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The Garden of Eden..........

michel

Administrator Emeritus
Staff member
In another thread, there is talk of where the Garden of Eden was - Geographically.

I saw my doctor rececently, who, during his conversation with me, reminded me that the human race stemmed originally from Africa.

(That may - or not - be accurate), but, if it is, would that not indicate that the Garden of Eden was in Africa?
 

Circle_One

Well-Known Member
One of my first posts on RF discussed this very topic: the location of the Garden of Eden.

Circle_One said:
I have been wondering this same thing for a long time. I've read about it many times. First, Eden corresponds to no known geographical site, say some studies. But in others:

Genesis 2:10- A river flows out of Eden to water the garden, and from there it divides and becomes four branches. 11 The name of the first is Pishon; it is one that flows around the whole land of Havilah, where there is gold; 12 and the gold of that land is good; bdellium and onyx stone are there. 13 The name of the second river is Gihon; it is the one that flows around the whole land of Cush. 14 The name of the third river is Tigris, which flows east of Assyria. And the fourth river is the Euphrates.

Out of the four rivers mentioned, only the Tigris and Euphrates correspond to known ones. It is suggested that they surround the whole settled world with Eden at its center. The Havilah is sometimes identified with the Arabian peninsula and Cush with the Horn of Africa.
 

herushura

Active Member
One of my first posts on RF discussed this very topic: the location of the Garden of Eden.

I have discussed this alot, The 2 rivers Pishon and Gihon were destroyed by the Flood, they don't exist any more from were I have put it. Put the bible puts it that the 4 rivers were connected to a certain source and were joined, Tigris and Euphrates are not joined, but they all flow out of the Persian Gulf. Eden has to be somewhere in Mesopotamia towards the end of the Persian Gulf.

I have also identified Atlantis as the same place as Eden, because of significant similarity's.

I have pointed out the cause of the Flood is the Mineon eruption, that created a tsunami which flooded parts of the middle east.
 

herushura

Active Member
There is also a Second Place i have identified With Edan, and that is Heliopolis.
The Egyptian word for Heliopolis is AN, and the egyptian word for House is "Hat"
by combinding "Hat+An" to get Hatan, which when transliterated in hebrew would spell "Edhan" or todays english "Edan"
and even the word Atlan-Tis - there is no L in egypt so atlan would be At-An (hat-en) house of An

The Chief Deity of heliopolis was Atum, which when transliterated in Hebrew would be Adam, In Egypt Atum is First Man

alex_map_06.gif


And if you look at this Map, they are 4 Rivers that branch out of Heliopolis
 
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Riverwolf

Amateur Rambler / Proud Ergi
Premium Member
I have also identified Atlantis as the same place as Eden, because of significant similarity's.

Slightly off topic, but Atlantis is inspired by the fall of Minoan civilization caused by Santorini. The Minoans lived on the island of Crete.

The etymology may be similar, but the legendary places are very different.
 

herushura

Active Member
Slightly off topic, but Atlantis is inspired by the fall of Minoan civilization caused by Santorini. The Minoans lived on the island of Crete.

The etymology may be similar, but the legendary places are very different.

The Mineon eruption happened around 1645BC | The babylonian account of the flood was called Atrahasis which was written in 1640BC which is five years after the Flood.

Take note that Around 1645BC at the time of the Flood, Hyksos started moving in to Egypt, and because of the close date of the mineon eruption they must of fled to egypt because it not effected by the flood, they is also proof that the hyksos were pheonicans. This is explained in the bible and why biblical patriarch appear in the 15th/16th dynasty, take note that 15th/16th dynasty rulers have no fixed Date of when they ruled.

Nahor - Nehesy
Abraham - Mayebre
Issac - Aqenenre Apepi
Jacob - Yakubher/yakobaam ----- throne name is "Mer-user-ra" user-EL as EL is the Pheonician equivilent of Egyptian RA | User-El = Israel (interchangable vowels)
Esau - Seuserenre Khyan (Some claim khyan is were Caanan got its name) - And Esau is the founder of Edom (in same place as caanan was)
Joseph - Ananther (Zap-Henath-Paneah) .Gen 41:45.
Judah - Tao (Ya-Tao) Egypt T = semetic D
Levi - Sekhemre shedtawy - Remeber no L in Egypt - tawy/lewy/levi

Adon was one of the Main Deity of the Pheonicans, and the hebrew word for covenant is "Berith" who was the pheonician mother Goddess,
and EL is also a Main pheonican deity and even yahwah has pheonican connections.

When Moses came Around they must of fled back to there homeland in caanan, explained by the Exodus. Reason for the Exodus is that the egytpian empire was crawling back to powers and the pheonican had no choice but to leave
 
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Valjean

Veteran Member
Premium Member
Michel has a point. There were people in Africa long before there were people in Mesopotamia, which is where a lot of people seem to think the garden was.
It seems to me any discussion of landforms corresponding to descriptions of Eden would have to reflect a Pleistoscene geography of several million years ago.
 

gnostic

The Lost One
zardoz said:
Or could have been the Black Sea Deluge, which occurred at the appropitare time.

The Black Sea Deluge is no where near that the probable Biblical Flood time.

The Black Sea Deluge supposedly happened in the 5th millennium BCE, while the so-called Biblical Flood happened at some time in the 2nd half of the 3rd millennium BCE. That's a big gap.

And I seriously doubt that the Black Sea Flood couldn't possibly bring flood to the Euphrates and Tigris rivers.
 
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Muffled

Jesus in me
Michel has a point. There were people in Africa long before there were people in Mesopotamia, which is where a lot of people seem to think the garden was.
It seems to me any discussion of landforms corresponding to descriptions of Eden would have to reflect a Pleistoscene geography of several million years ago.

The Garden of Eden is not history of a million years ago but only seven thousand years ago. Africa could be a place where man first was created or it could simply have been a place where hominids were created. Has anyone done DNA testing to see if we are any way near a relation?

The Norse myths call the Garden, Asgard and the gods that lived there Aesir. This certainly figures in with Asia and points to a Caucasian root. The Euphrates river flows from the area of the Caucasus Mountains and Mt Ararat is also in the general area.

However the existence of the Garden of Eden does not preclude gods from living wherever they wished and Norse myths have them traveling all over the place. The significance of the Garden of Eden is not the creation of man but the fall of man and a re-introduction of procreation and thereby an end to eternal life.
 
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Trey of Diamonds

Well-Known Member
The Garden of Eden was found in Gobekli Tepe.

Smithsonian_map_g%C3%B6bekli_tepe.jpg


Do these mysterious stones mark the site of the Garden of Eden? | Mail Online

Excerpt
And that's when a tantalising possibility arose. Over glasses of black tea, served in tents right next to the megaliths, Klaus Schmidt told me that, in his opinion, this very spot was once the site of the biblical Garden of Eden. More specifically, as he put it: 'Gobekli Tepe is a temple in Eden.'

To understand how a respected academic like Schmidt can make such a dizzying claim, you need to know that many scholars view the Eden story as folk-memory, or allegory.

Seen in this way, the Eden story, in Genesis, tells us of humanity's innocent and leisured hunter-gatherer past, when we could pluck fruit from the trees, scoop fish from the rivers and spend the rest of our days in pleasure.

But then we 'fell' into the harsher life of farming, with its ceaseless toil and daily grind. And we know primitive farming was harsh, compared to the relative indolence of hunting, because of the archaeological evidence.

To date, archaeologists have dug 45 stones out of the ruins at Gobekli

When people make the transition from hunter-gathering to settled agriculture, their skeletons change - they temporarily grow smaller and less healthy as the human body adapts to a diet poorer in protein and a more wearisome lifestyle. Likewise, newly domesticated animals get scrawnier.

This begs the question, why adopt farming at all? Many theories have been suggested - from tribal competition, to population pressures, to the extinction of wild animal species. But Schmidt believes that the temple of Gobekli reveals another possible cause.

'To build such a place as this, the hunters must have joined together in numbers. After they finished building, they probably congregated for worship. But then they found that they couldn't feed so many people with regular hunting and gathering.
'So I think they began cultivating the wild grasses on the hills. Religion motivated people to take up farming.'

The reason such theories have special weight is that the move to farming first happened in this same region. These rolling Anatolian plains were the cradle of agriculture.
 

Valjean

Veteran Member
Premium Member
The Garden of Eden is not history of a million years ago but only seven thousand years ago. Africa could be a place where man first was created or it could simply have been a place where hominids were created. Has anyone done DNA testing to see if we are any way near a relation?

I thought the Garden was the mythological home of the first people. How could the first people have lived there only seven thousand years ago when there were already people running around a million years previous to that?
 
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Watchmen

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
I think the Garden of Eden could have been anywhere. Genesis 2:8 states, "And the Lord God planted a Garden, eastward in Eden; and there he put the man who he had formed." In other words, God created the Garden and placed man there. In chapter 3, verse 24, God drives man out of the Garden and places cherubim and a flaming sword before the Tree of Life to keep man from taking it. If these things literally happened, then the Garden didn't go away - the Tree of Life is still there. I think of the Garden of Eden as a bubble that could have been anywhere. God placed Adam and Even into the bubble and after they partook of the fruit, he took them out of the bubble.

I'm not sure I'm making sense.
 

michel

Administrator Emeritus
Staff member
well, I came across this:- ( I have edited the post to reflect more accurately the bible passages)

Garden Of Eden - e-Jehovah's Witnesses


10 A stream flowed in Eden and watered the garden; beyond Eden it divided into four rivers. 11 The first river is the Pishon; it flows round the country of Havilah. 12 (Pure gold is found there and also rare perfume and precious stones.) 13 The second river is the Gihon; it flows round the country of Cush. 2.13 Cush (of Mesopotamia); or Ethiopia.
14 The third river is the Tigris, which flows east of Assyria, and the fourth river is the Euphrates.


The regions Cush, Havilah and Assyria (Asshur) existed in the post-Flood period, evidently deriving their names from Noah’s descendants. (Gen. 10:7, 22, 29) As a geographical designation, the name "Cush" at an early date became virtually synonymous with Ethiopia. The region of Havilah appears to have embraced the northwest portion of the Arabian Peninsula and extended to or near the Sinai Peninsula, where the wilderness of Shur was likely located. (Gen. 25:18; 1 Sam. 15:7) The Genesis account speaks of the Hiddekel or Tigris as "going to the east of Assyria." (Gen. 2:14) This may mean that, in the period referred to, Assyria occupied considerable territory west of the Tigris, possibly including Babylonia.​


Thus the evidence suggests that Moses employed terms familiar in his day to indicate the location of Eden’s garden. Of course, the Genesis account does not say the garden of Eden covered all this area. The references to Cush, Havilah and Assyria (Asshur) serve to identify the courses of the rivers. Nevertheless, their mention would have been helpful to Moses’ contemporaries in getting a picture of the relationship of the garden to these named areas. But for us today the regions themselves do not provide much assistance in determining the location of the garden of Eden.


As to the rivers, the Pishon and the Gihon cannot now be identified. This is understandable. If this part of Moses’ description relates to the time before the Flood, the Deluge itself may well have contributed to eliminating or changing the courses of the Pishon and Gihon Rivers. But if the rivers were ones existing in the post-Flood period, other natural phenomena, such as earthquakes, may since have altered their courses. More recent happenings illustrate that such changes can take place. For example, in 1950 a powerful earthquake in the region of Assam, India, caused some rivers to disappear and others to change their courses.​


However, the Euphrates is well known, and Idiqlat (Hiddekel) is the name used for the equally well-known Tigris in ancient Akkadian (Assyro-Babylonian) inscriptions. These rivers provide a real clue as to the location of Eden’s garden. The Hebrew word translated "heads" at Genesis 2:10 has a bearing on the matter. It would favor placing the garden of Eden in the mountainous region near the source of the Tigris and the Euphrates. As The Anchor Bible states in its comment on Genesis 2:10: "In Heb[rew] the mouth of the river is called ‘end’ (Josh xv 5, xviii 19); hence the plural of ro’s ‘head’ must refer here to the upper course. . . . This latter usage is well attested for the Akk[adian] cognate resu."



Both the Euphrates and the Tigris have their present sources in the mountainous region to the north of the Mesopotamian plains. Although opinions vary, numerous scholars would locate the garden of Eden in this area, a few miles south of Lake Van, in eastern Turkey.​
 

Trey of Diamonds

Well-Known Member
Both the Euphrates and the Tigris have their present sources in the mountainous region to the north of the Mesopotamian plains. Although opinions vary, numerous scholars would locate the garden of Eden in this area, a few miles south of Lake Van, in eastern Turkey.

How do you feel about the Gobekli Tepe theory?
 

idea

Question Everything
In another thread, there is talk of where the Garden of Eden was - Geographically.

I saw my doctor rececently, who, during his conversation with me, reminded me that the human race stemmed originally from Africa.

(That may - or not - be accurate), but, if it is, would that not indicate that the Garden of Eden was in Africa?

Noah perhaps landed in Africa... Everyone is decended from Noah as they are from Adam/Eve. Don't mix Noah up with Adam.

Eden was actually in America.

Here are the 4 rivers:
File:Mississippi River basin.jpg - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

read here:
Garden of Eden in Missouri? - FAIRMormon
 
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ayani

member
well, the theory that humans originated in Africa is based on evolutionary theory, and remains of ape-like semi-bipeds found in Africa said to be the evolutionary ancestors of humans.

going on the theories and interpretations of findings many scientists use to determine what kinds of bones are human, ancestral, within the same species, etc., it is likely that if one were to present such a scientist with the remains of an Australian Aboriginal person, a Masai from Kenya, a white man from Kent, and an Aleut woman and tell him or her that these bones were excavated from layers of rock, that the scientist studying the remains could declare each set of remains its own species. in fact, we would know that each set of bones came form a human being, from an ethnic group with its own unique physical traits, but still human.

Biblically, Eden is more likely to have been located in what is now Iraq / Mesopotamia. however, since the Great Flood what remained of Eden would have been covered in layer upon layer of sediment and soil and most likely lost to human rediscovery.
 

idea

Question Everything
Thus the evidence suggests that Moses employed terms familiar in his day to indicate the location of Eden’s garden.

Like "New" York" and Old York - where Noah landed, he started naming things as they had been named where he started out from. People who move usually do things like this, they take names from their old home, and use them to name things of thier new home. Don't get the old and the new mixed up.
 
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