The Garden of Eden

[John D. Brey]

John 3:14

14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up:


How do you Interpret John 3:14 in regards to Representation?

Are you willing to take the red pill?

In Matthew 4:5, Jesus is taken up to a high mountain and shown all the kingdoms of the world. The "god of this world," which is one of the manifestations of legit divinity in the OT, is offering to anoint Jesus Messiah. But something happens on the way to Jesus fulfilling the Jewish, or OT expectation, concerning the Messiah: Jesus rejects the offer throwing the entire Tanakh into limbo. Suddenly, the god of the OT, is called the "devil." And Jews are called the followers of the devil, whom Jesus calls their father. ------What in Hashem is going on?

The god of this world's offer to anoint Jesus Messiah (giving him all the kingdoms of the world) is a legit offer. Jesus can accept it and fulfill all of Israel's expectations then and there. What the devil (the god of the OT) doesn't know, is that because of his virgin conception and birth, Jesus is the only human being whose body is able to be indwelt by deity. Since Adam's sin isn't transferred to Mary's ovum the old-fashioned way, by the fleshly serpent who poisons all other conceptions, Jesus' physical body can be used as a temple, or home, for deity.

Deity ---to include the devil (the god of this world) can indwell his flesh. Which is what the god of the world, the OT, intended for the Jewish Messiah. The god of this world intended to indwell Jesus as Messiah. That's what Jesus rejected. And that's why the god of this world killed him.

What the god of this world didn't take into account, is that without Jesus' sinless body, he, this god, has no opportunity to indwell a human being in order to establish his messianic kingdom. Ergo, the serpent, i.e., the god of this world, loses his only opportunity to incarnate (indwell flesh) when Jesus' sinless body is lifted up on the cross. Which means that, in a sense, the serpent dies on the cross with Jesus; the serpent's opportunity to incarnate in the body of Jesus, and thus rule as messiah, is crucified on that cross with Jesus. That's what Moses testified to when he lifted the serpent up in the desert, i.e., the death of the serpent's ability to rule as a man indwelt by demonic deity. That's what Moses prophesied when he lifted up the serpent as the son of man would eventually be lifted up in the first century CE.

Fast forward to the future. With the advent of high tech, the god of this world, the devil, is finally able to destroy the The Shroud of Turin in a procedure that acquires enough of Jesus' DNA to clone the sinless body of Jesus so that the god of this world can finally, after 2000 years, try to do now, what the crucifixion made impossible all those years ago. The so-called "Beast" is a golem of Jesus' body; a chimeric clone of Jesus indwelt by the devil.

What the devil doesn't know, understand, or believe, is that God saved every sin that has ever been committed throughout human history so that it can be imputed to the body of Jesus. When the devil clones Jesus' flesh, and indwells that flesh, God then unleashes all the sins of the world on that body freeing the world from its sins, imputing all of our sins to that body, the cloned body of Jesus, indwelt by the devil, to be locked up in hell forever.



John

 

[Betho_br]

Why did God evict Adam and Eve from the garden of Eden?

2 Corinthians 11:3 New International Version
But I am afraid that just as Eve was deceived by the serpent’s cunning, your minds may somehow be led astray from your sincere and pure devotion to Christ.

1 Timothy 2:14 New International Version
And Adam was not the one deceived; it was the woman who was deceived and became a sinner.

Eve's big mistake was debating theology with the serpent. Eve was created after the orders given to Adam, the Scriptures do not record how she had access to the orders, the fact is that she was mistaken in telling the serpent that the tree in the middle of the garden (Tree of life) could not be eaten and worse, he added words to God's mouth saying that they couldn't even touch it, God didn't say that to Adam. So, after this dark debate, Eve, having already exchanged the positions of the trees for the cunning of the serpent in her mind, when walking through the garden, she comes across the tree of the knowledge of good and evil and free from any weight of conscience, as this was not in the middle of the garden, eat and give to Adam.

 

[IndigoChild5559]

The Garden of Eden is both a physical place that was "east" of Eden, as well as a non-literal place that provided an explanation for a particular phenomenon which in this case is the rain cycle.

Or simply, a location in a myth, a myth which teaches us important information about human nature.

 

[Elihoenai]

Are you willing to take the red pill?

In Matthew 4:5, Jesus is taken up to a high mountain and shown all the kingdoms of the world. The "god of this world," which is one of the manifestations of legit divinity in the OT, is offering to anoint Jesus Messiah. But something happens on the way to Jesus fulfilling the Jewish, or OT expectation, concerning the Messiah: Jesus rejects the offer throwing the entire Tanakh into limbo. Suddenly, the god of the OT, is called the "devil." And Jews are called the followers of the devil, whom Jesus calls their father. ------What in Hashem is going on?

The god of this world's offer to anoint Jesus Messiah (giving him all the kingdoms of the world) is a legit offer. Jesus can accept it and fulfill all of Israel's expectations then and there. What the devil (the god of the OT) doesn't know, is that because of his virgin conception and birth, Jesus is the only human being whose body is able to be indwelt by deity. Since Adam's sin isn't transferred to Mary's ovum the old-fashioned way, by the fleshly serpent who poisons all other conceptions, Jesus' physical body can be used as a temple, or home, for deity.

Deity ---to include the devil (the god of this world) can indwell his flesh. Which is what the god of the world, the OT, intended for the Jewish Messiah. The god of this world intended to indwell Jesus as Messiah. That's what Jesus rejected. And that's why the god of this world killed him.

What the god of this world didn't take into account, is that without Jesus' sinless body, he, this god, has no opportunity to indwell a human being in order to establish his messianic kingdom. Ergo, the serpent, i.e., the god of this world, loses his only opportunity to incarnate (indwell flesh) when Jesus' sinless body is lifted up on the cross. Which means that, in a sense, the serpent dies on the cross with Jesus; the serpent's opportunity to incarnate in the body of Jesus, and thus rule as messiah, is crucified on that cross with Jesus. That's what Moses testified to when he lifted the serpent up in the desert, i.e., the death of the serpent's ability to rule as a man indwelt by demonic deity. That's what Moses prophesied when he lifted up the serpent as the son of man would eventually be lifted up in the first century CE.

Fast forward to the future. With the advent of high tech, the god of this world, the devil, is finally able to destroy the The Shroud of Turin in a procedure that acquires enough of Jesus' DNA to clone the sinless body of Jesus so that the god of this world can finally, after 2000 years, try to do now, what the crucifixion made impossible all those years ago. The so-called "Beast" is a golem of Jesus' body; a chimeric clone of Jesus indwelt by the devil.

What the devil doesn't know, understand, or believe, is that God saved every sin that has ever been committed throughout human history so that it can be imputed to the body of Jesus. When the devil clones Jesus' flesh, and indwells that flesh, God then unleashes all the sins of the world on that body freeing the world from its sins, imputing all of our sins to that body, the cloned body of Jesus, indwelt by the devil, to be locked up in hell forever.



John

John 1:12

12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:

Romans 8:13

13 For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.


I Am Christian Gnostic. Christian Gnostics have already taken the Red Pill. Your Red Pill is Not the same as My Red Pill. Christian Gnostics Become Yeshua Messiah/Jesus Christ. There is no such thing as a Sinless Body. The Body/Flesh Is Sin. Yeshua Messiah/Jesus Christ Destroys the Flesh/Body For Spirit.

 

[John D. Brey]

John 1:12

12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:

Romans 8:13

13 For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.


I Am Christian Gnostic. Christian Gnostics have already taken the Red Pill. Your Red Pill is Not the same as My Red Pill. Christian Gnostics Become Yeshua Messiah/Jesus Christ. There is no such thing as a Sinless Body. The Body/Flesh Is Sin. Yeshua Messiah/Jesus Christ Destroys the Flesh/Body For Spirit.

Obviously there's a subtle but important distinction between your Gnosticism and my Christianity. They have much in common. But there are important distinctions.




John

 

[Elihoenai]

Obviously there's a subtle but important distinction between your Gnosticism and my Christianity. They have much in common. But there are important distinctions.




John

The Christian Gnosticism that Elohim/God has shown me has Differences from Traditional Christian Gnosticism. For example, My Christian Gnosticism Knows that the Holy Scriptures/Bible from Genesis to Revelation is Unified Whole and that Devil/Satan is Elohim/God in its Lowest Form. In Traditional Christian Gnosticism the Holy Hebrew Scriptures is Rejected and Devil/Satan is Another Lesser Deity.

I Am the first in this Era to practice this branch of Christian Gnosticism. Christian Gnosticism is not Monolithic, although at it's Fundamental/Core Level is Duality. Christian Gnosticism is the Original Practice and Teaching of Yeshua Messiah/Jesus Christ.



Gnosticism

Origins

"The origins of Gnosticism are obscure and still disputed. The proto-orthodox Christian groups called Gnostics a heresy of Christianity,[note 13][24] but according to the modern scholars the theology's origin is closely related to Jewish sectarian milieus and early Christian sects.[25][26][note 14][27] Some scholars debate Gnosticism's origins as having roots in Buddhism, due to similarities in beliefs,[28] but ultimately, its origins are unknown..."

Gnosticism - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

What Did Gnostic Christians Believe?

The Valentinians: Ancient Christian Gnostics?

 

[John D. Brey]

I Am the first in this Era to practice this branch of Christian Gnosticism. Christian Gnosticism is not Monolithic,

. . . The first statement seems at odds with the second? And the capital A could be read to imply, Freudian slip or no, self-deification.




John

 

[Elihoenai]

. . . The first statement seems at odds with the second? And the capital A could be read to imply, Freudian slip or no, self-deification.




John

Job 19:26

26 And though after my skin worms destroy this body, yet in my flesh shall I see God:

Ephesians 4:6

6 One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.


If you have read My writings than you will know that there is no slip. Every person on the planet is part of Elohim's/God's Body. Everything that Exists is Elohim/God. Elohim/God is Omni. Elohim/God is Good and Evil. Sigmund Freud is the Evil Satanic Side of Elohim/God. Satan/Devil is Elohim/God in Its Lowest Flesh Form. Every person is Born Evil Children of the Devil/Satan from the Womb. Some people are more Evil than others.

Elohim/God is Flesh, Soul and Spirit. Elohim/God wants Its Creation to Climb Elohim's/God's Ladder:

Elohim's/God's Ladder:
Flesh->Soul->Spirit

 

[alf]

I consider the story of Adam and Eve to be a spiritual expression, not a historical event from the past.
The writer describes his inner self and his creation which is identical to every person born anywhere.

He begins with the period when he was a fetus and expresses it in words.
Now the earth was formless and empty, darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was hovering over the waters.

After birth, it divides its periods of life into seven days.
The Garden of Eden is the emotions that every person tastes during his life.
Some emotions are bitter, others sour and sweet.

No man was born as he is now.
But no one remembers the days when he was a baby, did he know then what anger, hatred, love, joy, sadness are.

People delve into the history of mankind, instead of looking for answers in their own existence.

 

[Elihoenai]

I consider the story of Adam and Eve to be a spiritual expression, not a historical event from the past.
The writer describes his inner self and his creation which is identical to every person born anywhere.

He begins with the period when he was a fetus and expresses it in words.
Now the earth was formless and empty, darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was hovering over the waters.

After birth, it divides its periods of life into seven days.
The Garden of Eden is the emotions that every person tastes during his life.
Some emotions are bitter, others sour and sweet.

No man was born as he is now.
But no one remembers the days when he was a baby, did he know then what anger, hatred, love, joy, sadness are.

People delve into the history of mankind, instead of looking for answers in their own existence.

Matthew 4:8-9

8 Again, the devil taketh him up into an exceeding high mountain, and sheweth him all the kingdoms of the world, and the glory of them;

9 And saith unto him, All these things will I give thee, if thou wilt fall down and worship me.


The Historical and Literal Interpretation is what Christianity, Islam and Judaism is Founded upon. Christianity, Islam and Judaism are Left-Hand Path Religions that Cherishes the Flesh/Body. These are Exoteric/Outward Interpretations for the Natural Man/Woman.

What is Primary is where Emotions are Channeled, Emotions are Channeled to Elohim/God or to the Devil/Satan.

Rhodes Memorial

Location

The memorial is located at Rhodes's favourite spot on his former estate on the lower slopes of Devil's Peak. Rhodes's own wooden bench is still situated below the memorial. The view facing north-east can be imagined as the start of the Cape to Cairo Railway and Rhodes's dream of a "red line" of British dominions spanning the continents north to its south.

Rhodes Memorial - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[marriedmanoffaith]

I consider the story of Adam and Eve to be a spiritual expression, not a historical event from the past.
The writer describes his inner self and his creation which is identical to every person born anywhere.

He begins with the period when he was a fetus and expresses it in words.
Now the earth was formless and empty, darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was hovering over the waters.

After birth, it divides its periods of life into seven days.
The Garden of Eden is the emotions that every person tastes during his life.
Some emotions are bitter, others sour and sweet.

No man was born as he is now.
But no one remembers the days when he was a baby, did he know then what anger, hatred, love, joy, sadness are.

People delve into the history of mankind, instead of looking for answers in their own existence.

Your observation that "no man was born as he is now" underscores the transformative journey each person undergoes. From the innocence of infancy, where we are untouched by the full spectrum of emotions, we grow into beings capable of profound feelings and thoughts. This transformation reminds us that understanding ourselves requires looking inward, recognizing that the answers to many of life's questions lie within our own existence.

In a world that often focuses on external histories and achievements, your call to introspection is both timely and necessary. By contemplating our own creation and the stages of our lives, we can gain deeper insights into our purpose and our relationship with the divine. This inner journey can reveal the spiritual truths that shape our being, helping us to live more authentically and compassionately.

 

[Muffled]

True like the sky is Carolina blue on a clear day at noon on the 4th of July.

The problem is without any independent objective evidence claims are meaningless. Ancient texts make claims of World floods. dragons, cyclops, and a wide variety of Gods, but they cannot be claimed as true without independent objective evidence,

I believe that makes the unknown even bigger. S don't tell me you know something about the Garden of Eden because there is nothing objective about it.

 

[Muffled]

Or simply, a location in a myth, a myth which teaches us important information about human nature.

I believe you are in error. The word of God is not myth.

 

[Muffled]

I consider the story of Adam and Eve to be a spiritual expression, not a historical event from the past.
The writer describes his inner self and his creation which is identical to every person born anywhere.

He begins with the period when he was a fetus and expresses it in words.
Now the earth was formless and empty, darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was hovering over the waters.

After birth, it divides its periods of life into seven days.
The Garden of Eden is the emotions that every person tastes during his life.
Some emotions are bitter, others sour and sweet.

No man was born as he is now.
But no one remembers the days when he was a baby, did he know then what anger, hatred, love, joy, sadness are.

People delve into the history of mankind, instead of looking for answers in their own existence.

I believe there is nothing to indicate the author has inserted himself unless of course you are referring to God, who has a habit of taking credit for things he had other people do.

 

[shunyadragon]

I believe that makes the unknown even bigger. S don't tell me you know something about the Garden of Eden because there is nothing objective about it.

The requirement for objectivity is basic if you want to support the claim of supernatural events from ancient text without provenance, The claim of the Garden of Eden is the there was a perfect world without death, suffering or sin, which is a virtually impossible claim to support. This is an impossible claim for the entire Creation account and Noah's Flood as described in the Bible.

 

[shunyadragon]

I consider the story of Adam and Eve to be a spiritual expression, not a historical event from the past.
The writer describes his inner self and his creation which is identical to every person born anywhere.

He begins with the period when he was a fetus and expresses it in words.
Now the earth was formless and empty, darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was hovering over the waters.

After birth, it divides its periods of life into seven days.
The Garden of Eden is the emotions that every person tastes during his life.
Some emotions are bitter, others sour and sweet.

No man was born as he is now.
But no one remembers the days when he was a baby, did he know then what anger, hatred, love, joy, sadness are.

People delve into the history of mankind, instead of looking for answers in their own existence.

This may be your spiritual view to explain the impossibility of the Pentateuch accounts, OK, but it neglects the fact that the authors of the Pentateuch, the NT and the Church Fathers believed in a literal Pentateuch.

 

[Betho_br]

The requirement for objectivity is basic if you want to support the claim of supernatural events from ancient text without provenance, The claim of the Garden of Eden is the there was a perfect world without death, suffering or sin, which is a virtually impossible claim to support. This is an impossible claim for the entire Creation account and Noah's Flood as described in the Bible.

Hello, how are you? Beware of "Christianity". 1) Death already existed in the Garden of Eden, it was just about not eating the "fruit of the tree of life" 2) Pain already existed in the Garden of Eden, as Elohim said: "I will greatly multiply the pain of your conception" gen 3: 16 3) Adam from the Garden of Eden was the first metaphysician of human existence, while Adam from chapter one of Genesis was an evolutionary physicist in the ages.

 

[Betho_br]

This may be your spiritual view to explain the impossibility of the Pentateuch accounts, OK, but it neglects the fact that the authors of the Pentateuch, the NT and the Church Fathers believed in a literal Pentateuch.

Okay. Except Origen, an influential third-century Christian theologian, interpreted the Pentateuch symbolically, seeking spiritual and allegorical meanings in the stories and laws contained in these sacred books, he was considered heretical by "Christianity", but his case was reviewed.

 

[shunyadragon]

Okay. Except Origen, an influential third-century Christian theologian, interpreted the Pentateuch symbolically, seeking spiritual and allegorical meanings in the stories and laws contained in these sacred books, he was considered heretical by "Christianity", but his case was reviewed.

Origen is widely selectively cited to justify different Origen interpreted Genesis both literally and symbolically. He believed like Alexander that Creation was instantaneous, which is a literal interpretation of the beginning of Genesis. He was uncomfortable with the description of the seven days of Creation, and provide some explanations of his beliefs, but still as with all the Church Fathers believe in a literal Pentateuch.

The problem goes beyond the interpretation of the Creation account, but the issue of the literal historical understanding of the Pentateuch

He had an interesting interpretation of the 'Garden of Eden' is that it was not literally a garden, but the state the world before the Fall.

Origen, origins, and allegory

Origen did interpret some aspects of Genesis figuratively, but he believed in a young earth and cosmos.

creation.com

The claim that Origen’s approach to hermeneutics provides room for belief in deep time and evolution within Christian theological discourse obscures the thrust of his teaching. The strong dichotomy between the Antiochene school, that focused upon literal readings, and the Alexandrian centre that emphasized the spiritual, has been shown to be false. All early theologians read Scripture both symbolically and historically, although it is probably true that Origen followed Philo in holding that the creation occurred at once in the recent past, and that the six-day account was meant to be read allegorically. This belief was also held by Clement and Augustine.

The evidence further shows that Origen held Adam and Eve to be directly and recently created, and the protoplasts of all subsequent human beings. Although on occasions he referred to Adam as figurative of humanity as a whole, when speaking chronologically he accepted that there was a geneological link from Adam to all. Origen’s beliefs about the Fall are somewhat difficult to glean, possibly colored by errors in translation, but he seems to have believed that there was a stain of sin passing from Adam to all, even though not suggesting that humanity shares Adam’s guilt.

There is also clearly a commitment, especially in his writing Contra Celsum, that creation occurred not even ten thousand years ago. Those who wrote otherwise did so because of a reliance upon pagan sources which he thought erroneous or mendacious. Origen held in high esteem the writing of Moses and asserted that it was superior in accuracy and antiquity to that of the pagan authors such as Hesiod and Epicurus. This raises difficulties for those who seek to use his writings to justify belief in Darwinian evolution especially when we can see the influence of these pagan authors in Darwin’s own writing.

Homilies on Genesis and Exodus – HFS Books

Origen, son of the martyr Leonides, oldest in a family of seven children was born probably at Alexandria 184/85 and died probably in Tyre 253/54 after imprisonment and torture during the Decian persecution. Surnamed \"man of steel\" Origen was an outstanding theologian of the early...

www.hfsbooks.com

Origen's chief aim was to be an interpreter of the Scriptures. To this end he composed scientific commentaries on various books of the Old and New Testaments, homilies, and short exegetical notes. The translations presented here belong to the second category. Though he did not reject the literal sense of Scripture Origen here is more intent upon the spiritual meanings of passages selected from Genesis and Exodus.
Origen's chief aim was to be an interpreter of the Scriptures. To this end he composed scientific commentaries on various books of the Old and New Testaments, homilies, and short exegetical notes. The translations presented here belong to the second category. Though he did not reject the literal sense of Scripture Origen here is more intent upon the spiritual meanings of passages selected from Genesis and Exodus.

Read more of the above. . .

 

[jimb]

I believe you are in error. The word of God is not myth.

The word of God is often figurative, meant to teach a moral principle. Does that make you feel better?