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The Frankfurt School and its cultural influence

Estro Felino

Believer in free will
Premium Member
Here Ben Shapiro (fantastic as usual) underlines that this was the most influential philosophical stream in the second half of the 20th century.


It is a nihilistic stream that basically aimed at waging war on culture and traditional values.
It was a war on history.
 

Estro Felino

Believer in free will
Premium Member
As professor Gatto Trocchi used to say: "the elites have willfully created a culture of disruption and chaos in order to create divisions among the people. So that the elites could defraud the people socially, politically and economically".

But fortunately, I add these elites are on the verge of their own downfall.
Because the people's awareness is rising at an incredible pace, because they are realizing that their enemy was not their own neighbor.
Or foreigners with a different skin color or a different religion.
The enemy has always been the elites who had created division in the first place.
 
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Debater Slayer

Vipassana
Staff member
Premium Member
It is a nihilistic stream that basically aimed at waging war on culture and traditional values.

Progressing beyond certain outdated, inhumane "traditional values" has been a major factor in shaping the cultures of much of modern-day Europe. France, the U.K., and Scandinavia--to name a few examples--didn't become relatively prosperous out of the blue; there's a reason they're all conspicuously secular and mostly dominated by progressive values rather than "traditional" ones.
 

Estro Felino

Believer in free will
Premium Member
Progressing beyond certain outdated, inhumane "traditional values" has been a major factor in shaping the cultures of much of modern-day Europe. France, the U.K., and Scandinavia--to name a few examples--didn't become relatively prosperous out of the blue; there's a reason they're all conspicuously secular and mostly dominated by progressive values rather than "traditional" ones.

Post #2 clarifyes the OP.
 

Debater Slayer

Vipassana
Staff member
Premium Member
Post #2 clarifyes the OP.

As professor Gatto Trocchi used to say: "the elites have willfully created a culture of disruption and chaos in order to create divisions among the people. So that the elites could defraud the people socially, politically and economically".

But unfortunately, I add these elites are on the verge of their own downfall.
Because the people's awareness is rising at an incredible pace, because they are realizing that their enemy was not their own neighbor.
Or foreigners with a different skin color or a different religion.
The enemy has always been the elites who had created division in the first place.

Attributing "chaos and disruption" to moving beyond traditionalism is a common argument among right-wing circles. I see no reason to believe traditionalism is necessarily desirable, however, especially not when it entails or requires xenophobia or other isolationist, hateful beliefs to sustain itself.
 

Revoltingest

Pragmatic Libertarian
Premium Member
Traditional European values I can do without.....
- Oppressive Christian theocracy.
- Penchant for starting both local & world wars.
- Slave trade.
- Colonizing & abusing the savages worldwide.
- Censorship.
- Anti-gay.
- Torture.
- Stealing art from poor countries.
- Rancid cheese.

I know that many European countries are trying
to progress. They should fight backsliders like
Putin & Lukashenko.
 

Estro Felino

Believer in free will
Premium Member
Traditional European values I can do without.....
- Oppressive Christian theocracy.
- Penchant for starting both local & world wars.
- Slave trade.
- Colonizing & abusing the savages worldwide.
- Censorship.
- Anti-gay.
- Torture.
- Stealing art from poor countries.
- Rancid cheese.

I know that many European countries are trying
to progress. They should fight backsliders like
Putin & Lukashenko.

As smart and cultured mr Shapiro said, the history of the 20th century has been falsified.
There has been a manipulation of the narrative as for the philosophical implications of Marxism.

And that is why populists and socialists like myself have understood that the wicked economic stream called neo-liberism has been exploiting neo-Marxism to subdue the sovereign people.
And that is why the priests of neo-liberism look down on the people, calling them populace.

But...I think the new generations like Shapiro will rewrite history someday.
 

Revoltingest

Pragmatic Libertarian
Premium Member
As smart and cultured mr Shapiro said, the history of the 20th century has been falsified.
There has been a manipulation of the narrative as for the philosophical implications of Marxism.
Marxism is another European tradition I loathe.
It's a vile disease that still seems to infect Putin & Russia.
And that is why populists and socialists like myself have understood that the wicked economic stream called neo-liberism has been exploiting neo-Marxism to subdue the sovereign people.
And that is why the priests of neo-liberism look down on the people, calling them populace.

But...I think the new generations like Shapiro will rewrite history someday.
The "subdue" problem de jour is Putin attempting
to put Ukraine under the heel of his boot.
If neo-liberalism is fighting subjugation, then I'm for it.
 

Debater Slayer

Vipassana
Staff member
Premium Member
Marxism is another European tradition I loathe.
It's a vile disease that still seems to infect Putin & Russia.

Russia is heavily capitalistic nowadays. An example of this is the concentration of wealth and power among its oligarchs, many of whom are joined at the hip with Putin.
 

Estro Felino

Believer in free will
Premium Member
Marxism is another European tradition I loathe.
It's a vile disease that still seems to infect Putin & Russia.

The "subdue" problem de jour is Putin attempting
to put Ukraine under the heel of his boot.
If neo-liberalism is fighting subjugation, then I'm for it.

I think Shapiro video is very interesting. It only lasts 2 minutes.
 

Revoltingest

Pragmatic Libertarian
Premium Member
Russia is heavily capitalistic nowadays. An example of this is the concentration of wealth and power among its oligarchs, many of whom are joined at the hip with Putin.
Sure, but the old Soviet power structure
remains, eg, crushing political opposition.
Putin is one large vestigial organ, eh.
 

Estro Felino

Believer in free will
Premium Member
Sure, but the old Soviet power structure
remains, eg, crushing political opposition.
Putin is one large vestigial organ, eh.

By the way, it is curious to analyze how in the United states a Socialist party (or a Communist party) has never taken over.

As you justly said, these two doctrines originated in Europe, but they are very different.

Socialism was conceived by French, Germans and Italians. And by the Papacy, so it has a bit of Christian inspiration, despite being a secular non-religious political doctrine.

As for Marx...well...Marx was certainly not a Christian.
And in fact Bolshevism forbade Christian propaganda.
 

Revoltingest

Pragmatic Libertarian
Premium Member
By the way, it is curious to analyze how in the United states a Socialist party (or a Communist party) has never taken over.
They're far far less popular than even the Libertarian Party.
But they suffer from the Democrats siphoning off their
luminaries, eg, AOC.
As you justly said, these two doctrines originated in Europe, but they are very different.

Socialism was conceived by French, Germans and Italians. And by the Papacy, so it has a bit of Christian inspiration, despite being a secular non-religious political doctrine.

As for Marx...well...Marx was certainly not a Christian.
And in fact Bolshevism forbade Christian propaganda.
Still, they're diseases traditions that originated in Europe.
Let's keep them at bay.
 

Estro Felino

Believer in free will
Premium Member
They're far far less popular than even the Libertarian Party.
But they suffer from the Democrats siphoning off their
luminaries, eg, AOC.

Still, they're diseases traditions that originated in Europe.
Let's keep them at bay.


By the way...these are the differences, oversimplified.

20220309_151849.jpg
 

Estro Felino

Believer in free will
Premium Member
The difference are insignificant regarding
emergent properties when implemented.
It's always economic woe, oppression,
censorship, & aggression

Well...I understood that I am on the right side of history when JP Morgan criticized the constitutions of several European countries (including mine), because they are too socialist.

Ricetta Jp Morgan per Europa integrata: liberarsi delle costituzioni antifasciste - Il Fatto Quotidiano

Which is a compliment...I mean...having a socialist constitution is a honor.
Especially if it is disliked by Morgan, Rockfeller or Warburg.
 

Revoltingest

Pragmatic Libertarian
Premium Member
Well...I understood that I am on the right side of history when JP Morgan criticized the constitutions of several European countries (including mine), because they are too socialist.

Ricetta Jp Morgan per Europa integrata: liberarsi delle costituzioni antifasciste - Il Fatto Quotidiano

Which is a compliment...I mean...having a socialist constitution is a honor.
Especially if it is disliked by Morgan, Rockfeller or Warburg.
Italy only prospers because it has vibrant capitalism,
albeit aided by largesse from Moscow. If you actually
adopted socialism, with government taking over the
means of production, you'd be decimated by famine.
 

Stevicus

Veteran Member
Staff member
Premium Member
As professor Gatto Trocchi used to say: "the elites have willfully created a culture of disruption and chaos in order to create divisions among the people. So that the elites could defraud the people socially, politically and economically".

But unfortunately, I add these elites are on the verge of their own downfall.
Because the people's awareness is rising at an incredible pace, because they are realizing that their enemy was not their own neighbor.
Or foreigners with a different skin color or a different religion.
The enemy has always been the elites who had created division in the first place.

I'm not sure about the Frankfurt School, but I don't believe that communists or Marxists have had much influence over America.

The (mostly) non-communist labor movement may have helped to bolster liberalism, though. I think the Bolshevik Revolution may have sent a wake up call to Western capitalists into thinking "if we don't stop acting like a bunch of scumbags, then our countries will plunge into revolution too."

That's when capitalists seemed more willing to make deals with labor unions for better wages and working conditions. They appeared willing to compromise rather than risk losing everything they had. For their part, the working classes had no real love of "godless communism" and were content to remain loyal to the capitalist system - as long as they got their fair share. Indeed, after WW2, the American standard of living grew by leaps and bounds - far better than anyone had ever seen previously.

But it was more due to Keynesianism than Marxism, which really never gained any real ideological foothold in America.

As for changes in cultural perceptions and views on racial politics, there were probably several influences at work, some of which had been present even before the Civil War. The Abolitionists and their ideological successors were not Marxists. The industrial capitalists also had their own reasons for opposing slavery, although they seemed somewhat ambivalent regarding racism and the direction US politics took in the Postbellum era (i.e. "separate but equal").

I think the big turning point in US policies on race was around WW2. For one thing, the Nazi policies had gone so far beyond the pale that it caused greater light to be put upon our own racial policies, which became more and more indefensible in the court of public opinion.

Also, due to the impending collapse of the British and French empires and the power vacuum that it was forming in the world, our geopolitical aspirations had to shift in order to keep the post-colonial world within the Western fold. The big fear was that they could fall to communist agitators.

But in places like Africa and South Asia, the US had a big PR problem due to our own history of racism and oppression. In contrast, the Soviets would have been seen as having a 'clean slate' in the eyes of the former colonial subjects, who were never oppressed by the Russians. The US political leadership saw that there was a need for the US to clean up and polish its image in the eyes of the world. They didn't need Marxists to tell them that.

Another aspect of WW2 is that there was a sense that everyone was in it together, along with a push towards national unity, regardless of race, color, or creed. Fact was, we needed People of Color on side, whether serving in the armed forces or working on farms, factories, mines, etc. (It's also a time when women were being called to work in large numbers, and this is viewed as a major impetus in the women's liberation movement.)

I think what hurt America most was not "Marxism" as such, but rather, it was the widespread fear of Marxism and socialism in general. It was this fear that fueled the paranoia which caused the various red scares in America, along with the Cold War and nuclear brinkmanship.

After WW2, America was on top of the world and at the peak of its power. We had a good thing going, but our leaders decided that it wasn't good enough. They wanted more, and that's where they went wrong.
 

Estro Felino

Believer in free will
Premium Member
Italy only prospers because it has vibrant capitalism,
albeit aided by largesse from Moscow. If you actually
adopted socialism, with government taking over the
means of production, you'd be decimated by famine.

You mean Communism.
The chart did explain the difference ;)

Socialism values and enables Capitalism. Without capitalism, Socialism is nothing.
 
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