The Golden Rule-does it apply to everyone?

[JustWondering2]

Several years ago I dated a Fundamentalist Christian woman who sang the praises of her church an pastor and how good ...... on and on. I went sometimes with her and her kids, not all the time. This was a large Bible Church in Arlington Texas. I've always been a believer in the Golden Rule, and one of the assistant pastor did a 2-3 part talk about it. I won't go into the details of what he said, we all should know the Golden Rule here.

The guy did a really good job of covering the material and presenting it. The last sentence in his talk was " Do all these thing as long as the person is a believer". What? I felt like standing up in front of the congregation and calling him out, a believer what the Hell is that.

So my question is simple. I know there are folks here that know the Bible a lot better than I. So I ask is this true? To me he said abide by the Golden Rule as long as that person you're dealing with is a believer is Christ, if not then all bets are off and the golden rule does not apply? Help me out here folks I'm confused. My atheist parents beat the Golden Rule into my head. I never heard of this before, sounds a lot like religious bigotry to me.

Just Wondering

 

[A Vestigial Mote]

To me he said abide by the Golden Rule as long as that person you're dealing with is a believer is Christ, if not then all bets are off and the golden rule does not apply? Help me out here folks I'm confused. My atheist parents beat the Golden Rule into my head. I never heard of this before, sounds a lot like religious bigotry to me.

I wouldn't put too much stock in it. From my experience, believers tend to throw a lot of "religious" words around and into things like their sermons and prayers, much of it being unnecessary, and I get the impression that they don't even realize they do it. His addition of "as long as this person is a believer" was probably a subconscious addition. Probably indicates more about him, personally, than it does the belief system as a whole.

 

[Jeremiahcp]

The golden rule does not apply to me as I am too handsome. Which is why it is OK for me to kick babies.

 

[Brickjectivity]

So my question is simple. I know there are folks here that know the Bible a lot better than I. So I ask is this true? To me he said abide by the Golden Rule as long as that person you're dealing with is a believer is Christ, if not then all bets are off and the golden rule does not apply? Help me out here folks I'm confused. My atheist parents beat the Golden Rule into my head. I never heard of this before, sounds a lot like religious bigotry to me.

Just Wondering

Its definitely not mainstream to say something like that, and you do not get any repetition of that sort of idea from Bible reading. You can get lots of other odd interpretations easily, but this particular one is unusual. Do you know anything else about this church? It could be just this one church or it could be one of a group. There are many new denominations that have appeared in the last forty years, groups of churches with a central leadership and teaching circuit.

 

[metis]

The guy did a really good job of covering the material and presenting it. The last sentence in his talk was " Do all these thing as long as the person is a believer". What? I felt like standing up in front of the congregation and calling him out, a believer what the Hell is that.

It's called "fake gospel".

Since the view in the Abrahamic religions is that we are all made by God "in His image", for the pastor to put a limiting qualification on this simply means that he is spouting hypocritical and anti-scriptural nonsense. However, this doesn't surprise me one iota as I've run across so many distortions like this before coming from so many of these fundamentalists.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

... From my experience, believers tend to throw a lot of "religious" words around and into things like their sermons and prayers, much of it being unnecessary, and I get the impression that they don't even realize they do it.

And my experience strongly suggests that your's is tainted and sustained primarily by petty bias.

As for the question, I am Jewish and I've never heard a rabbi suggest such a thing. I'm also an American raised among folks who were and are primarily Christian, including Evangelical Christian, and I've never heard such a view expressed. Nor have I heard it expressed by the Muslims with whom I've interacted over the years.

 

[JustWondering2]

I wouldn't put too much stock in it. From my experience, believers tend to throw a lot of "religious" words around and into things like their sermons and prayers, much of it being unnecessary, and I get the impression that they don't even realize they do it. His addition of "as long as this person is a believer" was probably a subconscious addition. Probably indicates more about him, personally, than it does the belief system as a whole.

Thanks, yes for the most part I agree. In fact I asked the lady i referred to if she heard what he said, she didn't. Not to mention she couldn't understand why I was so upset. But I found out the hard way that was really how she and a lot of the folks I met there felt. I even brought the subject up in Bible study class and was jumped on by everyone in the room. One person said and others agreed, "not unless they are a believer". So I don't think they were using the word casually.

 

[JustWondering2]

Its definitely not mainstream to say something like that, and you do not get any repetition of that sort of idea from Bible reading. You can get lots of other odd interpretations easily, but this particular one is unusual. Do you know anything else about this church? It could be just this one church or it could be one of a group. There are many new denominations that have appeared in the last forty years, groups of churches with a central leadership and teaching circuit.

Every Southern Baptist I've ever know acted this way. This was at Gateway Bible Church. I even complained to the pastor (at that time) and he dismissed what I said basically. He even asked if all my friends were "non-believers" . I told him that was none of his business!

 

[Brickjectivity]

Every Southern Baptist I've ever know acted this way. This was at Gateway Bible Church. I even complained to the pastor (at that time) and he dismissed what I said basically. He even asked if my friends were "non-believers" . I told him that was none of his business!

Its indefensible behavior my opinion, but it does not seem tied to a denomination at least. Gateway is not a denomination but is a name anybody can throw into their church title. There are Gateway churches that are members of the Southern Baptist Convention, and there are Gateway churches that are not, and there is a *Huge* one called Gateway that calls itself 'Non denominational' and is in the Wikipedia here. Anyway, there are a variety of Baptist churches; but I think this attitude is rare. I think I might expect to find it in some places but not everywhere.

 

[JustWondering2]

Thanks to everyone for your comments. This came to mind the other day, years after it happened, I'm not sure exactly why it came to mind. In the past I've always just complained or *****ed about it or brought it up to criticize someone who claims some special gift just because they claimed to be a "believer". So I thought I would ask you guys here. I've been coming here to this site off and on for a long time, mainly seeking knowledge, rarely commenting and seldom creating threads. Some of you folks really crack me up, some are obviously a lot better educated than I and some are... well about as dumb as dirt. But if nothing else informative and entertaining.

 

[A Vestigial Mote]

And my experience strongly suggests that your's is tainted and sustained primarily by petty bias.

As for the question, I am Jewish and I've never heard a rabbi suggest such a thing. I'm also an American raised among folks who were and are primarily Christian, including Evangelical Christian, and I've never heard such a view expressed. Nor have I heard it expressed by the Muslims with whom I've interacted over the years.

I've never heard this particular view expressed either. I was merely saying that the general consistency of many believers' religious-themed speech often contains some strangeness or anomalies. Things that are logically questionable, or that you can tell they didn't mean to add or say. Heck... I have talked to people who speak so heavily of "The father" this, and "I'm walking the path" that, that you can't really even get the real gist of what they are saying. This is not me being "biased". These are actual encounters I have had with others who experienced the same as me - we left asking each other what in the hell a particular parishioner we were speaking with was actually trying to tell us. And believe me when I say I have attended a heaping ton more sermons than I would have ever cared to. So I have caught these little moments enough in people praying over one another, parts of the sermon being just a bit "off"... enough to believe it can't be due to "isolated" incidents, or my over-generalizing. Deny it all you want. Call me bigoted all you want. My personal experience is mine - and it tells me what it tells me.

 

[Vinayaka]

I won't go into the details of what he said, we all should know the Golden Rule here.

We should? Maybe you meant to put this in same faith debates?

 

[shmogie]

Every Southern Baptist I've ever know acted this way. This was at Gateway Bible Church. I even complained to the pastor (at that time) and he dismissed what I said basically. He even asked if all my friends were "non-believers" . I told him that was none of his business!

Interesting, I was raised a Southern Baptist, but left that denomination a long time ago. As I recall, the golden rule was taught to apply to everyone, just as the Bible teaches. Perhaps things have changed in the intervening 50 years.

 

[JustWondering2]

And my experience strongly suggests that your's is tainted and sustained primarily by petty bias.

As for the question, I am Jewish and I've never heard a rabbi suggest such a thing. I'm also an American raised among folks who were and are primarily Christian, including Evangelical Christian, and I've never heard such a view expressed. Nor have I heard it expressed by the Muslims with whom I've interacted over the years.

Question Sir or Madame : What part of the country (USA) are you from? Also were you Poor or well off. You'd be surprised how much difference it can make in ones perspective. I sir am a born and raised Texan, from Small Town Texas, closer to what most of the South is like. I think my Great Great Gran paw was a slave owner. I am not a racist myself (not any more) but I was sure as Hell raised as one. But I saw a different kind of racism, we were very poor when I was young. One Easter morning in the late 50 my two older sisters and I walked down the street to an old country Baptist church. We were a little late getting there so we had to look for a place to set. I remember the comments I heard "white trash", "PoorFolk" and the best of all "look at those white *iggers, where is there white trash parents". Nice folks that sure made me want to grow up and be like them. I have NEVER felt Love inside a church EVER!

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

I've never heard this particular view expressed either. I was merely saying that the general consistency of many believers' religious-themed speech often contains some strangeness or anomalies.

Most of my exposure to Christians has been either unrelated to there religion or related to (a) family life cycle events, (b) charity events, or (c) social justice advocacy. The overriding view expresses seems to be "let's take care of one another."

 

[JustWondering2]

We should? Maybe you meant to put this in same faith debates?

Perhaps. Should I have? As I said I have not posted in a while. If this needs to move I have no clue how to do it.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

Question Sir or Madame : What part of the country (USA) are you from?

Fair enough. My three brothers and I were raised in a GI housing track in southern California. My mother didn't work. My father was a blue collar worker who for many years worked two jobs to pay the hospital bills after my two-year old brother was hit by a car. The two big treats in our family were going to the beach and going out to McDonalds.

My mother was born in Mississippi; her family was from the South and far from well off.

I am now 71 years old and have lived slightly over half of those years in Chicagoland. Hope that helps.

 

[JustWondering2]

Most of my exposure to Christians has been either unrelated to there religion or related to (a) family life cycle events, (b) charity events, or (c) social justice advocacy. The overriding view expresses seems to be "let's take care of one another."

Good for you! IMHO almost every church I have attended seemed much more interested in getting you comfortable in the church to encourage you to become a member and remind you to donate and Tith (Don't know spelling, maybe because I've never done it). Their job (the public folks of the church) seemed to be more about keeping butts in seats so they could get more money out of you. I was once very fearful for my life (I was sick) and I was told by the assistant pastor of this same church, I could go to their special prayer service center and be prayed over, but I had to be a member in good standing, in other words paying my 10%. I told him where he could put his services and I was asked to leave the church grounds! I can match anyone's good stories with any number of TRUE bad stories of my own, never again will I be a sheep!

 

[JustWondering2]

Fair enough. My three brothers and I were raised in a GI housing track in southern California. My mother didn't work. My father was a blue collar worker who for many years worked two jobs to pay the hospital bills after my two-year old brother was hit by a car. The two big treats in our family were going to the beach and going out to McDonalds.

My mother was born in Mississippi; her family was from the South and far from well off.

I am now 71 years old and have lived slightly over half of those years in Chicagoland. Hope that helps.

Thanks. I almost always like your post Sir. You are way smarter than a lot of folks here I think

 

[JustWondering2]

Interesting, I was raised a Southern Baptist, but left that denomination a long time ago. As I recall, the golden rule was taught to apply to everyone, just as the Bible teaches. Perhaps things have changed in the intervening 50 years.

For me I think what got under my skin more than anything was that I got the feeling that they felt them saying those words, calling themselves a "believer" some how elevated them as being better than others. Particularly the ones that think their idea of worshiping God is the only way to get to heaven. Those are the ones that I will not associate with anymore. "You know the devil is ..........." BS The devil never made me do anything, nor did he make them do anything. It's just an excuse.