The interpretation of Bahai faith regarding "son of Hasan Al-askari" is irrational.

[Link]

All that thou hast heard regarding Muḥammad the son of Ḥasan—may the souls of all that are immersed in the oceans of the spirit be offered up for His sake—is true beyond the shadow of a doubt, and we all verily bear allegiance unto Him. But the imáms of the Faith have fixed His abode in the city of Jábulqá, which they have depicted in strange and marvellous signs. To interpret this city according to the literal meaning of the tradition would indeed prove impossible, nor can such a city ever be found. Wert thou to search the uttermost corners of the earth, nay probe its length and breadth for as long as God’s eternity hath lasted and His sovereignty will endure, thou wouldst never find a city such as they have described, for the entirety of the earth could neither contain nor encompass it. If thou wouldst lead Me unto this city, I could assuredly lead thee unto this holy Being, Whom the people have conceived according to what they possess and not to that which pertaineth unto Him! Since this is not in thy power, thou hast no recourse but to interpret symbolically the accounts and traditions that have been reported from these luminous souls. And, as such an interpretation is needed for the traditions pertaining to the aforementioned city, so too is it required for this holy Being. When thou hast understood this interpretation, thou shalt no longer stand in need of “transformation” or aught else.
Know then that, inasmuch as all the Prophets are but one and the same soul, spirit, name, and attribute, thou must likewise see them all as bearing the name Muḥammad and as being the son of Ḥasan, as having appeared from the Jábulqá of God’s power and from the Jábulṣá of His mercy. For by Jábulqá is meant none other than the treasure-houses of eternity in the all-highest heaven and the cities of the unseen in the supernal realm. We bear witness that Muḥammad, the son of Ḥasan, was indeed in Jábulqá and appeared therefrom. Likewise, He Whom God shall make manifest abideth in that city until such time as God will have established Him upon the seat of His sovereignty. We, verily, acknowledge this truth and bear allegiance unto each and every one of them. We have chosen here to be brief in our elucidation of the meanings of Jábulqá, but if thou be of them that truly believe, thou shalt indeed comprehend all the true meanings of the mysteries enshrined within these Tablets.
But as to Him Who appeared in the year sixty, He standeth in need of neither transformation nor interpretation, for His name was Muḥammad, and He was a descendent of the Imáms of the Faith. Thus it can be truly said of Him that He was the son of Ḥasan, as is undoubtedly clear and evident unto thine eminence. Nay, He it is Who fashioned that name and created it for Himself, were ye to observe with the eye of God.

Gems of Divine Mysteries | Bahá’í Reference Library

 

[Link]

So all Prophets are Mohammad and son of Hassan type interpretation. He used that interpretation in a mystic way to say that the Bab is son of Hassan Al-akari (so acknowledges the hadiths saying it but interprets in this light).

 

[InvestigateTruth]

On page 157:

Talking about Meraaj:

(God says) Would you like to see them? Yes My Lord (Mohammad replies), (Mohammad continues to say )I raised my head and saw that I was in midst of the lights of Ali, Fatima, Hassan, Hussain, Ali son of Hussain, Mohammad son of Ali, Jaffar son of Mohammad, Musa son of Jaffar, Ali son of Musa, Mohammad son of Ali, Ali son of Mohammad, Hassan son of Ali, and Mohammad son of Hassan was in their middle, as if he was a bright star, I asked "O Lord who are these", he replied "They are the leaders, and this is the Qaim, who will allow the allowed and forbid the forbidden, and by him I will take vengeance on my enemies, and he is the relaxation of my friends, and he is who will heal the hearts of your followers from from the oppressors, the deniers, and disbelievers.


My argument: Even these type hadiths it's clear that "son of" is the same meaning as "son of" before mentioned for the other Imams (a), and can't be metaphoric.

The "Light" that is mentioned in these Hadithes in fact denotes Spiritual Reality, rather than literal relationships.

Like Isma'il Son of Sadiq. Why, he was not chosen as the Imam after Sadiq, if what matters is being literally his son?


Now consider this verse:

At length she brought the (babe) to her people, carrying him (in her arms). They said: "O Mary! truly an amazing thing hast thou brought! "O sister of Aaron! Thy father was not a man of evil, nor thy mother a woman unchaste!" [Qur'an 19:27-28]

Explain how you can tell ?Mary was sister of Aaron?

You have no choice except saying this is a Spiritual Sisterhood.
There has been Christians who think, this is an error in the Quran. They didn't realize God speaks spiritually.

 

[Link]

Explain how you can tell ?Mary was sister of Aaron?

There is hadith from Rasool (s) explaining that people would name people according to past Prophets in regards to this verse. Mariam the first was literal sister of Haroun. This Mariam named after her, they were saying sister of Haroun rather than Musa, because Mariam in Jewish tradition (the first one) and Haroun vied with Musa about authority. So they are saying you are bad and named after a bad person.

The truth is neither Mariam (a) nor Haroun (a) vied against Musa (a) like the Torah has us to believe today, and Allah (swt) put it here to make us mindful that Mariam (a) is named after the first Mariam (a) who is also holy.

 

[Link]

Like Isma'il Son of Sadiq. Why, he was not chosen as the Imam after Sadiq, if what matters is being literally his son?

Both matter. The spiritual closeness they have and blood kinship. How do you interpret verse 3:34?

 

[InvestigateTruth]

All that thou hast heard regarding Muḥammad the son of Ḥasan—may the souls of all that are immersed in the oceans of the spirit be offered up for His sake—is true beyond the shadow of a doubt, and we all verily bear allegiance unto Him. But the imáms of the Faith have fixed His abode in the city of Jábulqá, which they have depicted in strange and marvellous signs. To interpret this city according to the literal meaning of the tradition would indeed prove impossible, nor can such a city ever be found. Wert thou to search the uttermost corners of the earth, nay probe its length and breadth for as long as God’s eternity hath lasted and His sovereignty will endure, thou wouldst never find a city such as they have described, for the entirety of the earth could neither contain nor encompass it. If thou wouldst lead Me unto this city, I could assuredly lead thee unto this holy Being, Whom the people have conceived according to what they possess and not to that which pertaineth unto Him! Since this is not in thy power, thou hast no recourse but to interpret symbolically the accounts and traditions that have been reported from these luminous souls. And, as such an interpretation is needed for the traditions pertaining to the aforementioned city, so too is it required for this holy Being. When thou hast understood this interpretation, thou shalt no longer stand in need of “transformation” or aught else.
Know then that, inasmuch as all the Prophets are but one and the same soul, spirit, name, and attribute, thou must likewise see them all as bearing the name Muḥammad and as being the son of Ḥasan, as having appeared from the Jábulqá of God’s power and from the Jábulṣá of His mercy. For by Jábulqá is meant none other than the treasure-houses of eternity in the all-highest heaven and the cities of the unseen in the supernal realm. We bear witness that Muḥammad, the son of Ḥasan, was indeed in Jábulqá and appeared therefrom. Likewise, He Whom God shall make manifest abideth in that city until such time as God will have established Him upon the seat of His sovereignty. We, verily, acknowledge this truth and bear allegiance unto each and every one of them. We have chosen here to be brief in our elucidation of the meanings of Jábulqá, but if thou be of them that truly believe, thou shalt indeed comprehend all the true meanings of the mysteries enshrined within these Tablets.
But as to Him Who appeared in the year sixty, He standeth in need of neither transformation nor interpretation, for His name was Muḥammad, and He was a descendent of the Imáms of the Faith. Thus it can be truly said of Him that He was the son of Ḥasan, as is undoubtedly clear and evident unto thine eminence. Nay, He it is Who fashioned that name and created it for Himself, were ye to observe with the eye of God.

Gems of Divine Mysteries | Bahá’í Reference Library

Thanks for quoting this.

The part of this quote, I suggest to reflect on, is, the part bolded:

"All that thou hast heard regarding Muḥammad the son of Ḥasan—may the souls of all that are immersed in the oceans of the spirit be offered up for His sake—is true beyond the shadow of a doubt, and we all verily bear allegiance unto Him. But the imáms of the Faith have fixed His abode in the city of Jábulqá, which they have depicted in strange and marvellous signs. "


What or where is city of Jabulqa?

I did some searth on that. There are quite many Hadithes about it, from Muhammad, Ali, Hassan and Sadiq.

But I quote a couple of them here.

وعن أبي عبداللّه عليه السلام في أصحاب القائم علي «يَغزُوا بهم الإمام ... ما بين جابَرْسا إلى جابَلْقا ؛ وهما مدينتان واحدة بالمَشرق ، واُخرى بالمَغرب» : 27 / 43 . رواه عن بصائر الدرجات وفيه أيضاً كذلك ، وفي القاموس : «جابَلَص» ـ بفتح الباء واللام أو سكونها ـ : بَلَدٌ بالمغرِب ليس وَراءه إنسيّ ، وجابَلَقُ : بلدٌ بالمَشرِق

Here is the translation:

"And from Abu Abdullah (Imam Jafar al-Sadiq), peace be upon him, regarding the companions of the Qa'im:
'He will campaign with them from Jabarsa to Jabulqa, which are two cities, one in the east and the other in the west.' This is narrated in Basa'ir al-Darajat, and likewise in Al-Qamus: 'Jabalsa' – with a fatḥah on the ب and ل, or their سكون: 'A town in the west where there are no humans, and Jabalqā is a town in the east."

Baha'u'llah says, if you search all earth, you will not be able to find a city called Jabulqa, thus, you have no choice except interpret it spiritually.

As I understand, the City of Jabulqa, represents a world of Pre-existence.
It represents the Power of God. When God wants to manifest a Prophet, He first creates His spiritual reality in the Pre-existing Spritual world. Then, when He wants to manifest Him in this world, He assigns a body to Him. He is born into this world.

Consider Jesus. He said, "I came down from Heaven", yet, He was born from Mary. Why then He said, He had come down from Heaven?

In brief, as I understand, the Spiritual Reality of the 12th Imam, as Son of Hassan was created in the Spiritual Realm by God. His abode, Symbolically was called, city of Jabulqa. But, God, would assign His physical body, at the End Time, just before His Rise.

In this way, He is the Son of Hassan, because God had created Him as such, and on the other hand, His physical body was born later, from a Mother and Father, whose lineage go back to Imam Hussein.

And this is what Shia Sources say:

التبشير بخروج القائم ـ عجّل الله فرجه ـ آخر الزمان وانّه من ولد الحسين ، وتكرّر ذكر مدينتي جابلقا وجابرسا الخارجتين عن حدود الأرض اللّتين ستنصران الإمام المهدي عليه‌السلام


The translation of the text is:

"It heralds the emergence of the Qa'im (may Allah hasten his reappearance) at the end of times, stating that he is from the progeny of Imam Hussein. It repeatedly mentions the cities of Jabulqa and Jabarsa, which will emerge beyond the borders of the earth to support Imam Mahdi (peace be upon him)."

The Words of God and His chosen ones are not simple, as Baha'u'llah reminds of a Tradition from Sadiq:

"As they have literally interpreted the Word of God, and the sayings and traditions of the Letters of Unity, and expounded them according to their own deficient understanding, they have therefore deprived themselves and all their people of the bountiful showers of the grace and mercies of God. And yet they bear witness to this well-known tradition: "Verily Our Word is abstruse, bewilderingly abstruse." In another instance, it is said: "Our Cause is sorely trying, highly perplexing; none can bear it except a favorite of heaven, or an inspired Prophet, or he whose faith God hath tested."

 

[InvestigateTruth]

@Link

What I explained is the Baha'i view. Here is farther explanation from Shoghi Effendi:

"The Prophets, unlike us, are pre-existent. The Soul of Christ existed in the spiritual world before His birth in this world. We cannot imagine what that world is like, so words are inadequate to picture His state of being."
Shoghi Effendi, Lights of Guidance, p. 504


Therefore, in Baha'i view, the same applies to the Bab, as Son of Hassan, the 12th Imam. He had existed in the Spiritual world, and then born into our world, before His Rise at the End Time.

So, Baha'i belief is consistent with Shia Hadithes, as well as How previously Jesus existed in Spiritual Realm before He was born into our world.
As regards to the Shia sect understanding, I don't know how it can be true. It contradicts many Hadithes, and also how previously God did things, as an example, Jesus.

 

[Link]

On page 22 of the following book: أربعون حديثا معتبرا في النص على الأئمة الاثني عشر بأسمائهم

There is six chains, and then on page 24 it says:

"And he will create from the loin of Hussain a son who He named him Ali lowly towards God humble, then from his loin will emerge his son who is named Mohammad..."

The hadith goes on to describe the Imams one by one, then:

"...then he emerge from his loin his son and he named him Hassan a believer in God a guide towards God, and then will emerge from his loin, the word of truth, the truthful tongue, the bringer out of truth, God's proof on his creation, he has prolonged hiddenness, God will manifest through him Islam and it's people and he will annul disbelief and it's people."

Again, the context of the hadith is clear. This one even more so by the emphasis that will emerge from the loin wording.

What do you think of this hadith?

 

[InvestigateTruth]

What do you think of this hadith?

What do you think about this Hadith:


ولقد قال النبي : لما عرج بي إلى السماء نظرت إلى ساق العرش فإذ مكتوب عليه « لا إله إلا الله محمد رسول الله أيدته بعلي ونصرته بعلي » ورأيت اثني عشر نورا فقلت : يا رب أنوار من هذه؟ فنوديت : يا محمد هذه أنوار الائمة من ذريتك ، قلت : يا رسول الله أفلا تسميهم لي؟ قال : نعم أنت الامام والخليفة بعدي ، تقضي ديني وتنجز عداتي ، و بعدك ابناك الحسن والحسين ، وبعد الحسين ابنه علي زين العابدين ، وبعد علي ابنه محمد يدعى بالباقر ، وبعد محمد ابنه جعفر يدعى بالصادق ، وبعد جعفر ابنه موسى يدعى بالكاظموبعد موسى ابنه علي يدعى بالرضا ، وبعد علي ابنه محمد يدعى بالزكي ، وبعد محمد ابنه علي يدعى بالنقي ، وبعده ابنه الحسن يدعى بالامين ، والقائم من ولد الحسين سميي وأشبه الناس بي ، يملاها قسطا وعدلا كما ملئت جورا وظلما.


Notice, it goes through the chains of the Imams, one by one. It introduces each one as Son of the previous Imam, but when it reaches to the Qaim, it does not say, "son of Hassan", rather it says, He is from the lineage of Hussein. Also, it says, the Qaim is the most similar to Muhammad.
Why?

The Prophet (peace be upon him) said: "When I was taken up to the heavens, I looked at the Throne's leg and saw written on it, 'There is no god but Allah, Muhammad is the Messenger of Allah, I have supported him with Ali and assisted him with Ali.' I saw twelve lights and asked, 'O Lord, whose lights are these?' I was called, 'O Muhammad, these are the lights of the Imams from your descendants.' I asked, 'O Messenger of Allah, won't you name them for me?' He said, 'Yes, you are the Imam and my successor after me; you will fulfill my debts and promises. After you, your two sons, Hasan and Husayn. After Husayn, his son Ali Zayn al-Abidin. After Ali, his son Muhammad, called al-Baqir. After Muhammad, his son Ja'far, called al-Sadiq. After Ja'far, his son Musa, called al-Kadhim. After Musa, his son Ali, called al-Ridha. After Ali, his son Muhammad, called al-Zaki. After Muhammad, his son Ali, called al-Naqi. After him, his son Hasan, called al-Amin. The Qaim (the one who will rise) from the descendants of Husayn, bearing my name and the most similar to me, will fill the earth with justice and equity as it was filled with tyranny and oppression.'"



Here's another Hadith


قال سلمان الفارسي : أتيت أميرالمؤمنين خاليا فقلت : يا أمير المؤمنين متى القائم من ولدك؟ فتنفس الصعداء وقال : لا يظهر القائم حتى يكون امور الصبيان ، ويضيع حقوق الرحمان ، ويتغنى بالقرآن فإذا قتلت ملوك بني العباس اولي العمى والالتباس ، أصحاب الرمي عن الاقواس بوجوه كالتراس ، وخربت البصرة ، هناك يقوم القائم من ولد الحسين

Salman al-Farsi said: "I came to the Commander of the Faithful (Amir al-Mu'minin) in private and asked, 'O Commander of the Faithful, when will the Qaim (the one who will rise) from your descendants appear?' He sighed deeply and said, 'The Qaim will not appear until the affairs of children are corrupted, the rights of the Merciful (Allah) are neglected, and the Quran is sung (like songs). When the blind and confusing kings of Bani Abbas, who shoot arrows, with faces like shields, are killed, and Basra is destroyed, then the Qaim from the descendants of Husayn will rise.'"

Why, it does not say, the Qaim will be the Son of the Hassan? Why it keeps saying He is from the Lineage of Hussein?

 

[InvestigateTruth]

And another long hadith, Abu Jafar says:

فيبايعونه بين الركن والمقام ، ومعه عهد من رسول الله قد توارثته الابناء عن الآباء ، والقائم رجل من ولد الحسين يصلح الله له أمره في ليلة فمأ اشكل على الناس من ذلك يا جابر ، فلا يشكل عليهم ولادته من رسول الله ، ووراثته العلماء عالما بعد عالم ، فان أشكل هذا كله عليهم فان الصوت من السماء لا يشكل عليهم إذا نودي باسمه واسم أبيه وامه

"They will pledge allegiance to him between the Rukn and the Maqam, and he will have a covenant from the Messenger of Allah that has been inherited by the children from their forefathers. The Qaim will be a man from the descendants of Husayn, and Allah will set his affairs right in one night. If people find it difficult to accept this, they should not find it difficult to accept his birth from the Messenger of Allah and the inheritance of knowledge from one scholar to another. If all of this is difficult for them, then the voice from the sky will not be difficult for them when it calls out his name, and the names of his father and mother."

 

[InvestigateTruth]

وأسند الشيخ أحمد بن محمد الجوهري إلى جابر الأنصاري صلى الله عليه وآله: اختار الله من الأيام الجمعة، ومن الليالي القدر، ومن الشهور رمضان، واختارني وعليا واختار من علي الحسن والحسين، حجة الضالين، تاسعهم قائمهم أعلمهم وأحكمهم وأسند نحوه صاحب المقتضب وأبو جعفر ابن بابويه إلى الباقر عليه السلام

Sheikh Ahmad ibn Muhammad al-Jawhari reported from Jaber al-Ansari that the Prophet (peace be upon him) said: "Allah chose Friday from the days, the Night of Qadr from the nights, Ramadan from the months, and chose me and Ali. From Ali, He chose Hasan and Husayn, who are the guides for the misguided. The ninth of them will be their Mahdi, the most knowledgeable and the most just." This is also reported by the author of "Al-Muqtabis" and Abu Ja'far ibn Babawayh from al-Baqir (peace be upon him).

 

[Link]

Why, it does not say, the Qaim will be the Son of the Hassan? Why it keeps saying He is from the Lineage of Hussein?

You mean why didn't they name all twelve each time? Similar reasons as to why Rasool (s) talked about Twelve Successors from Quraysh. There is more general hadiths that are easier for people to transmit and who more people will accept (even if they don't acknowledge all twelve Imams) and then there is specific which will be less transmitted and passed in the community.

 

[InvestigateTruth]

You mean why didn't they name all twelve each time? Similar reasons as to why Rasool (s) talked about Twelve Successors from Quraysh. There is more general hadiths that are easier for people to transmit and who more people will accept (even if they don't acknowledge all twelve Imams) and then there is specific which will be less transmitted and passed in the community.

No, I mean, in the Hadithes I quoted in my two previous posts, they did not say, Qaim is Son of Imam Hassan. Why?

 

[Link]

No, I mean, in the Hadithes I quoted in my two previous posts, they did not say, Qaim is Son of Imam Hassan. Why?

Because of the first Imam Hassan, it would only make sense to say "son of Hassan" when naming all twelve, otherwise, it makes more sense to say from the offspring of Imam Hussain so people don't assume that it's from the offspring of Imam Hassan (the first Hassan).

 

[InvestigateTruth]

@Link

Anyways,

There are Hadithes that does say, Qaim is from Loin of Imam Hassan, or His son.
On the othet Hand, there are Hadithes that either says, Qaim is born at the End Time, or basically does not say who His father is.

So, how to reconcile these contradictions?

I was reading a few Hadithes, which I quote:

It is a long Hadith, so, i won't copy the whole.

ثم قال أبوجعفر : فنحن أول خلق الله ، وأول خلق عبدالله وسبحه ونحن سبب خلق الخلق وسبب تسبيحهم وعبادتهم من الملائكة والآدميين ، فبنا عرف الله وبنا وحد الله وبنا عبدالله ، وبنا أكرم الله من أكرم من جميع خلقه ، وبنا أثاب من أثاب ، وبنا عاقب من عقاب ، ثم تلا قوله تعالى « وإنا لنحن الصافون وإنا لنحن المسبحون» وقوله تعالى : « قل إن كان للرحمن ولد فأنا أول العابدين» فرسول الله أول من عبدالله تعالى ، وأول من أنكر أن يكون له ولد أو شريك ثم نحن بعد رسول الله.

ثم أودعنا بذلك النور صلب آدم عليه الصلاة والسلام ، فما زال ذلك النور ينتقل من الاصلاب والارحام من صلب إلى صلب ، ولا استقر في صلب إلا تبين عن الذي انتقل منه انتقاله ، وشرف الذي استقر فيه حتى صار في صلب عبدالمطلب فوقع بأم عبدالله فاطمة فافترق النور جزئين : جزء في عبدالله ، وجزء في أبي طالب ، فذلك قوله تعالى : وتقلبك في الساجدين يعنى في أصلاب النبيين وأرحام نسائهم فعلى هذا أجرانا الله تعالى في الاصلاب والارحام وولدنا الاباء والامهات من لدن آدم


Then God placed that light in the loins of Adam (peace be upon him). That light continued to move from loins to wombs, from loin to loin, and did not settle in any loin except that the one from whom it transferred became distinguished and honored until it reached the loins of Abdul Muttalib. Then it was placed in the mother of Abdullah, Fatimah, and the light split into two parts: one part in Abdullah and one part in Abu Talib. This is the meaning of the verse: "And your movement among those who prostrate" (referring to the loins of the prophets and the wombs of their mothers). Thus, God carried us through loins and wombs and created us from fathers and mothers from the time of Adam.

There are several similar Hadithes. Here is another one:

سمعت رسول الله 9 وهو يقول : خلقت أنا وعلي بن أبي طالب من نور واحد ، نسبح الله يمنة العرش قبل أن خلق آدم بألفي عام ، فلما أن خلق الله آدم جعل ذلك النور في صلبه ، ولقد سكن الجنة ونحن في صلبه ، ولقدهم بالخطيئة ونحن في صلبه ، ولقد ركب نوح السفينة ونحن في صلبه ، ولقد قذف إبراهيم 7 في النار ونحن في صلبه ، فلم يزل ينقلنا الله عزوجل من أصلاب طاهرة إلى أرحام طاهرة حتى انتهى بنا إلى عبد المطلب ، فقسمنا بنصفين ، فجعلني في صلب عبدالله ، وجعل عليا في صلب أبي طالب ، وجعل في النبوة والبركة ، وجعل في علي الفصاحة والفروسية ، وشق لنا اسمين من أسمائه ، فذو العرش محمود وأنا محمد ، والله الاعلى وهذا علي

I heard the Messenger of God (peace be upon him) say: "I and Ali ibn Abi Talib were created from one light. We glorified God on the right side of the Throne two thousand years before He created Adam. When God created Adam, He placed that light in his loins. He resided in Paradise while we were in his loins, he intended to commit sin while we were in his loins, Noah embarked on the ark while we were in his loins, and Abraham was thrown into the fire while we were in his loins. God continued to transfer us from pure loins to pure wombs until He brought us to Abdul Muttalib. Then He divided us into two halves: He placed me in the loins of Abdullah and placed Ali in the loins of Abu Talib. He endowed me with prophethood and blessings and endowed Ali with eloquence and bravery. He derived for us two names from His own names: the Owner of the Throne is praised (Mahmoud), and I am Muhammad, and the Most High (Al-Ala) is God, and this is Ali."



According to these Hadithes, there was a Light, that God placed it in the Loin of Adam, then, that Light was transferred to other wombs and other Loins, till ended up in the Father of Muhammad and Ali.

It is obvious that, this Loin, and this womb, and the light are not literal or physical Loins, Wombs and Light.

I think, those other Hadithes that says, the Qaim is from the Loin of Imam Askari, is also of the same type of Loin. It is not literal. Whatever that may mean.
Or did they mean, Ali and Muhammad were literally inside Loin of Adam, and with sexual intercourse they were eventually transferred?

 

[InvestigateTruth]

Because of the first Imam Hassan, it would only make sense to say "son of Hassan" when naming all twelve, otherwise, it makes more sense to say from the offspring of Imam Hussain so people don't assume that it's from the offspring of Imam Hassan (the first Hassan).

But if you look at my first Hadith, it goes one Imam after another Imam. I think you didn't read it.

 

[Link]

But if you look at my first Hadith, it goes one Imam after another Imam. I think you didn't read it.

Okay, it's an anomaly. Most hadiths when naming all twelve, say he is the son of Hassan Al-Askari.

 

[Link]

@Link

Anyways,

There are Hadithes that does say, Qaim is from Loin of Imam Hassan, or His son.
On the othet Hand, there are Hadithes that either says, Qaim is born at the End Time, or basically does not say who His father is.

So, how to reconcile these contradictions?

I was reading a few Hadithes, which I quote:

It is a long Hadith, so, i won't copy the whole.

ثم قال أبوجعفر : فنحن أول خلق الله ، وأول خلق عبدالله وسبحه ونحن سبب خلق الخلق وسبب تسبيحهم وعبادتهم من الملائكة والآدميين ، فبنا عرف الله وبنا وحد الله وبنا عبدالله ، وبنا أكرم الله من أكرم من جميع خلقه ، وبنا أثاب من أثاب ، وبنا عاقب من عقاب ، ثم تلا قوله تعالى « وإنا لنحن الصافون وإنا لنحن المسبحون» وقوله تعالى : « قل إن كان للرحمن ولد فأنا أول العابدين» فرسول الله أول من عبدالله تعالى ، وأول من أنكر أن يكون له ولد أو شريك ثم نحن بعد رسول الله.

ثم أودعنا بذلك النور صلب آدم عليه الصلاة والسلام ، فما زال ذلك النور ينتقل من الاصلاب والارحام من صلب إلى صلب ، ولا استقر في صلب إلا تبين عن الذي انتقل منه انتقاله ، وشرف الذي استقر فيه حتى صار في صلب عبدالمطلب فوقع بأم عبدالله فاطمة فافترق النور جزئين : جزء في عبدالله ، وجزء في أبي طالب ، فذلك قوله تعالى : وتقلبك في الساجدين يعنى في أصلاب النبيين وأرحام نسائهم فعلى هذا أجرانا الله تعالى في الاصلاب والارحام وولدنا الاباء والامهات من لدن آدم


Then God placed that light in the loins of Adam (peace be upon him). That light continued to move from loins to wombs, from loin to loin, and did not settle in any loin except that the one from whom it transferred became distinguished and honored until it reached the loins of Abdul Muttalib. Then it was placed in the mother of Abdullah, Fatimah, and the light split into two parts: one part in Abdullah and one part in Abu Talib. This is the meaning of the verse: "And your movement among those who prostrate" (referring to the loins of the prophets and the wombs of their mothers). Thus, God carried us through loins and wombs and created us from fathers and mothers from the time of Adam.

There are several similar Hadithes. Here is another one:

سمعت رسول الله 9 وهو يقول : خلقت أنا وعلي بن أبي طالب من نور واحد ، نسبح الله يمنة العرش قبل أن خلق آدم بألفي عام ، فلما أن خلق الله آدم جعل ذلك النور في صلبه ، ولقد سكن الجنة ونحن في صلبه ، ولقدهم بالخطيئة ونحن في صلبه ، ولقد ركب نوح السفينة ونحن في صلبه ، ولقد قذف إبراهيم 7 في النار ونحن في صلبه ، فلم يزل ينقلنا الله عزوجل من أصلاب طاهرة إلى أرحام طاهرة حتى انتهى بنا إلى عبد المطلب ، فقسمنا بنصفين ، فجعلني في صلب عبدالله ، وجعل عليا في صلب أبي طالب ، وجعل في النبوة والبركة ، وجعل في علي الفصاحة والفروسية ، وشق لنا اسمين من أسمائه ، فذو العرش محمود وأنا محمد ، والله الاعلى وهذا علي

I heard the Messenger of God (peace be upon him) say: "I and Ali ibn Abi Talib were created from one light. We glorified God on the right side of the Throne two thousand years before He created Adam. When God created Adam, He placed that light in his loins. He resided in Paradise while we were in his loins, he intended to commit sin while we were in his loins, Noah embarked on the ark while we were in his loins, and Abraham was thrown into the fire while we were in his loins. God continued to transfer us from pure loins to pure wombs until He brought us to Abdul Muttalib. Then He divided us into two halves: He placed me in the loins of Abdullah and placed Ali in the loins of Abu Talib. He endowed me with prophethood and blessings and endowed Ali with eloquence and bravery. He derived for us two names from His own names: the Owner of the Throne is praised (Mahmoud), and I am Muhammad, and the Most High (Al-Ala) is God, and this is Ali."



According to these Hadithes, there was a Light, that God placed it in the Loin of Adam, then, that Light was transferred to other wombs and other Loins, till ended up in the Father of Muhammad and Ali.

It is obvious that, this Loin, and this womb, and the light are not literal or physical Loins, Wombs and Light.

I think, those other Hadithes that says, the Qaim is from the Loin of Imam Askari, is also of the same type of Loin. It is not literal. Whatever that may mean.
Or did they mean, Ali and Muhammad were literally inside Loin of Adam, and with sexual intercourse they were eventually transferred?

This is saying their ancestry is pure and of people who are each light of God. I think the loins is talking about literal ancestry. There are hadiths that Adam (a) was chosen due to light of Mohammad (s), Ali (a), Fatima (a), Hassan (a) and Hussain (a) being in him.

So this shows the whole lineage was of people who are on the light of that and inherited that light and stayed true to it.

 

[InvestigateTruth]

This is saying their ancestry is pure and of people who are each light of God.

How they are pure?

genetically?

I think the loins is talking about literal ancestry.

what about the wombs?

There are hadiths that Adam (a) was chosen due to light of Mohammad (s), Ali (a), Fatima (a), Hassan (a) and Hussain (a) being in him.

So this shows the whole lineage was of people who are on the light of that and inherited that light and stayed true to it.

What does "light" mean?

 

[InvestigateTruth]

Okay, it's an anomaly. Most hadiths when naming all twelve, say he is the son of Hassan Al-Askari.

Is this a scholarly answer?

You need to solve the puzzles, instead of rejection of Hadithes that you don't like.
You conveniently ignored all those Hadithes that says Qaim comes from Jabulqa. You also ignored the verse of Quran, that says, Qaim is in Heaven.

Even if they meant literally, Son of Hassan, still, God can delay His Birth:

"يقدم الله ما يشاء ويؤخر ما يشاء"

"Allah advances what He wills and delays what He wills"

Thus, Allah delayed His Birth till Akhirul Zamaan.

All of these words and Hadithes are on Baha'i side.