The Homosexual Minority

[Pah]

From an article in About http://atheism.about.com/b/a/208012.htm?nl=1

No other minority would be treated like this in America today without a serious backlash against the bigots attempting it. This more than anything is what drives the efforts to deny that civil equality for gays is the least bit analogous to civil equality for blacks and Jews. Such an analogy, if accepted, would incline people to not just see gays as being “like” various other minorities, but also as being “like” other citizens of the community — and that’s even worse.

If you examine the rhetoric of the Christian Right closely, you will see a constant push to drive a wedge between gays and other Americans. So long as gays are “different” and “other,” it is easier to imagine that civil equality in various areas must not really apply to them. As soon as gays are seen as “like” other citizens, denying them full civil equality is revealed as the loathsome, bigoted, hateful, and unAmerican position that it really is.

On some level, the Christian Right probably realizes just how offensive their position is, but since they regard it as a “theological imperative,” they are locked into it no matter what. It is no wonder that they persistently try to reorient Americans’ views on the nature of liberty and equality. They define religious freedom as the freedom to discriminate while using government money to administer government programs, for example, thus masking the fact that by denying the full liberty and humanity of others they are abusing their positions.

Christian conservatives may not like gays, but their religious objections to homosexuality do not create a basis for avoiding associating with gays at work, in the military, or anywhere else gays may happen to be. Gay Americans should enjoy the full benefits of citizenship that are accorded to everyone else because they share the same humanity as everyone else — a humanity which is not defined according to any religious group’s narrow theological terms.

The question this raises in my mind is why would we allow one freedom to trample another.

 

[Green Gaia]

Why? Because they can get away with the discrimination and call it part of their religion.

BGLT Americans will not win the fight for equality alone.

 

[Radar]

Well I personally would not consider any sexuality or religion being in the same catagory as a minority group like race or ethnicity. I believe we all are equal and should have equal rights. I think homosexuals should be able to get married and raise children. I think that poligamist should be allowed to marry more than one woman and women should be allowed to marry more than one man. If that is what these adults are willing to subject themselves to then so be it. I don't agree with the taxation differences between those that are married and those that aren't but that is a different post. I don't think anyone should get preferential treatment or should be discriminated against because they are gay, white, black, female, male, heterosexual, christain, jew, muslim, or whatever. There are people in every group that think they get the short end of the stick. What we need to is stop putting people into groups and learn to respect one anther and their individual rights.

 

[Pah]

Why? Because they can get away with the discrimination and call it part of their religion.

I think that was true for slavery as well and still true today with Christian Identity.

BGLT Americans will not win the fight for equality alone.

Which is why, for the first time, I have joined an activist organization as a volunteer worker in Richmond. It's called Equality Virginia. (Maize knows about this - she put me on to it.) No more just talking about it on RF.

 

[retrorich]

Well I personally would not consider any sexuality or religion being in the same catagory as a minority group like race or ethnicity. I believe we all are equal and should have equal rights. I think homosexuals should be able to get married and raise children. I think that poligamist should be allowed to marry more than one woman and women should be allowed to marry more than one man. If that is what these adults are willing to subject themselves to then so be it. I don't agree with the taxation differences between those that are married and those that aren't but that is a different post. I don't think anyone should get preferential treatment or should be discriminated against because they are gay, white, black, female, male, heterosexual, christain, jew, muslim, or whatever. There are people in every group that think they get the short end of the stick. What we need to is stop putting people into groups and learn to respect one anther and their individual rights.

Amen to all of that! Excellent post. Frubals to you.

 

[WillieHutch]

Amen to all of that! Excellent post. Frubals to you.

cosigned!!!

thank you for posting that. equal rights and justice.

 

[michel]

I think that was true for slavery as well and still true today with Christian Identity.

Which is why, for the first time, I have joined an activist organization as a volunteer worker in Richmond. It's called Equality Virginia. (Maize knows about this - she put me on to it.) No more just talking about it on RF.

Good for you Pah; wish I could join you.

I'm afraid I can't lay claim to volunteering physically - my arms aren't long enough to reach from over here , but I have joined Human Rights, and will sign any petition that comes along. If anyone wants to petition, you can do so on this link.

It is a sad reflection that there seems to be no need for such organizations here (in England) - I guess we're so backward, we have no problems with GLBT; why, they are even alowed to become vicars in Christian churches..........

 

[Pah]

Good for you Pah; wish I could join you.

I'm afraid I can't lay claim to volunteering physically - my arms aren't long enough to reach from over here , but I have joined Human Rights, and will sign any petition that comes along. If anyone wants to petition, you can do so on this link.

It is a sad reflection that there seems to be no need for such organizations here (in England) - I guess we're so backward, we have no problems with GLBT; why, they are even alowed to become vicars in Christian churches..........

Hehehe - Not to play one upmanship (well maybe I am )We got a Bishop and you didn't/don't!

 

[Flappycat]

What I see is a change within the gay community itself. Homosexuals are increasingly choosing life-long partnerships over the unrestrained sexuality of old, and this raises the demand for state recognition. Also, the younger generation of homosexuals seems far more interested than their predecessors in pursuing a fairly normal and restrained lifestyle, a trend that is slowly eroding the ability of the religious right to foment panic and distrust toward the gay community. The less homosexuals behave as outsiders, the less they'll be treated as outsiders. The more trustworthy they show themselves to be, the more trust they'll receive and the less averse other groups will be to associating with them. It really doesn't hurt that we're no longer being treated as criminals (living in fear of being hauled off in a paddy wagon is not exactly conducive to a healthy outlook).

 

[Fluffy]

The less homosexuals behave as outsiders, the less they'll be treated as outsiders.

This implies that homosexuals were acting like outsiders in the first place and I do not consider this to be true. Discrimination against homosexuals likely came from 2 major sources:

1) Social, some might argue instinctual, concepts about dominance and submission. Males were supposed to be the dominant member of a partnership and this can obviously not happen in a gay relationship.
2) As a tool to further an us vs them mentality in order to fuel religious movements. Homosexuality was twisted so that it appeared as though only pagans were homosexuals. It could then be used as an excuse to force people to convert to one's own religion. After awhile, the ulterior motives were lost and morals were formed around homosexuality moving it into the arena of sin.

homosexuals seems far more interested than their predecessors in pursuing a fairly normal and restrained lifestyle, a trend that is slowly eroding the ability of the religious right to foment panic and distrust toward the gay community.

Great so now the religious right can just spread panic and mistrust against those who choose to lead an unsual or unrestrained lifestyle? This is not a solution, merely a get out clause that is going in our favour. We mustn't forget, once we have achieved our equality, that discrimination will continue and it won't stop being our problem just because it isn't aimed at us.

 

[michel]

2) As a tool to further an us vs them mentality in order to fuel religious movements. Homosexuality was twisted so that it appeared as though only pagans were homosexuals. It could then be used as an excuse to force people to convert to one's own religion. After awhile, the ulterior motives were lost and morals were formed around homosexuality moving it into the arena of sin.

Are you sure about that ? - look around you at England's gay vicars........

 

[Fluffy]

Are you sure about that ? - look around you at England's gay vicars........

Ah no I was listing what I viewed as the original sources of anti-homosexual feeling. In other words I think that religion played a big part in making people dislike it, but not because, originally, they viewed it as a sin but merely to distance themselves from other religions and get people to convert.

The current move away looks like, and has been argued by some, as the flip side of the same coin. However, I feel that their is much more moral motivation here and people are genuinly doing what they feel is right rather than altering their religion in the face of opposition that might eventually destroy it.

 

[Flappycat]

The thing is, Fluffy, a positive change actually does seem to be occuring within the the gay community. The old idea of "gay culture" is beginning to fade. Like it or not, the oppression that homosexuals endured in the past did not have a positive effect on their lifestyle or outlook, and the community is still slowly recovering. The sodomy laws were not good to us, and the hate was not good to us. The worst is over, I think. I am predicting a snowball effect, and there is nothing the opposition can do to stop it as long as we and our supporters remain active and vigilant.

 

[michel]

Ah no I was listing what I viewed as the original sources of anti-homosexual feeling. In other words I think that religion played a big part in making people dislike it, but not because, originally, they viewed it as a sin but merely to distance themselves from other religions and get people to convert.

The current move away looks like, and has been argued by some, as the flip side of the same coin. However, I feel that their is much more moral motivation here and people are genuinly doing what they feel is right rather than altering their religion in the face of opposition that might eventually destroy it.

I think, and hope, you are wrong. If you aren't, what this says about religion is sick. I would personaly have thought that the original source of anti-homosexual feelings stemmed more from a sense of 'fear' from others, who could not understand it - my father was like that.

I can only say I pray that you are wrong.........