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The Gospel of Jesus Christ

  • Thread starter angellous_evangellous
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angellous_evangellous

Guest
I wonder - how do you think that the work of the cross is affected to humanity? That is, if you believe that the death of Christ atones for sin, how do you think that this atonement is affected in the lives of people?

Is it by belief (=faith)?

Is it by grace?

I am of the opinion that the death of Christ atones for the sin of the entire world. God is able to place all divine and human evil onto the cross - take it on Godself - and offer forgiveness, reconciliation, and peace to the whole world. The benefit for belief in God/Christ while living is simply living in the knowledge of this good news. In death, we are all the same - believer or unbeliever - being judged by God according to our works and not our beliefs. I vote for grace.

footnotes:
Process Theology of the Cross
Christian responsibility to beg for mercy
 
nutshell

nutshell

Well-Known Member
In the end it is Grace, but until that moment we must do all we can to follow Jesus' example and keep his commandments.
 
PHOTOTAKER

PHOTOTAKER

Well-Known Member
27 And if men come unto me (jesus christ) I will show unto them their weakness. I give unto men weakness that they may be humble; and my grace is sufficient for all men that humble themselves before me; for if they humble themselves before me, and have faith in me, then will I make weak things become strong unto them.

i like this scrptor in the Book of Mormon it takes several parts of the bible to explain the samething and the bible leaves many questions...
 
Scuba Pete

Scuba Pete

Le plongeur avec attitude...
It is by love!

 Luke 7:44 Then he turned toward the woman and said to Simon, "Do you see this woman? I came into your house. You did not give me any water for my feet, but she wet my feet with her tears and wiped them with her hair. 45 You did not give me a kiss, but this woman, from the time I entered, has not stopped kissing my feet. 46 You did not put oil on my head, but she has poured perfume on my feet. 47 Therefore, I tell you, her many sins have been forgiven—for she loved much. But he who has been forgiven little loves little." 48 Then Jesus said to her, "Your sins are forgiven."
49 The other guests began to say among themselves, "Who is this who even forgives sins?"
50 Jesus said to the woman, "Your faith has saved you; go in peace." NIV

Love entails both faith and grace.
 
sojourner

sojourner

Annoyingly Progressive Since 2006
Grace. Absolutely. The rest is how we choose to respond to grace, and how we choose to live out our lives on earth. Those who believe and act accordingly live in right relationship. But nothing can take away the grace that has been imparted.
 
Katzpur

Katzpur

Not your average Mormon
It is by grace alone that we overcome death. It is by grace and a living faith in Jesus Christ that we have the potential to live in God's presence throughout eternity.
 
Quiddity

Quiddity

UndertheInfluenceofGiants
It is by Grace working in Love.

Take any of those out and you get 30,000 plus denominations. :D
 
FFH

FFH

Veteran Member
Angelous said:
wonder - how do you think that the work of the cross is affected to humanity? That is, if you believe that the death of Christ atones for sin, how do you think that this atonement is affected in the lives of people?

Is it by belief (=faith)?

Is it by grace?
Click to expand...
Faith in Jesus Christ is necessary for grace to take affect.

First, one must have faith (belief) in Jesus Christ, secondly, one must repent, and thirdly, the necessary ordinance must be performed, which is baptism by immersion, for the remission of sins, then we will receive grace (forgiveness of sins) and the laying on of hands, for the gift of the Holy Ghost, helps us endure (obstain from sin) to the end.
 
B

Bick

Member
Grace, of course. Undeserved favor from God which comes by faith. Just as we read in Eph. 2:8,9, "For by grace are ye saved through faith, and that not of yourselves. it is the gift of God."

Imagine! God is our saviour, through Christ's sacrifice, His shedding His blood on the cross. And God affirms the completeness of this, by raising Him from the dead.
Amen. Bick
 
sojourner

sojourner

Annoyingly Progressive Since 2006
FFH said:
Faith in Jesus Christ is necessary for grace to take affect.

First, one must have faith (belief) in Jesus Christ, secondly, one must repent, and thirdly, the necessary ordinance must be performed, which is baptism by immersion, for the remission of sins, then we will receive grace (forgiveness of sins) and the laying on of hands, for the gift of the Holy Ghost, helps us endure (obstain from sin) to the end.
Click to expand...

See the parts underlined:
This sounds awfully works-oriented to me. It sounds like the grace of God is limited by what we do.

Your post also appears to make grace seem conditional. In order for grace to be grace, it must be unconditional.

Your second paragraph is suspiciously formulaic and legalistic (kind of Pharisaical). It contains lots of "musts," qualifying actions on our part. Don't you think God is able to impart grace to humanity without our help? I just don't think God is that picayune about how we approach God.
 
Scuba Pete

Scuba Pete

Le plongeur avec attitude...
I am sure Naaman said the very same things.

Faith is just as much a work as baptism. In fact, it is identified as such, while baptism is not.
 
DavyCrocket2003

DavyCrocket2003

Well-Known Member
Because we are all God's children, he loves us dearly and wants All of us to return to him through the power of Christ's atonement. If he could, I am sure he would save us all regardless of what we did on earth. However, this doesn't seem natural. We can't expect God to be able to save us with no effort on our part. Jesus himself said 'no everyone who says lord, lord will enter into the kingdom of heaven, but he that doeth the will of my father which is in heaven.' To me it sounds like we must do the will of God.
Whether or not this is true, there is something that is. Jesus died on the cross for me and you. I am going to spend my life trying to follow him and his teachings out of love and gratitude for what he does for us.
 
Katzpur

Katzpur

Not your average Mormon
sojourner said:
See the parts underlined:
This sounds awfully works-oriented to me. It sounds like the grace of God is limited by what we do.

Your post also appears to make grace seem conditional. In order for grace to be grace, it must be unconditional.

Your second paragraph is suspiciously formulaic and legalistic (kind of Pharisaical). It contains lots of "musts," qualifying actions on our part. Don't you think God is able to impart grace to humanity without our help? I just don't think God is that picayune about how we approach God.
Click to expand...
The bottom line is that, if we need to have faith in Jesus Christ in order to be saved, His grace is contingent upon our faith. So the only way for grace to be "a gift" that requires nothing of us is for it to be given to every man, woman and child who has ever lived -- regardless of whether they believe in Him or not. I've had enough conversations with you to know that you believe that literally all will be saved. So, I'd have to admit that you are, at least, consistent, which is more than I can say for people who insist that our works count for nothing, and that all we have to do is believe in Jesus Christ. If faith in Jesus Christ is not a "work," I don't know what is. It requires a conscious decision on the part of the believer. Believing in Christ is literally "an act of faith," and therefore a "work."
 
nutshell

nutshell

Well-Known Member
Katzpur said:
The bottom line is that, if we need to have faith in Jesus Christ in order to be saved, His grace is contingent upon our faith. So the only way for grace to be "a gift" that requires nothing of us is for it to be given to every man, woman and child who has ever lived -- regardless of whether they believe in Him or not. I've had enough conversations with you to know that you believe that literally all will be saved. So, I'd have to admit that you are, at least, consistent, which is more than I can say for people who insist that our works count for nothing, and that all we have to do is believe in Jesus Christ. If faith in Jesus Christ is not a "work," I don't know what is. It requires a conscious decision on the part of the believer. Believing in Christ is literally "an act of faith," and therefore a "work."
Click to expand...

I don't disagree with you Katz, but even after this act or work of faith or any other work for that matter, we are all still sinners and fall short of the perfection that is God. No one will die in a perfect state, IMO. With that being the case, there is an element of completely unearned grace that will be bestowed upon us, making us pure enough to be brought before God.
 
Scuba Pete

Scuba Pete

Le plongeur avec attitude...
It appears that few really understand "grace": charis. While it is COMPLETELY FREE, it is not defined as anything that is free. So what is it? It saves us for sure, but what is it really? Grace must abound, but what in tarnation is it?

Charis. There are two words which were derived from Charis that are in use today: Character and Charisma. Jesus was "full" of grace because he had God's character.

We however, have to GROW in grace, that is to become more like God. Can we force this? No, because it is from GOD and not from us. It comes as we love others, just like Jesus did. Grace is like a muscle. The more we love like God the more that love transforms our hearts. God is love. So to become like God is to live a life of love as living sacrifices.

II Corinthians 3:17 Now the Lord is the Spirit, and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is freedom. 18 And we, who with unveiled faces all reflect the Lord's glory, are being transformed into his likeness with ever-increasing glory, which comes from the Lord, who is the Spirit. NIV
 
lunamoth

lunamoth

Will to love
NetDoc said:
It appears that few really understand "grace": charis. While it is COMPLETELY FREE, it is not defined as anything that is free. So what is it? It saves us for sure, but what is it really? Grace must abound, but what in tarnation is it?

Charis. There are two words which were derived from Charis that are in use today: Character and Charisma. Jesus was "full" of grace because he had God's character.

We however, have to GROW in grace, that is to become more like God. Can we force this? No, because it is from GOD and not from us. It comes as we love others, just like Jesus did. Grace is like a muscle. The more we love like God the more that love transforms our hearts. God is love. So to become like God is to live a life of love as living sacrifices.

II Corinthians 3:17 Now the Lord is the Spirit, and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is freedom. 18 And we, who with unveiled faces all reflect the Lord's glory, are being transformed into his likeness with ever-increasing glory, which comes from the Lord, who is the Spirit. NIV
Click to expand...

Great post netdoc.

luna
 
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