The Gospel - Is it only that Jesus died or is it that we celebrate The Resurrection?

[Kenny]

I grew up in a church family and eventually I came to wonder when I ever was not in church? And, I came to view salvation through Jesus is relative living as he lived and taught in the Gospels.

Certainly living as he lives should be our goal. !!

 

[marriedmanoffaith]

I don’t think so.

If all He did was die, they He is nothing more than a martyr.

The Gospel includes a resurrection that says that death's authority died. The Gospel, IMV, is where God became flesh as an immigrant into this world and experienced what no King would even consider, the pain of humanity to redeem humanity from his ultimate destruction. (I think we all can see this world’s population destroying itself)

1) He came to live as we did. To experience what He never experienced
2) He came to save us from ourselves and to free us to a new level of living
3) He conquered the authority of Death, Hell and the Grave in His resurrection
4) He offers a new life with a new authority and a new way of living.

So the symbol of the Cross needs to be an empty Cross and maybe an empty grave? He has resurrected!

The Gospel - the Good News of Jesus Christ - encompasses both the profound mystery of his sacrificial death on the cross and the glorious triumph of his resurrection. These are not separate events, but two inseparable aspects of Christ's Mystery that together form the heart of our faith.

In Christ's death on the cross, we see the ultimate expression of God's love and mercy. Jesus freely gave his life to atone for our sins and reconcile us to the Father. His sacrifice opens the way to our salvation.

Yet the story does not end at the cross. On the third day, Christ rose victorious over sin and death! The resurrection is God's seal of approval on Christ's sacrifice. It vindicates Jesus as the Son of God and demonstrates his power over death itself. The risen Christ gives us hope for eternal life and sends us forth to proclaim the Good News.

So we do not simply commemorate a past event. In the Eucharist, we participate in Christ's death and resurrection here and now. And we look forward in joyful hope to sharing fully in the resurrection when Christ returns in glory.

Let us therefore proclaim with St. Paul: "If Christ has not been raised, our preaching is useless and so is your faith" (1 Cor 15:14). The cross and resurrection together form the foundation of our faith and the source of our hope. This is the Gospel - the Good News that we are called to celebrate and share with the world!

 

[Andrew Stephen]

Peace to all,

To me the "RI" Real Intelligence is the logic in the Power of The "Divine Spirit" will. From where does the ""First Spirit" of choice come from? And to where does the "First Spirit" go? We know logically, the "Spirit" can come from anywhere and blow to anyplace manifested through the flesh by the spirit selected. Through choice from the spirit blown through the flesh to Body of the being becomes The Created Soul. With the freedom to pick and choose, the spirit manifests, or becomes The Body's authority. The Created Being in the Body is the authority of the Created Body manifested by the power of the spirit through the flesh of the Body of the Being. Choice is created to allow the being to become the will of The Creator. The infallible "RI" real intelligence that manifests immortality and incorruptibility of the Body to become glorified and transfigured is in the Power of "The Divine Spirit". Re-imaging of the "First" Spirit is what removed the pattern of defiled internal temptation, or choice. Any chance of failure is not allowed in the New Eden, Heaven and Earth resurrected as regenerated by the Will of The Creator. Erased and regenerated is the "RI" image that is The Word. The Word is the Authority and of Spirit and Life to manifest without failure for all eternity, and existed before creation was ever created was even created. The Word is the being in person, delivered by The Arc of the New Covenant, through Mary, in The Person of Christ. Christ "Gave up the Ghost" the "Ghost" is the Person of the Divine Spirit will of The Creator, God, The Father. The Person of The Word became flesh through the Person of The Christ to share as united in being in the Body of God for all mankind becoming His image. What Christ left is The Paraclete to unite all mankind as one in being together with the Father and The Son from mortality, to incorruptibility and immortality becoming glorified and transfigured to the "RI," the Divine Intelligence in The Body of God in all mankind as "What would Jesus do in all cases of fulfilled faith and morality."

Peace always,
Stephen Andrew

 

[Kenny]

The Gospel - the Good News of Jesus Christ - encompasses both the profound mystery of his sacrificial death on the cross and the glorious triumph of his resurrection. These are not separate events, but two inseparable aspects of Christ's Mystery that together form the heart of our faith.

In Christ's death on the cross, we see the ultimate expression of God's love and mercy. Jesus freely gave his life to atone for our sins and reconcile us to the Father. His sacrifice opens the way to our salvation.

Yet the story does not end at the cross. On the third day, Christ rose victorious over sin and death! The resurrection is God's seal of approval on Christ's sacrifice. It vindicates Jesus as the Son of God and demonstrates his power over death itself. The risen Christ gives us hope for eternal life and sends us forth to proclaim the Good News.

So we do not simply commemorate a past event. In the Eucharist, we participate in Christ's death and resurrection here and now. And we look forward in joyful hope to sharing fully in the resurrection when Christ returns in glory.

Let us therefore proclaim with St. Paul: "If Christ has not been raised, our preaching is useless and so is your faith" (1 Cor 15:14). The cross and resurrection together form the foundation of our faith and the source of our hope. This is the Gospel - the Good News that we are called to celebrate and share with the world!

That encapsulates our beliefs and your scripture reference is well applied.

Thank you for enumerating clearly our belief!

In our faith, we understand that since Jesus who bore our sin and then resurrected it becomes a declaration that we are forgiven and will also be resurrected.

 

[Andrew Stephen]

Peace to all,

The Transfigurtion is what Peter, James and John witnessed when Moses and Elijah dissapeared in a cloud and Jesus was left standing alone as One Tent. James and John and Peter were told not to talk about The Transfiguration until after His Resurrection. The Return is for the delivery of The Paraclete to all mankind as united in being. The Pentecost of The Church was in the upper room, when Thomas said, "My Lord, and My God." To me, this is the logical beginning of the Church of Christ.

To me, The Epiphany, the manifestation of God in the Body of all mankind, is the Pentecost of the Flesh and Soul of Christ at the Baptism in the Jordan river by His Cousin John when God said, "Behold, My Son in whom I am well pleased." To me to become gloriously transfigured is logically the state of sanctified in the spirit through the flesh to the soul of the Being in the Body of Christ.

Peace always,
Stephen Andrew

 

[Andrew Stephen]

I find that Adam was formed or fashioned from the dust of the ground - Gen. 2:7
Adam did Not come to life until God ' breathed ' the 'breath of life' into life-less Adam
Adam went from non-life, to life, and 'returned back' to non-life - Gen. 3:19
A person can ' Not return' to a place he never before was

P.S. angels were already in existence created before humankind - Job 38:7

Peace to all,

Ashes to ashes, dust to dust.
The angels know of the coming power of The Body, sanctified in spirit through the flesh to the soul of Man in Heaven.

Jesus is conceived from Heaven, and His sacrifice is the Exodus, the Host, His Body, Spirit and life, soul and divinity which transforms and transfigures The Body by contact.

To me, the logic is we become immortal and in corruptible through the Baptism of the Body of Christ. And through Penance and Confirmation in Communion with Him we become glorified and re-sanctified gloriously transfiguring into His image returning from now where we became, The New Eden, the fulfilled Heaven and Earth, Heaven.

We welcome the Angels.

Peace always,
Stephen Andrew

 

[Redneck Mystic]

Certainly living as he lives should be our goal. !!

f/rom what I’ve read and been told by people from various spiritual traditions, what’s important is how we live, not so much what we believe about this or that, but how we relate to this world and people and what life serves up to us each day. In the Gospels, Jesus modeled and taught people an entirely new way to live, and in that way move closer to God. He thought that was really important. I came to the view that to the extent Christians live as Jesus lived and taught in the Gospels, they are saved by him.

 

[Kenny]

Peace to all,

The Transfigurtion is what Peter, James and John witnessed when Moses and Elijah dissapeared in a cloud and Jesus was left standing alone as One Tent. James and John and Peter were told not to talk about The Transfiguration until after His Resurrection. The Return is for the delivery of The Paraclete to all mankind as united in being. The Pentecost of The Church was in the upper room, when Thomas said, "My Lord, and My God." To me, this is the logical beginning of the Church of Christ.

To me, The Epiphany, the manifestation of God in the Body of all mankind, is the Pentecost of the Flesh and Soul of Christ at the Baptism in the Jordan river by His Cousin John when God said, "Behold, My Son in whom I am well pleased." To me to become gloriously transfigured is logically the state of sanctified in the spirit through the flesh to the soul of the Being in the Body of Christ.

Peace always,
Stephen Andrew

What I received from the transfiguration was the reality of the Spirit of Christ. As they looked at the outward man, they saw a man. But the reality was the Spirit in Christ, the reality of who he really was, The Word made flesh! The LIght of the World!!

Then another mystery where we are joined the the Paraclete - where we become one spirit the God Himself through Jesus Christ! 1 Cor 6:17 But he that is joined unto the Lord is one spirit.

He now has empowered mankind to also be a light to the world. Inside our natural bodies is the same Light the lights the world fueled by the same Spirit that rested on Jesus Christ.

Of course, this is the perspective of a Christ follower (readers pleas read my signature).

May my wick be trimmed to where the Christ in me shines without any smoke of my humanness.

 

[Kenny]

f/rom what I’ve read and been told by people from various spiritual traditions, what’s important is how we live, not so much what we believe about this or that, but how we relate to this world and people and what life serves up to us each day. In the Gospels, Jesus modeled and taught people an entirely new way to live, and in that way move closer to God. He thought that was really important. I came to the view that to the extent Christians live as Jesus lived and taught in the Gospels, they are saved by him.

I think those are conjoined twins with one heart. However the one heart residing in what we believe.

I liken it unto the relationship between a father and child. First and foremost it is the blood relationship that has the preeminence. In that relationship, it isn’t based on works but on blood.

That being said, now that there is a relationship that overshadows any and all works, there is a process to grow in knowledge and capacity to live out what one believes. If one messes up in the living of the belief, fellowship may be hindered but relationship (faith) is still maintained.

 

[Redneck Mystic]

I think those are conjoined twins with one heart. However the one heart residing in what we believe.

I liken it unto the relationship between a father and child. First and foremost it is the blood relationship that has the preeminence. In that relationship, it isn’t based on works but on blood.

That being said, now that there is a relationship that overshadows any and all works, there is a process to grow in knowledge and capacity to live out what one believes. If one messes up in the living of the belief, fellowship may be hindered but relationship (faith) is still maintained.

Maybe fellowship with God is affected by how one behaves? I was raised in Christendom, and I do not think just believing Jesus was the son of God translates to salvation through Jesus. Actions speak much louder. And, I think anyone who lives as Jesus lived and taught in the Gospels, even a Buddhist, or a Jew, or a Mulsim, or even an Atheist, is in good standing with God. I do not speak from belief, but from daily direct experiences with angels known in the Bible since early 1987. They changed my perspective of everything, including me, and they went about it many ways, but the main way was stading me before endless mirrors looking at me, and they still do that, and they do not claim to represent Christianity, nor any religion. but to God they are allegiant.

 

[Kenny]

Maybe fellowship with God is affected by how one behaves?

Yes… Hoping that is what you understood in what i posted. Relationship abides but our actions, like unforgiveness, will hinder our capacity of intimate fellowship

I was raised in Christendom, and I do not think just believing Jesus was the son of God translates to salvation through Jesus.

I think it does. Every person who comes to Jesus has absolutely nothing good to offer in works or deeds to merit salvation. God so loved the world even when the world did not love Him nor deserved salvation.

Actions speak much louder.

Can’t argue that reality. But when I look at the book of Acts or Corinthians we can see that salvation was effective even when their actions needed great correction.

Like a baby that dirties his/her diapers, messes are expected but you don’t throw the baby out with the dirty diapers.

And, I think anyone who lives as Jesus lived and taught in the Gospels, even a Buddhist, or a Jew, or a Mulsim, or even an Atheist, is in good standing with God. I do not speak from belief, but from daily direct experiences with angels known in the Bible since early 1987. They changed my perspective of everything, including me, and they went about it many ways, but the main way was stading me before endless mirrors looking at me, and they still do that, and they do not claim to represent Christianity, nor any religion. but to God they are allegiant.

I leave the judging of hearts to God. I also don’t accept what an angel says unless it is congruent with God’s word. Satan comes as an angel of light but he is a wolf in sheep's clothing

 

[Redneck Mystic]

Yes… Hoping that is what you understood in what i posted. Relationship abides but our actions, like unforgiveness, will hinder our capacity of intimate fellowship



I think it does. Every person who comes to Jesus has absolutely nothing good to offer in works or deeds to merit salvation. God so loved the world even when the world did not love Him nor deserved salvation.



Can’t argue that reality. But when I look at the book of Acts or Corinthians we can see that salvation was effective even when their actions needed great correction.

Like a baby that dirties his/her diapers, messes are expected but you don’t throw the baby out with the dirty diapers.



I leave the judging of hearts to God. I also don’t accept what an angel says unless it is congruent with God’s word. Satan comes as an angel of light but he is a wolf in sheep's clothing

If you mead by Gods word, the Bible, it was written by men, and it was men who decided which parts of handed down manuscripts wold in the Bible, and they decided nothing wtitten by women would be in the Bible. If you lived in my skin a little while, you. would know the angels on by case work for God and sometimes you might even wish there was no God .

I leave salvation to God, too, and when I read the Gospels, I see Jesus was very big on people learning to live differently from how they were living, and he began that approach with his disciples, and they really struggled with it, and when he left them they were still behaving like little boys and only after the Holy Spirit entered them at Pentecost and sprouted the seeds he planted in them did they grow up and become useful to God. The same happened to Paul after his commeupance as Saul on the road to Damascus. He went through a really rough patch before he emerged as something God could use.

John the Baptist said one would come whose sandals he was not worthy to latch and that one would baptize in fire and in spirit, and Jesus came and John recognized him and baptized him water, which Jesus never did to anyone after that, but he said his baptism was in fire and he was anxious to get on with it. He said such things as many are called, but few are chosen; the road to life is difficult and the gate narrrow and few enter, the work is great and the laborers are few. I cannot reconcile that will the quick and painless salvation by Jesus the early church came up with.

Consider what the unknown author of the Letter to the Hebrews wrote to Jews who had acceptwd Christ but the going was so rough that they fell back not their old ways. The author told them they should be teachers, they should be eating meat, but they were still drinking milk, and then the author told them:

Hebrews 12 NIV

12 Therefore, since we are surrounded by such a great cloud of witnesses, let us throw off everything that hinders and the sin that so easily entangles. And let us run with perseverance the race marked out for us, 2 fixing our eyes on Jesus, the pioneer and perfecter of faith. For the joy set before him he endured the cross, scorning its shame, and sat down at the right hand of the throne of God. 3 Consider him who endured such opposition from sinners, so that you will not grow weary and lose heart.
4 In your struggle against sin, you have not yet resisted to the point of shedding your blood. 5 And have you completely forgotten this word of encouragement that addresses you as a father addresses his son? It says,
“My son, do not make light of the Lord’s discipline, and do not lose heart when he rebukes you, 6 because the Lord disciplines the one he loves, and he chastens everyone he accepts as his son.”
7 Endure hardship as discipline; God is treating you as his children.For what children are not disciplined by their father? 8 If you are not disciplined—and everyone undergoes discipline—then you are not legitimate, not true sons and daughters at all. 9 Moreover, we have all had human fathers who disciplined us and we respected them for it. How much more should we submit to the Father of spirits and live! 10 They disciplined us for a little while as they thought best; but God disciplines us for our good, in order that we may share in his holiness. 11 No discipline seems pleasant at the time, but painful. Later on, however, it produces a harvest of righteousness and peace for those who have been trained by it.
12 Therefore, strengthen your feeble arms and weak knees.13 “Make level paths for your feet,” so that the lame may not be disabled, but rather healed.
14 Make every effort to live in peace with everyone and to be holy;without holiness no one will see the Lord. 15 See to it that no one falls short of the grace of God and that no bitter root grows up to cause trouble and defile many. 16 See that no one is sexually immoral, or is godless like Esau, who for a single meal sold his inheritance rights as the oldest son. 17 Afterward, as you know, when he wanted to inherit this blessing, he was rejected. Even though he sought the blessing with tears, he could not change what he had done.
18 You have not come to a mountain that can be touched and that is burning with fire; to darkness, gloom and storm; 19 to a trumpet blast or to such a voice speaking words that those who heard it begged that no further word be spoken to them, 20 because they could not bear what was commanded: “If even an animal touches the mountain, it must be stoned to death.” 21 The sight was so terrifying that Moses said, “I am trembling with fear.”
22 But you have come to Mount Zion, to the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem. You have come to thousands upon thousands of angels in joyful assembly, 23 to the church of the firstborn, whose names are written in heaven. You have come to God, the Judge of all, to the spirits of the righteous made perfect,24 to Jesus the mediator of a new covenant, and to the sprinkled blood that speaks a better word than the blood of Abel.
25 See to it that you do not refuse him who speaks. If they did not escape when they refused him who warned them on earth, how much less will we, if we turn away from him who warns us from heaven? 26 At that time his voice shook the earth, but now he has promised, “Once more I will shake not only the earth but also the heavens.”[e] 27 The words “once more” indicate the removing of what can be shaken—that is, created things—so that what cannot be shaken may remain.
28 Therefore, since we are receiving a kingdom that cannot be shaken, let us be thankful, and so worship God acceptably with reverence and awe, 29 for our “God is a consuming fire.”

I never heard that passage discussed in a Christian church,and was in a lot of church services before I realized I’m in church wherever I am and the Devil of where the Deivl of which you spoke corrector likes to hide, because no one in a church would hink to look for the Devil there

 

[Kenny]

If you mead by Gods word, the Bible, it was written by men, and it was men who decided which parts of handed down manuscripts wold in the Bible, and they decided nothing wtitten by women would be in the Bible. If you lived in my skin a little while, you. would know the angels on by case work for God and sometimes you might even wish there was no God .

Well… this is the nature of man—differences. But I believe God’s ways and thought are highers than ours.

Man may have penned the words, but the God was the one who dictated what to right.

Yes… angels work for God. But there are principalities, rulers, powers eta l that don’t.

I leave salvation to God, too, and when I read the Gospels, I see Jesus was very big on people learning to live differently from how they were living, and he began that approach with his disciples, and they really struggled with it, and when he left them they were still behaving like little boys and only after the Holy Spirit entered them at Pentecost and sprouted the seeds he planted in them did they grow up and become useful to God. The same happened to Paul after his commeupance as Saul on the road to Damascus. He went through a really rough patch before he emerged as something God could use.

Yes… the words sprout in hearts and they change us. Agree completely.

John the Baptist said one would come whose sandals he was not worthy to latch and that one would baptize in fire and in spirit, and Jesus came and John recognized him and baptized him water, which Jesus never did to anyone after that, but he said his baptism was in fire and he was anxious to get on with it. He said such things as many are called, but few are chosen; the road to life is difficult and the gate narrrow and few enter, the work is great and the laborers are few. I cannot reconcile that will the quick and painless salvation by Jesus the early church came up with.

Yes! After I was filled with the Holy Spirit and fire of God, it has been a wonderful journey.

Consider what the unknown author of the Letter to the Hebrews wrote to Jews who had acceptwd Christ but the going was so rough that they fell back not their old ways. The author told them they should be teachers, they should be eating meat, but they were still drinking milk, and then the author told them:

Yes… so true.

I never heard that passage discussed in a Christian church,and was in a lot of church services before I realized I’m in church wherever I am and the Devil of where the Deivl of which you spoke corrector likes to hide, because no one in a church would hink to look for the Devil there

Interesting… not sure what churches you have been in. I have heard them preach on these often.

 

[Andrew Stephen]

Peace to all,

To me the Logic of the "RI" real intelligence is what would Jesus do in all cases of fulfilled faith and morality? What was so wrong that God in the flesh had to return to die and resurrect? To me the logic is in the behavior, the pattern, the image of the Creator that existed before creation was ever created was even created. To me the logic is the Will of The Creator as the Person of The Divine Spirit. No "AI" artificial intelligence allowed in eternity because He will have no part in defiling His Eternity, in fulfilled faith and morality in through and to the infallible logic of the person of the Divine, some say Holy Spirit will of God that will never fail fulfilled creation.

To me The Door is open to all mankind, the Exodus is Greek for the Road becoming created mortal to transformed sanctified immortal to gloriously transfigured.

We know we get Holy, in the regenerated, confirmed and re-sanctified spirit through the flesh to the soul of the Body of Our Christ becoming the Image of The Creator, God, The Father. The autonomy of the Body of Christ and the Power of the person of the Holy Spirit allows the being connected to the same power to stand as justified and self righteous for glorification through fulfilled faith and morality.

Peace always,
Stephen Andrew

 

[Redneck Mystic]

Well… this is the nature of man—differences. But I believe God’s ways and thought are highers than ours.

Well… this is the nature of man—differences. But I believe God’s ways and thought are highers than ours.

Man may have penned the words, but the God was the one who dictated what to right.

Yes… angels work for God. But there are principalities, rulers, powers eta l that don’t.



Yes… the words sprout in hearts and they change us. Agree completely.


Yes! After I was filled with the Holy Spirit and fire of God, it has been a wonderful journey.

Yes… so true.


Interesting… not sure what churches you have been in. I have heard them preach on these often.

Well… this is the nature of man—differences. But I believe God’s ways and thought are highers than ours.

Man may have penned the words, but the God was the one who dictated what to right.

Yes… angels work for God. But there are principalities, rulers, powers eta l that don’t.



Yes… the words sprout in hearts and they change us. Agree completely.


Yes! After I was filled with the Holy Spirit and fire of God, it has been a wonderful journey.

Yes… so true.


Interesting… not sure what churches you have been in. I have heard them preach on these often.

Man may have penned the words, but the God was the one who dictated what to right.

Yes… angels work for God. But there are principalities, rulers, powers eta l that don’t.



Yes… the words sprout in hearts and they change us. Agree completely.


Yes! After I was filled with the Holy Spirit and fire of God, it has been a wonderful journey.

Yes… so true.


Interesting… not sure what churches you have been in. I have heard them preach on these often.

How do you know God told men what to write and include in the Bible? How do

Well… this is the nature of man—differences. But I believe God’s ways and thought are highers than ours.

Man may have penned the words, but the God was the one who dictated what to right.

Yes… angels work for God. But there are principalities, rulers, powers eta l that don’t.



Yes… the words sprout in hearts and they change us. Agree completely.


Yes! After I was filled with the Holy Spirit and fire of God, it has been a wonderful journey.

Yes… so true.


Interesting… not sure what churches you have been in. I have heard them preach on these often.

How do we know God dictated the Bible to men? How do we know Satan did not also do some dictating to those men?
In the Gospels, Jesus said the way is difficult and the gate is narrow and few enter therein, and the church says all who believe Jesus was the son of God who died for their sins die and go to heaven. I cannot reconcile that very wide chasm, but the church seems to reconcile it by fiat, and I think Satan really likes that.
The soul is eternal, and living on this world in a human body is an experience, but it is not anywhere close to the whole experience. Yet, the church says, it is one shot at it, and after physical death, it’s heaven or hell, unless you are catholic, and there is. purgatory as well.
The Eastern spiritual traditions and the aborigine spiritual traditions viewed life on this world as a piece of something much greater and there was no all or nothing, heaven or hell. In the Gospels, Jesus gave sight to a man born blind, and afterward his disciples asked him who had sinned, the man or his parents, so that he was born blind? How could a man have sinned before he was born, but in a prior life somewhere?Jesus did not rebuke the disciples for the question, but he said the man was born blind so that on that day the glory of God could be made manifest.
In another passage, the disciples asked Jesus if Elijah had returned and he said yes, but he was not recognized, and they understood he spoke to them of John the Baptist.
I tell Christians, to the extent they live as Jesus lived and taught in the Gospels, they are saved by him. I also tell them Jesus told his disciples that he had flocks of which they did not know, and where were those flocks?
There are indeed angels who are not in service to God, and demons, and I deal with them all the time, and I have dealt with them in churches. Every human being has a demonic twin, and coming to terms with that is part of the journey. Jesus dealt with his demonic twin in the wilderness and later.
The angels who dragooned me in early 1987 stood me. before many mirrors looking at what was inside of me, and they still do it,, and it’s no fun, but it is necessary.
It is not finished until we stop breathing and pass to the afterlife where we see things very differently, and we have a life review, to the extent we did not have it before we stopped breathing, and then we move on to the next thing God has in store for us.
The church does not care for that perspective, because it does not put people in fear of eternal damnation if they do not attend church and give it their money. The pastor of the Episcipal church in which I grew up, after my mother yanked me out of the Southern Baptist Church, which was the church of her and my father’s parents, hated preaching tithing to the church, and he only did it once a year, when the Diocese made him do it.
Not long after he told his vestrymen, if they used local off duty cops to stop black from attending their church, he would close the church, he left that church, which he had built from scratch to a huge church, and he took a small rural Episcopal parish, where he remained until he left this life.
Over time, the church he had built from scratch started having financial difficulties, and the woman i was with was a devout member and she felt like she would die and burn forever in hell if she did not attend Sunday services there, and I was their with her when the priest in that church and lay member sin that church came reminded the congregation that Jesus had said to be a generous giver, good measure pressed down, and to give more money to the church, and my lady was as if stung by a wasp and she blanched and seemed to have trouble breathing.

 

[Ebionite]

In the Gospels, Jesus said the way is difficult and the gate is narrow and few enter therein, and the church says all who believe Jesus was the son of God who died for their sins die and go to heaven. I cannot reconcile that very wide chasm, but the church seems to reconcile it by fiat, and I think Satan really likes that.

The word holy is a translation of the Hebrew word qodesh, meaning set-apart. Catholic, from catholika, means universal.

 

[Kenny]

How do we know God dictated the Bible to men?

Three reasons:

1) God said, “Write it down"
2) The prophets spoke (wrote) and it happened like they said
3) Jesus quoted what they said.

How do we know Satan did not also do some dictating to those men?

He did to some men. They were called “false prophets”.

In the Gospels, Jesus said the way is difficult and the gate is narrow and few enter therein, and the church says all who believe Jesus was the son of God who died for their sins die and go to heaven. I cannot reconcile that very wide chasm, but the church seems to reconcile it by fiat, and I think Satan really likes that.

There are three groups of people mentioned in the Bible and that being “Jews, Gentiles, and those who belong to the Church of God:

1 Corinthians 10:32 Give none offence, neither to the Jews, nor to the Gentiles, nor to the church of God:

So the first thing we have to do is see to whom is he speaking to. His audience isn’t the Gentiles nor is he speaking to the church of God. He is speaking to the Jews. So, to apply “few” to “Church of God” would be to apply a message targeting to a specific group to a group that he wasn’t being addressed.

What we do know is that he was speaking to his Jewish brothers

Next, we also have to address context. There are multiple points.

1) He mentions to the Jews “False Prophets” vs “The Gate - Jesus” - so we can say that it is narrow as compared to false prophets.
2) He mentions the who call Jesus “Lord” who he doesn’t recognize. God is the judge of hearts, not me and not you.
3) The best method we can hope to understand is to look at the fruit of the tree.

Last, our view of “few” may not be God’s view of few. When we add all the people that will be accepted, it has been mentioned in Rev 7:9 After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands; 10 And cried with a loud voice, saying, Salvation to our God which sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb.

That doesn’t sound like the “few” that you are talking about.

The soul is eternal, and living on this world in a human body is an experience, but it is not anywhere close to the whole experience. Yet, the church says, it is one shot at it, and after physical death, it’s heaven or hell, unless you are catholic, and there is. purgatory as well.

There is no scripture on “purgatory”. I find that to be a false doctrine.

The Eastern spiritual traditions and the aborigine spiritual traditions viewed life on this world as a piece of something much greater and there was no all or nothing, heaven or hell. In the Gospels, Jesus gave sight to a man born blind, and afterward his disciples asked him who had sinned, the man or his parents, so that he was born blind? How could a man have sinned before he was born, but in a prior life somewhere?Jesus did not rebuke the disciples for the question, but he said the man was born blind so that on that day the glory of God could be made manifest.

I find that to be a wrong view on this scripture. The original Greek had no commas, question marks, colons or periods or even capital letters.

2 And his disciples asked him, saying, Master, who did sin, this man, or his parents, that he was born blind? This was the question.

3 Jesus answered, Neither hath this man sinned, nor his parents - Question answered

But, that the works of God should be made manifest in him. 4 I must work the works of him that sent me, while it is day: the night cometh, when no man can work. So, it did not matter how but rather Jesus came to bring the Kingdom living to the earth and healed the man.

In another passage, the disciples asked Jesus if Elijah had returned and he said yes, but he was not recognized, and they understood he spoke to them of John the Baptist.
I tell Christians, to the extent they live as Jesus lived and taught in the Gospels, they are saved by him. I also tell them Jesus told his disciples that he had flocks of which they did not know, and where were those flocks?

Again… you can’t take one scripture and forget the rest of the scriptures. Jesus said, John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

Notice he didn’t say “live a perfect life” but rather simply “Believes”. Of course we should strive to live right, but it isn’t the basis for relationship. Paul reiterates it when he said, “Not by works lest any man should boast, it is a gift from God”. Ephesian 2:9

There are indeed angels who are not in service to God, and demons, and I deal with them all the time, and I have dealt with them in churches. Every human being has a demonic twin, and coming to terms with that is part of the journey. Jesus dealt with his demonic twin in the wilderness and later.
The angels who dragooned me in early 1987 stood me. before many mirrors looking at what was inside of me, and they still do it,, and it’s no fun, but it is necessary.
It is not finished until we stop breathing and pass to the afterlife where we see things very differently, and we have a life review, to the extent we did not have it before we stopped breathing, and then we move on to the next thing God has in store for us.

Maybe you are judging the spirits like the Bible said we should? I don’t see any support given by Jesus, the prophets or the Apostles to support that position.

It is not finished until we stop breathing and pass to the afterlife where we see things very differently, and we have a life review, to the extent we did not have it before we stopped breathing, and then we move on to the next thing God has in store for us.
The church does not care for that perspective, because it does not put people in fear of eternal damnation if they do not attend church and give it their money. The pastor of the Episcipal church in which I grew up, after my mother yanked me out of the Southern Baptist Church, which was the church of her and my father’s parents, hated preaching tithing to the church, and he only did it once a year, when the Diocese made him do it.
Not long after he told his vestrymen, if they used local off duty cops to stop black from attending their church, he would close the church, he left that church, which he had built from scratch to a huge church, and he took a small rural Episcopal parish, where he remained until he left this life.
Over time, the church he had built from scratch started having financial difficulties, and the woman i was with was a devout member and she felt like she would die and burn forever in hell if she did not attend Sunday services there, and I was their with her when the priest in that church and lay member sin that church came reminded the congregation that Jesus had said to be a generous giver, good measure pressed down, and to give more money to the church, and my lady was as if stung by a wasp and she blanched and seemed to have trouble breathing.

As I said above, if there is no scriptural support, we should question, instruct and, if necessary, rebuke.

 

[Kenny]

How do we know God dictated the Bible to men?

Three reasons:

1) God said, “Write it down"
2) The prophets spoke (wrote) and it happened like they said
3) Jesus quoted what they said.

How do we know Satan did not also do some dictating to those men?

He did to some men. They were called “false prophets”.

In the Gospels, Jesus said the way is difficult and the gate is narrow and few enter therein, and the church says all who believe Jesus was the son of God who died for their sins die and go to heaven. I cannot reconcile that very wide chasm, but the church seems to reconcile it by fiat, and I think Satan really likes that.

There are three groups of people mentioned in the Bible and that being “Jews, Gentiles, and those who belong to the Church of Godr:

1 Corinthians 10:32 Give none offence, neither to the Jews, nor to the Gentiles, nor to the church of God:

So the first thing we have to do is see to whom is he speaking to. His audience isn’t the Gentiles nor is he speaking to the church of God. He is speaking to the Jews. So, to apply “few” to “Church of God” would be to apply a message targeting to a specific group to a group that he wasn’t being addressed.

What we do know is that

Next, we also have to address context. There are multiple points.

1) He mentions to the Jews “False Prophets” vs “The Gate - Jesus” - so we can say that it is narrow as compared to false prophets.
2) He mentions the who call Jesus “Lord” who he doesn’t recognize. God is the judge of hearts, not me and not you.
3) The best method we can hope to understand is to look at the fruit of the tree.

Last, our view of “few” may not be God’s view of few. When we add all the people that will be accepted, it has been mentioned in Rev 7:9 After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands; 10 And cried with a loud voice, saying, Salvation to our God which sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb.

That doesn’t sound like the “few” that you are talking about.

The soul is eternal, and living on this world in a human body is an experience, but it is not anywhere close to the whole experience. Yet, the church says, it is one shot at it, and after physical death, it’s heaven or hell, unless you are catholic, and there is. purgatory as well.

There is no scripture on “purgatory”. I find that to be a false doctrine.

The Eastern spiritual traditions and the aborigine spiritual traditions viewed life on this world as a piece of something much greater and there was no all or nothing, heaven or hell. In the Gospels, Jesus gave sight to a man born blind, and afterward his disciples asked him who had sinned, the man or his parents, so that he was born blind? How could a man have sinned before he was born, but in a prior life somewhere?Jesus did not rebuke the disciples for the question, but he said the man was born blind so that on that day the glory of God could be made manifest.

I find that to be a wrong view on this scripture. The original Greek had no commas, question marks, colons or periods or even capital letters.

2 And his disciples asked him, saying, Master, who did sin, this man, or his parents, that he was born blind? This was the question.

3 Jesus answered, Neither hath this man sinned, nor his parents - Question answered

But, that the works of God should be made manifest in him. 4 I must work the works of him that sent me, while it is day: the night cometh, when no man can work. So, it did not matter how but rather Jesus came to bring the Kingdom living to the earth and healed the man.

In another passage, the disciples asked Jesus if Elijah had returned and he said yes, but he was not recognized, and they understood he spoke to them of John the Baptist.
I tell Christians, to the extent they live as Jesus lived and taught in the Gospels, they are saved by him. I also tell them Jesus told his disciples that he had flocks of which they did not know, and where were those flocks?

Again… you can’t take one scripture and forget the rest of the scriptures. Jesus said, John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

Notice he didn’t say “live a perfect life” but rather simply “Believes”. Of course we should strive to live right, but it isn’t the basis for relationship. Paul reiterates it when he said, “Not by works lest any man should boast, it is a gift from God”. Ephesian 2:9

There are indeed angels who are not in service to God, and demons, and I deal with them all the time, and I have dealt with them in churches. Every human being has a demonic twin, and coming to terms with that is part of the journey. Jesus dealt with his demonic twin in the wilderness and later.
The angels who dragooned me in early 1987 stood me. before many mirrors looking at what was inside of me, and they still do it,, and it’s no fun, but it is necessary.
It is not finished until we stop breathing and pass to the afterlife where we see things very differently, and we have a life review, to the extent we did not have it before we stopped breathing, and then we move on to the next thing God has in store for us.

Maybe you should be judging the spirits like the Bible said we should? I don’t see any support given by Jesus, the prophets or the Apostles to support that position.

It is not finished until we stop breathing and pass to the afterlife where we see things very differently, and we have a life review, to the extent we did not have it before we stopped breathing, and then we move on to the next thing God has in store for us.
The church does not care for that perspective, because it does not put people in fear of eternal damnation if they do not attend church and give it their money. The pastor of the Episcipal church in which I grew up, after my mother yanked me out of the Southern Baptist Church, which was the church of her and my father’s parents, hated preaching tithing to the church, and he only did it once a year, when the Diocese made him do it.
Not long after he told his vestrymen, if they used local off duty cops to stop black from attending their church, he would close the church, he left that church, which he had built from scratch to a huge church, and he took a small rural Episcopal parish, where he remained until he left this life.
Over time, the church he had built from scratch started having financial difficulties, and the woman i was with was a devout member and she felt like she would die and burn forever in hell if she did not attend Sunday services there, and I was their with her when the priest in that church and lay member sin that church came reminded the congregation that Jesus had said to be a generous giver, good measure pressed down, and to give more money to the church, and my lady was as if stung by a wasp and she blanched and seemed to have trouble breathing.

As I said above, if there is no scriptural support, we should question, instruct.

 

[Redneck Mystic]

Three reasons:

1) God said, “Write it down"
2) The prophets spoke (wrote) and it happened like they said
3) Jesus quoted what they said.



He did to some men. They were called “false prophets”.



There are three groups of people mentioned in the Bible and that being “Jews, Gentiles, and those who belong to the Church of God:

1 Corinthians 10:32 Give none offence, neither to the Jews, nor to the Gentiles, nor to the church of God:

So the first thing we have to do is see to whom is he speaking to. His audience isn’t the Gentiles nor is he speaking to the church of God. He is speaking to the Jews. So, to apply “few” to “Church of God” would be to apply a message targeting to a specific group to a group that he wasn’t being addressed.

What we do know is that he was speaking to his Jewish brothers

Next, we also have to address context. There are multiple points.

1) He mentions to the Jews “False Prophets” vs “The Gate - Jesus” - so we can say that it is narrow as compared to false prophets.
2) He mentions the who call Jesus “Lord” who he doesn’t recognize. God is the judge of hearts, not me and not you.
3) The best method we can hope to understand is to look at the fruit of the tree.

Last, our view of “few” may not be God’s view of few. When we add all the people that will be accepted, it has been mentioned in Rev 7:9 After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands; 10 And cried with a loud voice, saying, Salvation to our God which sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb.

That doesn’t sound like the “few” that you are talking about.



There is no scripture on “purgatory”. I find that to be a false doctrine.


I find that to be a wrong view on this scripture. The original Greek had no commas, question marks, colons or periods or even capital letters.

2 And his disciples asked him, saying, Master, who did sin, this man, or his parents, that he was born blind? This was the question.

3 Jesus answered, Neither hath this man sinned, nor his parents - Question answered

But, that the works of God should be made manifest in him. 4 I must work the works of him that sent me, while it is day: the night cometh, when no man can work. So, it did not matter how but rather Jesus came to bring the Kingdom living to the earth and healed the man.



Again… you can’t take one scripture and forget the rest of the scriptures. Jesus said, John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

Notice he didn’t say “live a perfect life” but rather simply “Believes”. Of course we should strive to live right, but it isn’t the basis for relationship. Paul reiterates it when he said, “Not by works lest any man should boast, it is a gift from God”. Ephesian 2:9




Maybe you are judging the spirits like the Bible said we should? I don’t see any support given by Jesus, the prophets or the Apostles to support that position.


As I said above, if there is no scriptural support, we should question, instruct and, if necessary, rebuke.

How could a blind man si9n before was born, unless he had lived a prior life somewhere?
How could Elijah come back as John the Baptist?
Sorry, you are not persuading me.
I quote the Bible to Christians all the time to remind them of what actually was written when they seem to have forgotten or they spin it to suit them. However, the Bible was written by men, and men decided what scriptures of many to put into the Bible, and you were not there when they did that, nor was I, and we do not know if they were inspired by God or not, but only have their world for it, which was handed down through different people and scribes.
But you are entitled to your opinion, and some day, if not before you leave this life, then after, you will see better than you do now, as will everyone, including me.

 

[Andrew Stephen]

2 And his disciples asked him, saying, Master, who did sin, this man, or his parents, that he was born blind? This was the question.

3 Jesus answered, Neither hath this man sinned, nor his parents - Question answered

But, that the works of God should be made manifest in him. 4 I must work the works of him that sent me, while it is day: the night cometh, when no man can work. So, it did not matter how but rather Jesus came to bring the Kingdom living to the earth and healed the man.


Again… you can’t take one scripture and forget the rest of the scriptures. Jesus said, John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

Notice he didn’t say “live a perfect life” but rather simply “Believes”. Of course we should strive to live right, but it isn’t the basis for relationship. Paul reiterates it when he said, “Not by works lest any man should boast, it is a gift from God”. Ephesian 2:9

Peace to all,

This to me being born blind is a rare event in creation and does exist in the failed state of Man as Created Mortal and corrupt. And His stories, though they are documented history, present parables, teachings sometimes beyond the natural logic we posess. Born mortal and corrupt does not prevent birth defects. Life is a gift and eternal life, becoming immortality and incorruptibility, and glorified and transfigured is the greatest gift. To me becoming into the image of the Creator is logically how we will see The Creator, God, The Father, with new eyes. Born blind mortal to being able to see God as Transfigured is "The Gift." We know to love all mankind as Sons of God.

“All things have been committed to me by my Father. No one knows the Son except the Father, and no one knows the Father except the Son and those to whom the Son chooses to reveal him" in fulfilled faith and humanity.

We know to keep the "Door" open to all manking.

Peace always,
Stephen Andrew