Great to see you here.
I guess the implications if there is a God or Not, is if there is any purpose why we exist at all!
Regards Tony
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The implications of God's existence or lack thereof
- Thread starter Trailblazer
- Start date
Great to see you here.
I guess the implications if there is a God or Not, is if there is any purpose why we exist at all!
Regards Tony
Atheism is disbelief or lack of belief in the existence of God or gods. Anything else is personal belief an not related to atheism.
You used the word "many" in the "theist" sentence. Regarding atheist you wrote "Atheists believe the big bang just happened for no reason"
Derek500
Wish I could change this to AUD
Yip. That person was economical with the truth.
No reason other than entropy.
Are you talking about a psychological need, or something else?
So it is a matter of establishing parameters for ethical behavior?
Personally, I think reliance on accountability to authority is just not a very good source for those. True ethical behavior can't exist without active commitment of rational analysis at each situation.
Of course, there are a lot of nonbelievers who hold themselves accountable without a God.
I wonder if accountable is the proper word here. Perhaps "responsible" would be a better fit.
Personally I see naught but a perfectly Created Order, so we can know and love our One God.
I see this life as a womb of Spiritual development.
Stay well and happy, Regards Tony
The great god entropy?
I'm a little perplexed here, because this reads a bit contradictory with respect to how I understand religions. Theism in of itself - that is, acceptance of some particular god-concept - says and does very little in of itself. It's the framework of religion that provides its substance. One cannot even begin to discuss the implications of a particular god-concept without having a surrounding theology telling stories about the nature of those gods, and those narratives about the nature of the gods come out of religions. Thus, I'm confused by your angle here. Could you perhaps clarify your thoughts here? Can't guarantee I'll understand, but I can try.
The nature of the Abrahamic god-concept makes it rather difficult to parse together with day-to-day living. Or at least that's my general impression of it as an outsider. For me, there's not a disconnect between the gods, the material world, and happiness like there seems to be in Abrahamic religions. I don't know how I would navigate such a disconnect myself if that were part of my tradition. The question you ask later - "which is more important, God or the material world" doesn't even come up for me since they are the same thing for me.
At any rate, it sounds like you have had quite the journey beginning to develop a meaningful relationship with your god. That does take a lot of work - like any relationship, really - regardless of the deity you're working with. I'm not sure I could offer much of worth when it comes to developing your relationship with your god. There are doubtless others here who can aid in this. But to get back to this bit for a moment:
IMO, "existence" is a very shallow way of looking at things. I don't intend that as an insult, it's just to me existence of all things is a given and the question is what do I do with that. From there, your god(s) matter as much as you allow them to matter in your life. It's your story of life's meaningfulness, and you get to write that narrative. Well, many pass off that narrative responsibility to someone else and follow stories of a prescribed tradition or philosophy. That's okay too. Still, I think it's good to answer the "why does it matter" question for ourselves at least some of the time. And then maybe ask "why did I respond that way, and who taught me that way of thinking about it?"
Doesn't make sense in the universe, only the micro fraction if it that believes in a god but enjoy it anyway
But is is Universal and not confined to this Universe. God has many worlds and many other creatures and many given the capacity to know and Love God.
Mans mind has limited creation.
Regards Tony
That is opinion without evidence. I.e. faith
That sounds like a lot. I do not do half of that but then I have very little time because I have lots of material world responsibilities and I spend the rest of my time on forums. Also, I am an introvert and do not enjoy socializing in person so I do not get out to activities, not that I have any time anyway.
The Baha'i practices can be very brief and well suited to the modern well and busy lifes.
How long to do Baha'i practices take?
Short obligatory prayer - one minute
Reciting a verse from the sacred writings morning and evening - one minute
Reciting the greatest name 95 times - two minutes.
That's less than five minutes each day. If you are looking to build a relationship with God, there's your starting point.
Have you ever enjoyed the company of others?
Thanks. Great to be here and see some fellow Baha'is.
I think there are about 10 Baha'is currently posting on RF. I don't really think of my self as seperate from anyoen else here. What other sites have you been on?
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
I do not object but I do not agree. The reason I do not agree is because I believe that God is omnipotent, so God has complete control over all things in the universe. Humans cause things to happen by their free will actions but all human actions depend upon the assistance of God because we cannot do anything unaided.
Also, God’s will can override our human free will, so whatever happens only happens only because God allows it to happen. God is thus like a gatekeeper, allowing our decisions to unfold into actions that take place or not. If that action is not allowed through the gate we have to think again, make another decision, and do something else.
Of course, all of this is going on behind the scenes. We cannot ever know what God is doing so there is no point even thinking about it. All we can do is make the best choices at any point in time all the while knowing we are not the ones who have the final say regarding the outcome.
But just because God is omnipotent does not mean God is always going to override our free will decisions, even if they are bad decisions. If God did that we would just be puppets on a string, programmed robots. We would never learn anything from the choices we make and the actions that followed and there would be no purpose for our existence.
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
The horse has already bolted from the barn because we were created and now we exist. In a sense you are correct about the gas engines and drilling for oil because we were created for a reason, to know and worship God.
I do not know exactly what you meant by that, but it is not about US gaining something, it is about fulfilling the purpose of our existence; but since my gas engine has not gotten me very far down the road I am just espousing principles I believe in, I have a long way to go before I experience all the fulfillment that brings.
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
However, rational analysis does not guarantee ethical behavior. One needs an ethical standards to live by, some kind of guidelines. Otherwise, people can make up their own morality and anything goes.
~~ Yes, responsible is a better word since atheists have nobody to be accountable to except themselves and their loved ones.
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
Thanks. Yes, I know that one can find the spiritual within the material world. I just do not have much interest in anything material. The unfortunate fact is that I acquired a lot of material things before I embarked upon this spiritual journey, and it is not that easy to divest myself of them now. So I just try to work around them as best I can. Houses are a lot more difficult to get rid of than what is in them. It is possible but then one has to look at alternatives for the money so invested.
My primary spiritual tool is conversing on forums. I learn so much about God and religion and about people. I grow spiritually by interacting with all kinds of people and I hone my character by learning to get along amiably with others who believe and disbelieve differently than me.
I also love animals and I see God reflected in them. I do not have much time for anything else, given the material world constraints I live under. Music, movies and reading have all gone by the wayside within the last five years.
I really haven’t had any experiences of God, except through reading the scriptures of my religion and thinking about what God is, and listening to Christian music on the radio wherein I sometimes feel the power of God through the songs.
Skwim
Veteran Member
And I'm asking why we should worship god.
Hold on a sec. You said:
"Again, God does not need our worship for His sake, it is for our sake that God wants us to worship Him."
"For our sake" means for our benefit; fulfilling some need we have. We gain some benefit by worshiping him .So I'm asking, what is this benefit-need?
However, now you say---contradicting yourself---that it's not for some benefit to us that we worship god, but "it is about fulfilling the purpose of our existence." which, not benefiting us, must benefit god---who else? The purpose of our existence on earth is to benefit god, which would contradict your previous" God does not need our worship for His sake."
So, if our purpose on earth is not to benefit either god or ourselves, what is it?
.
dfnj
Well-Known Member
God exists and I will prove it to you. God is just a word. What the word God means is how we use it. God exists in our mind-space. No one denies the existence of the word God. God represents all that is, all that will be, all that could ever be imagined, and all that could ever possibly be realized.
It does matter to believe in God because God provides us a sacred meaning to our being here.
Some people prefer not to use the word God or experience the benefits for having any sacred meanings in their lives. For many people, reality is just random patterns of energy swirling around according to the laws of physics with no pattern having any more meaning than any other. I say to them that they are right that it is meaningless but it is also meaningless that it is meaningless. Therefore, since it doesn't matter from their point of view, we can choose meaningful over meaningless and thereby enjoy the benefits of living a life having sacred meaning. It doesn't have to be proven or be a decision based on reason or evidence. Choosing to believe in God is an irrational choice based on no reason and no evidence that is consciously made choice as an article of faith.
To put it simply the purpose of religion is to provide us a sacred meaning to our lives. To answer the question why does it matter if we believe in God you have to answer the question what is the purpose of God's existence? Then you can answer the question what is the purpose of our existence? Since there will not be any evidence supporting our answers our answers will be articles of faith. But whatever answers we come up with they should be the best possible answers that provide us the greatest amount of divine meaning in our lives.
Maybe someone could come up with better answers but here are mine. God's purpose for existing is to realize God's omnipotence. Our purpose in existing is to be a finite component of God realizing His infinite omnipotent experience in reality.
So if we are here to help God realize His omnipotence what behaviors in our lives are most important to God? Again, our answer to this question will not be based on evidence but will be a chosen article of faith. So we might as well choose the best answer to the question. I think morality matters to God. And God experiences what it means to have a finite experience by sharing our experiences from our perspective. So experiences we have that give us a sense of enthusiasm and a desire to participate in God's creation are the experiences that are the most important to God.
I believe in our modern society any discussion of religion must include implications of our latest and deepest understandings of nature. So another aspect of God realizing His omnipotence has to do with the deterministic nature of our Universe. For God to realize His omnipotence every possible configuration and pattern of reality must be realized. We could argue over the mechanisms of physics involved but it really doesn't matter. I think our space-time dimension of the Universe repeats over an infinite number of times until every possible pattern of energy is realized. In one space-time dimension vanilla is your favorite ice cream. In another it is chocolate. Each of us exists an infinite number of times until every possible choice we could ever possibly make gets played out to the nth degree so God can complete the realization of His omnipotence.
I believe we exist so our omnipotent God can experience the thrill of having limitations by sharing our experiences of joy and sorrow. And what makes us enthusiastic makes God enthusiastic. So the very best thing we can do to have reverence for God is by culturing our enthusiasm for participating in God's creation for ourselves and for other people. And we are against God when we make other people suffer or lose enthusiasm. The way to have the best possible relationship to God is to consciously and purposely work on cultivating enthusiasm for yourself and for other people in participating in God's creation.
Again, there is no evidence to support the right answers to your questions. The answers to your questions are not decisions based on reason. The answers to your questions are choices that become articles of faith. So to answer the question God or the material world we should come up with the best possible answer. I would say the answer is both are equally important. Everything we experience interacting with the material world must be thought of as being divine is the best possible answer. We are fulfilling God's purpose by participating in God's creation. When we create a fine piece of art it is sacred. Some activities in the material world like cleaning toilets that are not so pleasing. However, there is no job or no activity you do in your life that when doing it you can do it in a way that gives you the most amount of pride in your work. Having personal pride in our work gives us enthusiasm. Whatever it is we do interacting with the material world if it gives us enthusiasm then God is pleased and our lives have divine meaning.