The Hamas Argument

[Alceste]

If you were to propose that the UN should depose Hamas, I'd give you a thumbs up. There are UN rules that would be in support of such an action.

You might also argue that all war is immoral - that general argument has merit.

But, your contention that Israel should not defend itself while Hamas commits war-crimes every time it launches a rocket from a civilian site simply doesn't hold any water. none.

I didn't make that argument. I believe I have pointed out that defending Israel does not necessarily require the intentional wanton slaughter of civilians in Gaza.

Both sides are guilty of war crimes. I would hope any sanctions on either side are fairly applied, rather than punishing one side while the other faces no consequences.

 

[Alceste]

Gosh. I am sick and tired of all this bloodlust.

It is disgusting, so very disgusting. I might as well be talking with dogs.

I feel your pain.

 

[dantech]

Hey guys. Guess who just violated the ceasefire! Can it be? The same guys that violated it every other time?

 

[Dirty Penguin]

Hey guys. Guess who just violated the ceasefire! Can it be? The same guys that violated it every other time?

Too good to last. It seems to be a theme over there.

 

[LuisDantas]

I feel your pain.

Thanks.

 

[LuisDantas]

Hey guys. Guess who just violated the ceasefire! Can it be? The same guys that violated it every other time?

Are you aware of any significant changes on the situation that would make a different result expected?

A certain respected member of the Jewish People is reputed to having once said something about doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.

Granted, there is no solid evidence that he did say it, but it makes sense anyway.

 

[TashaN]

I have not read the entire thread yet but from reading couple of pages, it's interesting for me to see how morality is applied in the West and how they view it. I'll keep watching this very interesting thread. I know this thread might not be directly about the topic of morality, but still, seeing all these different views tells me a lot more about a way of thinking more than just an opinion about a certain topic.

 

[Mycroft]

Gosh. I am sick and tired of all this bloodlust.

It is disgusting, so very disgusting. I might as well be talking with dogs.

You have my utmost sympathy.

 

[Mycroft]

Who here has a bloodlust, exactly? I know you're not referring to me, because I know you have enough intelligence to discern from my posts that I haven't attempted to condone, excuse, rationalize, or justify any of the civilian deaths caused by either side.

I think you can be reasonably sure that he's not referring to you, Our Lord Heathen, sir. I think he's referring to the obvious attitude of 'Yeah! Yeah! Hamas! Get'em! Bomb them mofo's to hell and everyone else who happens to be nearby!'

 

[Mycroft]

I have not read the entire thread yet but from reading couple of pages, it's interesting for me to see how morality is applied in the West and how they view it. I'll keep watching this very interesting thread. I know this thread might not be directly about the topic of morality, but still, seeing all these different views tells me a lot more about a way of thinking more than just an opinion about a certain topic.

You mean the morality of believing that we have a responsibility to protect innocent life and find other ways of dealing with terrorism other than unabashadly bombing everything and everyone in sight?

 

[Mycroft]

Huston, we are now departing earth orbit...

Are we indeed? Let's take a look at that:


Let's see how you get on with these numbers.

Palestinian deaths

• 1,030 men, including 671 civilians and 166 militants
• 219 women
• 414 children, including 246 boys and 161 girls

Israeli deaths

• 64 soldiers
• 2 civilians
• 1 Thai national in Israel

source: United Nations Office for the Coordination of Humanitarian Affairs - occupied Palestinian territory


Anyone who can still support the attacks after seeing so many civilian deaths should be ashamed of themselves. But of course, no tyranny is too small to get at that natural gas in Palestine, right?

 

[Flankerl]

But of course, no tyranny is too small to get at that natural gas in Palestine, right?

[citation needed for the thousands time]

 

[Mycroft]

[citation needed for the thousands time]

IDF's Gaza assault is to control Palestinian gas, avert Israeli energy crisis | Nafeez Ahmed | Environment | theguardian.com

I notice you ignored the death toll. Though not much is to be expected of someone who quotes Bill O'reilly in their signature.

 

[Flankerl]

IDF's Gaza assault is to control Palestinian gas, avert Israeli energy crisis | Nafeez Ahmed | Environment | theguardian.com

The whole article is a big [citation needed]. It makes a claim. Well thats not special.

I thought there was some kind of secret paper from the Israeli government.


Ah well.

 

[Mycroft]

I thought there was some kind of secret paper from the Israeli government.

So you can argue that it's a fabrication by 'dem ebil palestines'? Let's face it. You're never going to accept anything anyone shows you that paints Israel as the bad guy. You're so far gone down that rabbit hole that even light can't catch up with you. I'd suggest you return to cheering at Bill O'reilly on Youtube or something.

If I had may way I'd force both your countries to disarm.

 

[metis]

Are we indeed? Let's take a look at that:


Let's see how you get on with these numbers.

Palestinian deaths

• 1,030 men, including 671 civilians and 166 militants
• 219 women
• 414 children, including 246 boys and 161 girls

Israeli deaths

• 64 soldiers
• 2 civilians
• 1 Thai national in Israel

source: United Nations Office for the Coordination of Humanitarian Affairs - occupied Palestinian territory


Anyone who can still support the attacks after seeing so many civilian deaths should be ashamed of themselves. But of course, no tyranny is too small to get at that natural gas in Palestine, right?

Do you think Hamas has any responsibility for this, and if so, what exactly is it? If not, why not?

 

[Mycroft]

Do you think Hamas has any responsibility for this, and if so, what exactly is it? If not, why not?

I think that, given the benefits to gain, the balance of probability lies with Israel lying about the circumstances around those teenagers to renew hostilities knowing America (or more accuraetly USrael) would back them up. I'm not saying Hamas doesn't have a responsibility, it does, I'm saying Israel as the one claiming the moral highground has a greater responsibility.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Do you think Hamas has any responsibility for this, and if so, what exactly is it? If not, why not?

Responsibility is not a zero-sum game. There's quite a bit of joint responsibility in that death toll.

 

[Mycroft]

Responsibility is not a zero-sum game. There's quite a bit of joint responsibility in that death toll.

The numbers, howeverm, indicate that Hamas is not really any sort of threat to Israel that requires such heavy bombardment. If Israel has left Hamas alone the death toll would have been much, much lower on the palestinian side and probably around zero on the Israeli side. I think it's very hypocrtical of Israel to start/respond to a conflict and then point to a death toll that only exists due to their own actions as justification for carrying on.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

I think that, given the benefits to gain, the balance of probability lies with Israel lying about the circumstances around those teenagers to renew hostilities knowing America (or more accuraetly USrael) would back them up. I'm not saying Hamas doesn't have a responsibility, it does, I'm saying Israel as the one claiming the moral highground has a greater responsibility.

You call denigrate news sources as likely liars and forum members as sociopaths and then have the audacity to cable about the "moral high ground." That speaks volumes.