit legal organization from which he collected more than $1 million over five years. On its tax filings, the organization indicated a much lesser amount of pay to Moore.[23]
Clinton McGee was my criminal law professor at the University of Alabama School of law. After graduating from that law school, McGee joined the US Army and was sent to Germany to defend Nazis during the Nuremberg Trials.He was so good at defending Nazis that he was shifted to prosecuting them and they didn’t get off.

Some years after I graduated from the University of Alabama School of Law, Roy Moore enrolled there. Professor McGee nick-named Moore, “Fruitcake”.

During my last semester in law school, my infant son died of sudden infant death syndrome, I was disheveled, unable to think clearly. Professor MeGee told me the law clerk of a US District Judge in Birmingham had quit in the middle of his term with the judge, and I might wish to contact that judge about being his law clerk.

I wrote the judge a letter. He replied, inviting me to come see him. I drove from Tuscaloosa to Birmingham and we met in his chambers and mostly we talked about ourselves and hunting and fishing. He offered me the job. I memorialized him in the first chapter of A Few Remarkable Alabama People I Have Known, “He used to drink moonshine.”

Judge W. Clarence W. Allgood also cussed and did not attend church, and was the most Godly man I ever knew. His graveside service at Elmwood Cemetery in Birmingham was attended my more people than I ever saw at a graveside service.

A Few Remarkable People I Have Known is a free read at the internet library, archive.org, which is run by American colleges. Here’s a link to the free read.

A Few Remarkable Alabama People I Have Known : Sloan Bashinky : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive

It also can be read at this link:

 

Twilight Hue

Twilight, not bright nor dark, good nor bad.


Today is the 248th anniversary of the signing of Colonial America’s Declaration of Independence, which begins:


Then follows a l-o-n-g list of the Colonists’ grievances against the King of England, which I do not include here.

Then comes the the declaration of independence:


Then come the signatures of the men who signed the document.

I highlighted in bold the 4 references to a Deity from which the signers of the Declaration of Independence drew their authority.

There is no mention of Christianity in the Declaration of Independence, whose principal author, Thomas Jefferson, was a Deist.

Many of the signers of the Declaration of Independence were Free Masons.

The 4 references to Deity do not resemble Christian names for God.

Amendment 1, US Constitution:


The Founding Fathers were acutely aware of how governments in Europe and the British Isles had become one with the Church and had persecuted, imprisoned and killed “heretics”. The Founding Fathers did not want that to happen in America. Thus, Amendment 1’s, "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof”.

After the Revolutionary War, the “Give me liberty, or give me death” signer of the Declaration of Independence, Patrick Henry, became the Governor of Virginia. He tried to get the Virginia Legislature to pass a law that effectively would make Christianity the state religion of Virgina. Thomas Jefferson and another signer of the Declaration of Independence, James Madison, who would become known as the Father of the Constitution and America’s 4th president, led the charge to defeat Patrick Henry's law.

Later, Jefferson cut out of his own Bible passages from the New Testament about things Jesus said, which Jefferson liked, and he made them into his own bible, which became known as The Jefferson Bible. The passages Jefferson liked were about living life differently, much easier to say than do.

Amendment 14, Section 1, US Constitution, made the Constitution and Amendments 1-10, known as the Bill of Rights, applicable to the States:


Every anti-abortionist I have known was a religious-right Christian. In the law is the doctrine, res ipsa loquitur, the thing speaks for itself.

Recently, Louisiana’s state legislature passed a law requiring The Ten Commandments to be displayed in Louisiana’s public schools. The Ten Commandments are part of the Jewish Scriptures and are in the Old Testament of Christendom’s Bible. How the 6 religious-right Justices on the US Supreme Court will rule on what Louisiana did is anyone’s guess.

Once upon a time, the Chief Justice of the Alabama Supreme Court, Roy Moore, a far-right Christian, had the 10 Commandments installed in the Alabama Supreme Court building in Montgomery, the state Capital. During the Civil War, Montgomery was the Capital of the Confederacy after it was moved there from Richmond, Virginia.

From Wikipedia:


Clinton McGee was my criminal law professor at the University of Alabama School of law. After graduating from that law school, McGee joined the US Army and was sent to Germany to defend Nazis during the Nuremberg Trials.He was so good at defending Nazis that he was shifted to prosecuting them and they didn’t get off.

Some years after I graduated from the University of Alabama School of Law, Roy Moore enrolled there. Professor McGee nick-named Moore, “Fruitcake”.

During my last semester in law school, my infant son died of sudden infant death syndrome, I was disheveled, unable to think clearly. Professor MeGee told me the law clerk of a US District Judge in Birmingham had quit in the middle of his term with the judge, and I might wish to contact that judge about being his law clerk.

I wrote the judge a letter. He replied, inviting me to come see him. I drove from Tuscaloosa to Birmingham and we met in his chambers and mostly we talked about ourselves and hunting and fishing. He offered me the job. I memorialized him in the first chapter of A Few Remarkable Alabama People I Have Known, “He used to drink moonshine.”

Judge W. Clarence W. Allgood also cussed and did not attend church, and was the most Godly man I ever knew. His graveside service at Elmwood Cemetery in Birmingham was attended my more people than I ever saw at a graveside service.

A Few Remarkable People I Have Known is a free read at the internet library, archive.org, which is run by American colleges. Here’s a link to the free read.

A Few Remarkable Alabama People I Have Known : Sloan Bashinky : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive

It also can be read at this link:
Is this thread actually about Trump, since you intentionally here posted the picture of Trump holding a bible , or is this a supposedly sincere thread to discuss the founding fathers intention to have a nation not run by religion, and not about Trump of which you intentionally posted a picture of him holding up a bible?
 

Argentbear

Well-Known Member
Is this thread actually about Trump, since you intentionally here posted the picture of Trump holding a bible , or is this a supposedly sincere thread to discuss the founding fathers intention to have a nation not run by religion, and not about Trump of which you intentionally posted a picture of him holding up a bible?
a bible he is selling for $60 a pop
 

Evangelicalhumanist

"Truth" isn't a thing...
Premium Member
Is this thread actually about Trump, since you intentionally here posted the picture of Trump holding a bible , or is this a supposedly sincere thread to discuss the founding fathers intention to have a nation not run by religion, and not about Trump of which you intentionally posted a picture of him holding up a bible?
Wouldn't matter. Trump is as religious as I am. Actually, I know my way around the Bible much, much better than he does.
 

Pogo

Well-Known Member
Is this thread actually about Trump, since you intentionally here posted the picture of Trump holding a bible , or is this a supposedly sincere thread to discuss the founding fathers intention to have a nation not run by religion, and not about Trump of which you intentionally posted a picture of him holding up a bible?
It is about people who misunderstand the relationship between the founding of the country and religion and their actions as exemplified in LA and OK and by a "fruitcake" in AL and another who doesn't even know which end is up.
 

crossfire

LHP Mercuræn Feminist Heretic Bully ☿
Premium Member


Today is the 248th anniversary of the signing of Colonial America’s Declaration of Independence, which begins:


Then follows a l-o-n-g list of the Colonists’ grievances against the King of England, which I do not include here.

Then comes the the declaration of independence:


Then come the signatures of the men who signed the document.

I highlighted in bold the 4 references to a Deity from which the signers of the Declaration of Independence drew their authority.

There is no mention of Christianity in the Declaration of Independence, whose principal author, Thomas Jefferson, was a Deist.

Many of the signers of the Declaration of Independence were Free Masons.

The 4 references to Deity do not resemble Christian names for God.
You can effectively even substitute the word "karma" in those places.
Amendment 1, US Constitution:


The Founding Fathers were acutely aware of how governments in Europe and the British Isles had become one with the Church and had persecuted, imprisoned and killed “heretics”. The Founding Fathers did not want that to happen in America. Thus, Amendment 1’s, "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof”.

After the Revolutionary War, the “Give me liberty, or give me death” signer of the Declaration of Independence, Patrick Henry, became the Governor of Virginia. He tried to get the Virginia Legislature to pass a law that effectively would make Christianity the state religion of Virgina. Thomas Jefferson and another signer of the Declaration of Independence, James Madison, who would become known as the Father of the Constitution and America’s 4th president, led the charge to defeat Patrick Henry's law.

Later, Jefferson cut out of his own Bible passages from the New Testament about things Jesus said, which Jefferson liked, and he made them into his own bible, which became known as The Jefferson Bible. The passages Jefferson liked were about living life differently, much easier to say than do.
One would think that Jefferson and Madison knew what was up here, and acted accordingly.
Amendment 14, Section 1, US Constitution, made the Constitution and Amendments 1-10, known as the Bill of Rights, applicable to the States:


Every anti-abortionist I have known was a religious-right Christian. In the law is the doctrine, res ipsa loquitur, the thing speaks for itself.

Recently, Louisiana’s state legislature passed a law requiring The Ten Commandments to be displayed in Louisiana’s public schools. The Ten Commandments are part of the Jewish Scriptures and are in the Old Testament of Christendom’s Bible. How the 6 religious-right Justices on the US Supreme Court will rule on what Louisiana did is anyone’s guess.
Methinks they will strike down the requirement to post them, but will allow them to be voluntarily displayed.
 

Redneck Mystic

Active Member
Is this thread actually about Trump, since you intentionally here posted the picture of Trump holding a bible , or is this a supposedly sincere thread to discuss the founding fathers intention to have a nation not run by religion, and not about Trump of which you intentionally posted a picture of him holding up a bible?
This thread is about what is written in it. Trump necessarily is included, since he stacked the US Supreme Court with religious-right Christians, who overturned Roe v. Wade, and he is selling Bibles and saying he loves the 10 Commandments and wants them in all schools, even though he violated all 10 Commandments, and Trump’s base is dead set on turning American into their version of a Christ9ian nation, which they may well pull off with the 6-3 majority on the US Supreme. Cost, so, if you read the history I provided, you saw the Founding Fathers didn’t want a national government controlled by religion, and they did their best to prevent that from happening.
 

tytlyf

Not Religious
I liked America's original motto. E PLURIBUS UNUM. "Out of many, one" 13 letters representing the original 13 colonies.
Now it's been recently changed to "In God we trust"
I don't trust in God and millions of others don't either. Way to be inclusive...shame on these anti-American crusaders. VOTE
 

Redneck Mystic

Active Member
Wouldn't matter. Trump is as religious as I am. Actually, I know my way around the Bible much, much better than he does.

I liked America's original motto. E PLURIBUS UNUM. "Out of many, one" 13 letters representing the original 13 colonies.
Now it's been recently changed to "In God we trust"
I don't trust in God and millions of others don't either. Way to be inclusive...shame on these anti-American crusaders. VOTE
I agree. Looks to me that claiming In God we Trust, and adding to the Pledge of Allegiance when I was a kid, “under God,” invited God to say, “Oh, yeah?”, and here we are? :) I actually do trust in God, as the result of countless direct experiences, but that doesn’t mean I trust God will intervene and save America from itself, or its karma, nor does it mean God will do what I want God to do.
 

tytlyf

Not Religious
I agree. Looks to me that claiming In God we Trust, and adding to the Pledge of Allegiance when I was a kid, “under God,” invited God to say, “Oh, yeah?”, and here we are? :) I actually do trust in God, as the result of countless direct experiences, but that doesn’t mean I trust God will intervene and save America from itself, or its karma, nor does it mean God will do what I want God to do.
They should never have added that trash to the currency or the pledge. I preferred "One nation, Indivisible, with liberty and justice for all."
And when you ask the religious zealots who support the change, they'll claim "In God we Trust" has nothing to do with religion...
 

beenherebeforeagain

Rogue Animist
Premium Member
They should never have added that trash to the currency or the pledge. I preferred "One nation, Indivisible, with liberty and justice for all."
And when you ask the religious zealots who support the change, they'll claim "In God we Trust" has nothing to do with religion...
I thought it was "One nation indivisible, with liberty and justice for all." with 'indivisible' not being set off by a comma.
 

tytlyf

Not Religious
I thought it was "One nation indivisible, with liberty and justice for all." with 'indivisible' not being set off by a comma.
I won't argue with that, English wasn't my best class in school and it shows. Yes it's my first language. (EDIT: It looks like the comma is there)

In its original form it read:

"I pledge allegiance to my Flag and the Republic for which it stands, one nation, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all."

In 1923, the words, "the Flag of the United States of America" were added. At this time it read:

"I pledge allegiance to the Flag of the United States of America and to the Republic for which it stands, one nation, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all."

In 1954, in response to the Communist threat of the times, President Eisenhower encouraged Congress to add the words "under God," creating the 31-word pledge we say today. Bellamy's daughter objected to this alteration. Today it reads:

"I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America, and to the republic for which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all."
 
Last edited:

Redneck Mystic

Active Member
They should never have added that trash to the currency or the pledge. I preferred "One nation, Indivisible, with liberty and justice for all."
And when you ask the religious zealots who support the change, they'll claim "In God we Trust" has nothing to do with religion...
Congress added “under God” to the Pledge during the Joseph McCaerty see a communist behind every bush era, to boast America was under God and Godless Soviet Union and Red China were not.
 

We Never Know

No Slack


Today is the 248th anniversary of the signing of Colonial America’s Declaration of Independence, which begins:


Then follows a l-o-n-g list of the Colonists’ grievances against the King of England, which I do not include here.

Then comes the the declaration of independence:


Then come the signatures of the men who signed the document.

I highlighted in bold the 4 references to a Deity from which the signers of the Declaration of Independence drew their authority.

There is no mention of Christianity in the Declaration of Independence, whose principal author, Thomas Jefferson, was a Deist.

Many of the signers of the Declaration of Independence were Free Masons.

The 4 references to Deity do not resemble Christian names for God.

Amendment 1, US Constitution:


The Founding Fathers were acutely aware of how governments in Europe and the British Isles had become one with the Church and had persecuted, imprisoned and killed “heretics”. The Founding Fathers did not want that to happen in America. Thus, Amendment 1’s, "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof”.

After the Revolutionary War, the “Give me liberty, or give me death” signer of the Declaration of Independence, Patrick Henry, became the Governor of Virginia. He tried to get the Virginia Legislature to pass a law that effectively would make Christianity the state religion of Virgina. Thomas Jefferson and another signer of the Declaration of Independence, James Madison, who would become known as the Father of the Constitution and America’s 4th president, led the charge to defeat Patrick Henry's law.

Later, Jefferson cut out of his own Bible passages from the New Testament about things Jesus said, which Jefferson liked, and he made them into his own bible, which became known as The Jefferson Bible. The passages Jefferson liked were about living life differently, much easier to say than do.

Amendment 14, Section 1, US Constitution, made the Constitution and Amendments 1-10, known as the Bill of Rights, applicable to the States:


Every anti-abortionist I have known was a religious-right Christian. In the law is the doctrine, res ipsa loquitur, the thing speaks for itself.

Recently, Louisiana’s state legislature passed a law requiring The Ten Commandments to be displayed in Louisiana’s public schools. The Ten Commandments are part of the Jewish Scriptures and are in the Old Testament of Christendom’s Bible. How the 6 religious-right Justices on the US Supreme Court will rule on what Louisiana did is anyone’s guess.

Once upon a time, the Chief Justice of the Alabama Supreme Court, Roy Moore, a far-right Christian, had the 10 Commandments installed in the Alabama Supreme Court building in Montgomery, the state Capital. During the Civil War, Montgomery was the Capital of the Confederacy after it was moved there from Richmond, Virginia.

From Wikipedia:


Clinton McGee was my criminal law professor at the University of Alabama School of law. After graduating from that law school, McGee joined the US Army and was sent to Germany to defend Nazis during the Nuremberg Trials.He was so good at defending Nazis that he was shifted to prosecuting them and they didn’t get off.

Some years after I graduated from the University of Alabama School of Law, Roy Moore enrolled there. Professor McGee nick-named Moore, “Fruitcake”.

During my last semester in law school, my infant son died of sudden infant death syndrome, I was disheveled, unable to think clearly. Professor MeGee told me the law clerk of a US District Judge in Birmingham had quit in the middle of his term with the judge, and I might wish to contact that judge about being his law clerk.

I wrote the judge a letter. He replied, inviting me to come see him. I drove from Tuscaloosa to Birmingham and we met in his chambers and mostly we talked about ourselves and hunting and fishing. He offered me the job. I memorialized him in the first chapter of A Few Remarkable Alabama People I Have Known, “He used to drink moonshine.”

Judge W. Clarence W. Allgood also cussed and did not attend church, and was the most Godly man I ever knew. His graveside service at Elmwood Cemetery in Birmingham was attended my more people than I ever saw at a graveside service.

A Few Remarkable People I Have Known is a free read at the internet library, archive.org, which is run by American colleges. Here’s a link to the free read.

A Few Remarkable Alabama People I Have Known : Sloan Bashinky : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive

It also can be read at this link:
The founding father’s did not want the nation’s government to be ran by greedy, corrupt, power hungry, career politician's either but **** happens.
 

Twilight Hue

Twilight, not bright nor dark, good nor bad.
I liked America's original motto. E PLURIBUS UNUM. "Out of many, one" 13 letters representing the original 13 colonies.
Now it's been recently changed to "In God we trust"
I don't trust in God and millions of others don't either. Way to be inclusive...shame on these anti-American crusaders. VOTE
Yea they can remove "In God we Trust" since the USSR is essentially gone and dissolved now.
 

Twilight Hue

Twilight, not bright nor dark, good nor bad.
They should never have added that trash to the currency or the pledge. I preferred "One nation, Indivisible, with liberty and justice for all."
And when you ask the religious zealots who support the change, they'll claim "In God we Trust" has nothing to do with religion...
It was just to upstage the Soviets.
 
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