The Gods don't care about us as individuals?

[Jainarayan]

Do you agree with this statement I found at another site:

For the most part, and this is something a lot of newcomers have a great deal of trouble with, the gods don't care about us as individuals. Their concern is for greater things and the clan/tribe as a whole. Many newcomers retain the idea of a "personal relationship" with the Aesir and Vanir that is simply not part of Heathen theology. For the "personal touch," we turn to our ancestors, who have a vested interest in our well-being, or the local wights who we share our homes and land with.

I'm not so sure I agree with this. There are many a writer who is not a new Heathen who feels a personal relationship with their fulltrui or fulltrua. Heathenism is a worldview and way of living as well as a "religion": maintaining frith with one's community and "tribe", connection to the ancestors and wights. But I think if I were to follow a path without a relationship with any deities, I might just as well be a polydeist. I could still in that case maintain the Heathen worldview.

What do you think?

 

[Quetzal]

If you partake in the belief that God(s) care about you as an individual, it opens up the age old argument: "Well, if God cares so much, why does he let bad things happen to people?"

 

[Jainarayan]

If you partake in the belief that God(s) care about you as an individual, it opens up the age old argument: "Well, if God cares so much, why does he let bad things happen to people?"

We don't believe the gods are omnipotent or omniscient. They aren't anything like the Abrahamic God. There are things they can't control and don't even know about. Freyja may not know I am having a problem in my love life until I call to her. Then the question becomes, does she care enough to intervene? Some people say no; I don't know that I agree with that.

 

[Quintessence]

I think that I'm a bit cautious to reply with much given this was placed specifically in the Asatru DIR, and my perspective on such matters may be neither relevant for nor in keeping with those traditions. So I'll shelve my own stance on the issue of "personal gods" and make an observation about the territory we seem to have here.

It may indeed be true that the idea of "personal gods" is a Christian one, and an idea that has "contaminated" reconstructions of historical Paganisms, but I honestly do not know. From what I understand, we don't really know all that much with certainty about pre-Christian religions. Archeological evidence is fragmented, and interpretations regarding what things were used for are precisely that: interpretations. Written accounts are often limited, and also often written by cultural outsiders who are bringing their own biases to their narratives. Furthermore, from what I understand, the various "neo" Nordic paths lack any centrally-appointed authority that can lay down official doctrines or dogmas (and even if there was, people would be free to ignore it within the context of their own practice). Because of all this, attempts of individuals to go "this is how it's done" in any authoritative fashion strikes me as little more than typical human posturing and power play.

 

[Jainarayan]

That's a good perspective. I've gotten the "the gods don't care about us" from what I think are very conservative quarters. I also don't think the archaeological records show everything that the average Viking Age person did or thought. It's also true there is no "Ásapope"; we really are making this up as we go along. A problem I have is not in venerating the ancestors, because I do revere (maybe romanticize) the past, but rather, that they are the ones who guide us day to day and look after us. I do not know how or why someone from 15th century Sicily or 11th century Scandinavia would be in any way interested in me, or have such power to affect my life. I wouldn't even know who those people were. I knew my parents, and my maternal grandparents, but that's about it. I feel like some long-lost relative showing up at someone's door because I heard they won the lottery, and as a 13th cousin 5 times removed, I'd like to introduce myself. I guess this is what upg is. As long as it's not turned into mus that's passed off as authoritative, there shouldn't be a problem for us individually.

 

[Riverwolf]

I pretty much take the stance that some of the Gods care about us on varying levels, whether as individuals or as a group. Depends on the Wight in question. Others don't care about us at all, others are downright malicious towards us.

Thunor (Thor), as the Friend of Humanity, does care about us, both as groups and individuals. Woden, on the other hand, seems to love playing favorites, as indicated by the various ways He's been depicted in Lore. One God I've been toying with reviving, Beowa, might be the same figure in the titular song from the famous folk song, John Barleycorn, and if so would probably be one of humanity's closest friends among the Gods even today (because alcohol). Sea Gods, on the other hand, I've begun to stress are the most untrustworthy of them all, for they really don't care about us.

 

[Jainarayan]

I pretty much take the stance that some of the Gods care about us on varying levels, whether as individuals or as a group. Depends on the Wight in question. Others don't care about us at all, others are downright malicious towards us.

Thunor (Thor), as the Friend of Humanity, does care about us, both as groups and individuals. Woden, on the other hand, seems to love playing favorites, as indicated by the various ways He's been depicted in Lore.

I agree with that very much.

 

[beenherebeforeagain]

I pretty much take the stance that some of the Gods care about us on varying levels, whether as individuals or as a group. Depends on the Wight in question. Others don't care about us at all, others are downright malicious towards us.

Thunor (Thor), as the Friend of Humanity, does care about us, both as groups and individuals. Woden, on the other hand, seems to love playing favorites, as indicated by the various ways He's been depicted in Lore. One God I've been toying with reviving, Beowa, might be the same figure in the titular song from the famous folk song, John Barleycorn, and if so would probably be one of humanity's closest friends among the Gods even today (because alcohol). Sea Gods, on the other hand, I've begun to stress are the most untrustworthy of them all, for they really don't care about us.

I'm not Asatru, so please accept my comment: this is very much how I see the spirits interacting with humans, regardless of which pantheon or form you look at. A few like us, most don't care, a few dislike us; this occurs at the individual and group levels.

 

[peanutbutter63]

When I was involved with the northern path, my attitude was that....the Gods and Goddesses did care, but not so much they had to hold our hands when going to the bathroom, or other places and activities. Caring, but not suffocating...

 

[vaguelyhumanoid]

I've heard that deities can care about individuals, but since they're not omnipotent they don't automatically notice every follower. Rather, the follower has to build a relationship with their deities through offerings, invocations etc. This strikes me as a balanced perspective.

 

[Jainarayan]

I've heard that deities can care about individuals, but since they're not omnipotent they don't automatically notice every follower.

Yes, I found out it's actually this the other person was saying. It was only half the story. If you call them, they will come.

 

[peanutbutter63]

Perhaps in my Asatru days a long time ago, I was a little too influenced by author Kevin Crossley-Holland and his book THE NORSE MYTHS, but I've always thought of it back then that the Gods weren't there to watch over the human realm as if their human creations were irresponsible children who had to be watched at all times and could not be trusted...but that was just me back then...