-
Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.
Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:- Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
- Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
- Access to private conversations with other members.
We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!
The homophobic mindset
- Thread starter Mr Spinkles
- Start date
Mr Spinkles
Mr
I feel terrible, knowing that you read that....I feel so ashamed.
Yes. That's what a phobia is--an irrational fear of or aversion to something. I know exactly how you feel and I know you're being earnest, because I used to feel the same way. What you're feeling, and what you've been lead to believe, is homophobia--not the villainous moustache-stroking cartoon version, but the subtle real-life version.tomspug said:
As for pornography.....that used to make me extremely uncomfortable, too. And masturbation, that was wrong as well. What a dirty little sinners we all are! I.m.o. it's all part of the package of conservative religious dogmas which set arbitrary moral imperatives which make it impossible for us to be good (thanks, George Orwell). This is designed to turn us into groveling, obedient sinners begging for forgiveness from, and pledging loyalty to, the authority--the Bible, the Church, the Dear Leader or whomever.
How many loving, clear-minded gay people have you encountered (in more than just a superficial way)? This isn't rhetorical, I'm genuinely curious.tomspug said:
*edit: And perhaps more importantly, how many gay people have you made an effort to get to know?
Last edited:
Mr Spinkles
Mr
These could have been my own words, when I was in the seventh grade. You think it's "wrong" based on irrational fears, misconceptions, and ignorance. Your stance is homophobic--again not the unrealistic cartoon-villain kind, but the subtle real-life kind.
Mr Spinkles
Mr
I forgot to mention another reason I raised my hand when the teacher asked who supports gay marriage: I was afraid if I didn't raise my hand, he would call on me and ask me why I was against gay marriage. It was suddenly so transparently obvious to me that I could offer no real reasons; just "I think it's wrong". And I could no longer believe it was wrong anymore. Admittedly, it was still unpleasant for me to think even about him holding hands over dinner with another man (I no longer feel that way); but it was not wrong, and I knew it.
texan1
Active Member
Thank you for this post Mr. Sprinkles. There are probably a lot of people with stories like this. I think people do seem to have a visceral, emotional response to homosexuality because they simply get "grossed out" by the idea of two men being together for example. They sort of think "eww. that can't be right." Then they search for evidence - religious, scientific or otherwise to try and justify this emotional response.
But the most important thing you bring up is ignorance. It doesn't matter what religious text or science book you put in front of me - after actually knowing many homosexuals throughout my life, you cannot convince me that their sexual orientation is a choice or that it is going to cause harm to society to let them marry the person they have been living with for years.
It's kind of weird, considering how small the gay population is, but a large percentage of my friends happen to be gay. My neighbors are a young gay couple, and since I work in the arts and live in a city with a large gay population....many of my closest friends and colleagues are gays and lesbians. And as you say they are normal people. It seems crazy that in the year 2008 people have to be convinced of that fact. Unfortunately, people see images of some drunk obnoxious crossdresser at a gay parade on tv and they think that's what homosexuality is about. (I for one do not know a gay person like that, though I know they are out there.) A person's sexual orientation doesn't define who they are. (Just like if I tell you I am heterosexual....you would still know essentially nothing about me.)The homosexuals I know are all different types of people with different lifestyles. Most of them are among the funniest, smartest, most honorable people I know. There are also a few who are jerks. Same as heterosexuals. Hopefully, over time, people will stop judging from a distance.
And when it comes to a religious perspective, the Bible to me is not clear. It can be interpreted so many different ways and Jesus never mentions it. Again I think people use a certain Old Testament quote to justify that emotional response. I would rather error on the side of love and acceptance.
But the most important thing you bring up is ignorance. It doesn't matter what religious text or science book you put in front of me - after actually knowing many homosexuals throughout my life, you cannot convince me that their sexual orientation is a choice or that it is going to cause harm to society to let them marry the person they have been living with for years.
It's kind of weird, considering how small the gay population is, but a large percentage of my friends happen to be gay. My neighbors are a young gay couple, and since I work in the arts and live in a city with a large gay population....many of my closest friends and colleagues are gays and lesbians. And as you say they are normal people. It seems crazy that in the year 2008 people have to be convinced of that fact. Unfortunately, people see images of some drunk obnoxious crossdresser at a gay parade on tv and they think that's what homosexuality is about. (I for one do not know a gay person like that, though I know they are out there.) A person's sexual orientation doesn't define who they are. (Just like if I tell you I am heterosexual....you would still know essentially nothing about me.)The homosexuals I know are all different types of people with different lifestyles. Most of them are among the funniest, smartest, most honorable people I know. There are also a few who are jerks. Same as heterosexuals. Hopefully, over time, people will stop judging from a distance.
And when it comes to a religious perspective, the Bible to me is not clear. It can be interpreted so many different ways and Jesus never mentions it. Again I think people use a certain Old Testament quote to justify that emotional response. I would rather error on the side of love and acceptance.
Don Penguinoini
Modi.
I second that view.
Autodidact
Intentionally Blank
(I shortened your post, cuz it wouldn't let me type anything!
While homosexuality DOES make me uncomfortable... so does pornography. I don't feel uncomfortable (I feel) in a selfish way. Thinking about the INDIVIDUAL in question, as a person, is what makes me uncomfortable. I know my views on this thread are unpopular, but I am not a homophobe. I earnestly feel that certain things are unhealthy, for the mind, heart and soul. Now, if I believe those things to be true, does that make me a homophobe?
I have no intention of telling people what to do. Maybe if I was a homophobe, I would, and there is no question that there IS a lot of homophobia out there. But there is a lot of "homophobia" that clearly ISN'T out there also. I have encountered a LOT of loving, clear-minded Christians in my short time on this planet, and I guarantee you that they are not sexually ignorant nor have never considered this topic with a large amount of thought.
I have no intention of PUSHING my "agenda", something which I neither have nor want. I have no intention of saying that I am right and others are wrong. But I am allowed to believe the things that I believe, and my belief, it seems clear to me, is an exercise in love. I would gladly like to be told if I have not been loving towards every kind of person, especially if there is anyone on this thread I have not been so towards.
I don't think that homophobia is a very useful term, or rather, it's misused. What we're talking about is basically disapproval of homosexuality.
I think it often stems from different views of morality. One view, which I'll call conservative, is that morality is about obeying rules. This is the conservative Christian view, that God has set certain rules in the Bible, and morality consists of following them. Another view, which I'll call liberal, is that morality consists of right dealing with other people, mostly based on empathy, harm and honesty. In this view, if caring for others involves breaking God's rules, then it's more important to care for others. In this view, since homosexuality doesn't harm anyone, it is moral. In the Conservative view, and interpreting the Bible that way, (at least male) homosexuality is wrong, because prohibited.
Now for my opinion, I think that the Conservative moral view is fundamentally flawed, as well as a more primitive and barbaric approach. This may be in part because I don't think there is such a thing as God, but also because it results in approving slavery and genocide, and disapproving gay love. I think that a true ethics should be founded primarily on our relationships with each other, consisting of what is most conducive to empathy, trust and love, as well as honesty.
DallasApple
Depends Upon My Mood..
I cant stand girly guys that are abnoxious..or girly GIRLS that are abnoxious.
I have one gay friend..that is just so loud..and talks in this whiny voice..he's very overbearing...and he's very animated..and I'll say it..a drama queen..
Sometimes I want to tell him to calm down and shut up..and quit spazzign out..But I feel the same way being around girls like that is my point..Its irritating..I guess its just more pronounced with him ..because he is a 6'3 dude..
Love
Dallas
Autodidact
Intentionally Blank
Or even a resistible attraction--why not?
Can YOU think of any distinction that might be relevant? Anything at all?
No, because it harms someone else that we need to protect.
It makes them wrong.
Yes, actually, you are.
Well, I don't agree with yours--who cares? I'm not living with it. Of course, you would never vote to deny them rights based on their lifestyle, would you? You wouldn't want someone to do that to you, would you?but I'm just using that as an example the same way you chose to compare gays with people chewing with their mouths open. I'm a Christian, and I've worked with some people that were openly gay. They were nice, funny, friendly, hardworking people. I liked them and enjoyed their company. I just didn't agree with their lifestyle.
Don Penguinoini
Modi.
THey can be gay, without having to be like that. Having to add babe onto the end of every sentence. Without having to push his chest out and rocking his head back with a dropped jaw. Looking like he is :foot:. They do not have to be annoying about it.
The big difference here is that it may very well be your place to look out for a child and exercise your judgement about what that child should and shouldn't do. When it comes to activities carried on between adults, this is most defintely not your place.
DallasApple
Depends Upon My Mood..
Well...its just the way they are..same as a girl can be very "dramatic"..Like my niece..she is 13..and she is SOOO hyper sensitive. loud/emotional.she practically squeals(Im mean to say litterally)..My sister and I joke about it..She does stuff like out of nowhere throw a bottle of Advil at my sos head( who is 12 and like a big teddy bear)..and screached..OH MY GO!! you just dont understand what its like to have to have a period!!! Im HORMONAL!!
...You will NEVER understand!!!!Love
Dallas
Don Penguinoini
Modi.
Well...its just the way they are..same as a girl can be very "dramatic"..Like my niece..she is 13..and she is SOOO hyper sensitive. loud/emotional.she practically squeals(Im mean to say litterally)..My sister and I joke about it..She does stuff like out of nowhere throw a bottle of Advil at my sos head( who is 12 and like a big teddy bear)..and screached..OH MY GO!! you just dont understand what its like to have to have a period!!! Im HORMONAL!!
Love
Dallas
Hahaha!!! Thats pretty funny
I know some pretty emotional girls. You have to really think before you say "Are you ok?"
DallasApple
Depends Upon My Mood..
Hahaha!!! Thats pretty funny
You have to really think before you even get around them at all...IOW ..can I handle whats most likley going to be the epitimy of drama and emotional outburst??
Can I handle listening to a story for 20 minutes about why this pair of jeans is OH MY GOD!!! too embarrasing to wear to school..And it escalates into tears and doors slamming and huffing and running up the staircase and babbling in a high pitched tone ????..
Love
Dallas
DallasApple
Depends Upon My Mood..
I realize that..Or at least thats what Im hoping..She has friends..that are the complete oppsite..They are totally calm..reasonable...
I also think my niece is ROYALLY spoiled..She is manipulates my sister..But my sister is deserving IMO...because my sister lets her get away with it for the most part..
Anyway..back on topic..
I was just saying "flamboyant" gay guys aren't necessarily TRYING to be abnoxious..
Love
Dallas
DallasApple
Depends Upon My Mood..
Yeah, some guys are just natural flamers.
I think it's cute, so long as they're not also drama queens.
Yes..I have another gay friend..(I've known him since birth..he's only 20 now..)..
He's very "girlish"(ya now..in the streotypical way)...His mannerisms..the way he talks..even his interest..But he's not "obnoxious"..He's also one of the happiest cheeriest (gay ) upbeat..people I know..He's just plain old sweet..
Love
Dallas
Last edited: