• Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:
    • Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
    • Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
    • Access to private conversations with other members.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!

The Irony of Creationist belief

sayak83

Veteran Member
Staff member
Premium Member
It’s no lie….

Do you realize the problem that a punctuated, ie., burst or spurt, “rate of change” presents for species? “Punctuated” observable mutations in offspring would result in parents abandoning or killing their young, which we often find in the animal kingdom when offspring are different from their parents.

In other related news:

This is what happens when one talks about astronomy from reading astrology magazines.
The rate of mutation between parent to offspring is not changing at all. The rate of fixation (ie spread) of a beneficial mutation in a population is speeding up due to high environment driven selective pressures.
You know...read actual evolution theory once in a while. My God!
 

Audie

Veteran Member
Shame you didn't keep on reading Gould. He has several essays in the 90s that outline clear transitional fossil sequences point-by-point.
Only reading what parts one wants to see
and avoiding the rest is the refined essence of
INTELLECTUAL DISHONESTY.

Which is once again on display as the essential
ingredient of, the very essence of yec belief.
 

Hockeycowboy

Witness for Jehovah
Premium Member
Only reading what parts one wants to see
and avoiding the rest is the refined essence of
INTELLECTUAL DISHONESTY.

Which is once again on display as the essential
ingredient of, the very essence of yec belief.
I’ve told you many times, I’m not a YEC. (Biblical context does not support such a view.)
For you to persist in repeating that misinformation / lie about me, is dishonest.
 

ChristineM

"Be strong", I whispered to my coffee.
Premium Member
It’s no lie….

Do you realize the problem that a punctuated, ie., burst or spurt, “rate of change” presents for species? “Punctuated” observable mutations in offspring would result in parents abandoning or killing their young, which we often find in the animal kingdom when offspring are different from their parents.

In other related news:


I'm not sure you have the idea of puncuated equilibrium.
A burst happens over many generations so mutations are not enough per generation to cause abandoning an offspring.

Besides, it's a model based on incomplete data so until more data is available it's just an idea
 

wellwisher

Well-Known Member
I am not against the spirit of evolution; evolution is based on change and natural selection. This is not new. Humans have instinctively applied the same basic schema for breeding domestic plants and animals since ancient times.

For example, breeding sheep was based on choosing the best specimens, for human needs, and then breeding with them. This was humans mimicking nature ,way before they knew the science of evolution. Animal sacrifices were part of this dynamics. In these sacrifices you were to sacrifice the best of your flocks to the gods.

Conceptually, this sacrificed of the best was where natural selection, would trump human selection. Humans tend to pick based on shallow ego centric surfaces; looks or money making, while nature picks based on more global fitness. Even today, in terms of modern human selection of dogs, mongrels of natural selection; call of the wild, tend to be healthier, than human selections based on narrow breed surface standards.

Back then one would have to give-up the petty lamb; vanity, so better breed health was maintained. This is not new with God part of the equation. It is like old song from your parent' time suddenly appearing again, with the children thinking this is so new and awesome. Children think climate change is new; old song that is new to this generation.

My problem with the modern theory of evolution, has to do with the statistical approach to life and evolution, that is based on fossil exceptions becoming the rule. Let me give an example of how this math approach is irrational. There are 8.1 billion people on earth. During the COVID pandemic over 7 million people died of the disease. That amounts to less than 1% of the world's population dying, yet everyone was at risk? Casino science, fixates of the exceptions, which amounted to 1%, to make that global. rules that even forced the 99%, who had no future of death, to pretend to also die, since the bogeyman was everywhere. How does this make sense? That one fossil changes everything!

It is like saying, if I throw the ball at the tree, everyone in a 360 degree radius needs to run. The sad thing is everyone is so conditioned that most will run. If you do not follow, the mob will drag you by your hair, saying this is for your own good. They may also abuse you. Your brains have been fried. The reason this brain fry occurs is the math is allowed to lead, with that math based on black box assumptions, which makes it impossible to find a theory based on the 99%, who will survive and do not have to run. Everyone not in the path of the tree is safe but this is hard to prove in to the blind in a black box. This brain washing is so deeply engrained. This same math is behind the theory of evolution; herd panic that is not fully rational. If you make good arguments that contradict, this is just religious nonsense.

Consider the human dynamics of one of the mega jackpot lotteries, where near a $billion is up for grabs. After it is over, one or two people out of a billion tickets sold, wins. This is the rule. Yet, hundreds of millions of people will play all praying to win. The final repeatable data says one thing, but the herd moves in a way that appears to say the opposite. The exception becomes the rule, at an emotional level; they are the exception. Instead of the fear of the bogeyman, this is desire for the princess, since she might choose anyone of us; lady luck. We need to show up and be our best. People begin to fantasize to be in the proper frame of future mind. This subjective Lady Luck theory from the black box statistical theory of the exceptions being the rule, is a trigger for gambling addiction. One size fits all; risk or desire, leads to addiction. This is why statistical gaming for the exception to become the rule, is used by gamers, marketeers, focus groups and politicians. Mush brains are vulnerable.

The body is in a dynamic equilibrium. It does not take much to upset the natural balance. Our material configurations are more or less fixed; cellular material with entropic potential. This, in turn, is reflected in a balanced dynamic entropic increase response, which is all the activity on these fixed structures.

The irrational nature of making rules based on the exceptions, causes a repression in the brain, with the brain playing a major role in the energy/entropy economy of the body. One is required or conned into repression of common sense 20/20 hindsight, to define all by one. This dams the neural energy. Since the entropy balance is now off, due to the lowering of a natural neural outlet, alternate equilibrium dynamics will need to happen elsewhere, that can induce an entropic increased offset in the structural matrix. The negative physical side effects help create a self fulfilling prophesy; the stress makes you more at risk for secondary problems.

This is easier to see in terms of the lottery since it avoids the death that can create denial. The offset of the lottery, exception is the rule, is the induced fantasy outlets, that are in direct proportion to the prize that is at stake. The bigger the prize the more irrational you need to be to make a rule from one data point; you, being the exception. The risk of climate change bogeyman, which never makes accurate predictions; rules, that we can test with 20/20 hindsight, appears to affect the brain and even health due to theory of the exception applies to all. Manmade is the minor variables, that is the exception to the natural, yet we are taught this is the lead variable. This can be backed up with casino math.
 

Audie

Veteran Member
I’ve told you many times, I’m not a YEC. (Biblical context does not support such a view.)
For you to persist in repeating that misinformation / lie about me, is dishonest.
I didn't name you. So it's you with the false
accusation. Calling me a liar. Tsk.

Amusing though that you saw yourself
in the dishonest behaviour and admitted it.

The bible supports just about anything a person
chooses to find. Selective reading is the key,
the very technique i referred to as intellectual
dushonesty.

If you think it's honest, noble, and godly, do tell
us how that works.

One such as you finds that excess " flood"
water was wafted to Venus.(Where it shines to
this day as a warning beacon against incoming
rogue angels). Your whoppers are equal or greater.

As for yec or unyec call yourself any name you please.

Its the same intellectually dishonest behaviour by any name.
 
Last edited:

Audie

Veteran Member
Then you should have posted them.

Because some, staying within family taxa, I might agree with.
So you admit to having quit reading
before you actually had any idea what he
was talking about.

But then you only read mined quotes- right?

' Staying within family" is the most basic sort of
biology. You needed someone to post that
for you?
(You can just say "family".
Nobody says " family taxa".
Unless maybe trying to sound
like they know sciencey words)
 
Last edited:

metis

aged ecumenical anthropologist
My problem with the modern theory of evolution, has to do with the statistical approach to life and evolution, that is based on fossil exceptions becoming the rule. Let me give an example of how this math approach is irrational. There are 8.1 billion people on earth. During the COVID pandemic over 7 million people died of the disease. That amounts to less than 1% of the world's population dying, yet everyone was at risk? Casino science, fixates of the exceptions, which amounted to 1%, to make that global. rules that even forced the 99%, who had no future of death, to pretend to also die, since the bogeyman was everywhere. How does this make sense? That one fossil changes everything!
Well, I guess you can also blame your buddy Donald J. Trump as he proposed "Operation Warp Speed" to quickly produce vaccines. Sorry if that doesn't fit into your many stereotypes.
 

wellwisher

Well-Known Member
Well, I guess you can also blame your buddy Donald J. Trump as he proposed "Operation Warp Speed" to quickly produce vaccines. Sorry if that doesn't fit into your many stereotypes.
I have been saying, that a statistical approach to reality, views reality, based on the exceptions, becoming the rule. In evolution, the fossils are the exception, relative to all living things that ever were. This default minor data of just using the fossils, is massaged by statistical math, which is the same math used in Casinos and gambling, focus groups, marketeers, and politics. The organic centric approach of biology makes it impossible to use the preponderance of all living data, that ever was, since all zillion examples changed over time. The water stayed the same. This is the key to a preponderance approach to life; simplified.

Winning is the exception in any casino, like fossils are the exception relative to all living things, ever. This exception to the rule, becoming the rule is what people are taught to believe, via mainstream living. We all may win the lottery. This is why I have such a hard time pointing it out, even to rational people. They assume this approach is fine, since this how the system works. They do not see any conceptual problems if all the leaders use it. Trump had to work in that system, since politics is addicted to it. If you depart, you can never win. Trump did what the science system asked and did it in record time. He by-passing the black box oracles of the bureaucracy, that sees the exception of disaster as the rule; foot drag. Trump saw the lessor of two evils and took the heat for them; Trump was the sacrifice to the bogeyman gods.

In the case of COVID, say we could make a set of rational laws for disease, similar to a disease version of the laws of physics. With this system we could have eliminates the worries of 90% of the people of the world, ahead of time. These 90% will not die, as the data now shows. A good system based on the majority being the rule would see this. This would eliminate the side effects due to adding worry, waste and stress to 7 billion extra people. We could then use the casino approach on the last 10%. This would lead to even better results, with more resources to fight a narrower battle front. This would be better, than the fantasy assumption of 100% at risk, under the casino math umbrella, when we only expect 1% fatality. What we have now seems backwoods witch doctoring. It is embarrassing to call that modern science. This always bothered me and needed an update.

However, there is a strong resistance to talking about any mostly rational approach to life, that does not make an exception the rule the lead actor; all must fear the bogeyman. The first approach could be rational, while the second is very emotional; fear. The black box opens the imagination to the irrational emotions; fear of Bogeyman or desire for Lady Luck.

The problem of healing the system is getting past the emotional baggage, connected to so much conditioning, via the whims of the gods; faith based on a black box. Separation of church and state should apply, since the actions of scaring all, do not rationally reflect the final data, but rather reflect the faith in a black box whim of the gods approach, that is not rational, but emotional and based on faith.

The Atheist rational logic, that sets religion apart from science, is the claims of religion, such as gods, cannot be proven by science. Therefore, these things; gods, are not connected to tangible reality, even if they are connected to the human imagination. This line between science and religion, can be described, in a more general sense, as fact versus fiction. God is assumed to be fiction, since the claim lacks hard proof but it is still possible in the imagination. People believe since there is an internal reinforcement.

Both fact and fiction can be conscious, but only fact can be proven in outward material reality. A fictional fact, such as a claim in a science fiction book, may be factual, relative to the plot of the story. Captain Kirk went to Star Fleet Academy. This is a plot fact, but it is not factual relative to being proven within tangible reality; the claim of teleportation. Teleportation can still occur in the mind and imagination, but not yet within the lab, even if reasonable and based on quantum physics, it is still emotional/intuitive fiction. We have never documented life elsewhere in the universe. This may be reasonable like the plot of a novel, but it is still fiction at this point in time. This is useful line in the sand.

I am trying to create a more general way to contrast religion and science, since many modern religions use the term gods as their loophole. Science assumes religions are more like fiction, in the sense of maybe a logical plot consistency, based on its own assumptions. But like fiction these are not easy to prove in the lab, such as the need to panic 100% of the world to yield 1%. That is a fact, but 99% fiction will b used again unless we straighten his out; novel religion. The Bible has at least 1% historical facts. Statistical based science may need to lose tax payer funding, and have to be treated as tax exempt like a church. This sounds scary, but the healing will change the world for better.

One topic in the news is the Transgender issue. The data says that about 98%; more or less, of humans remain true to their biological sexes; inner sense. Yet there is a Liberal push to make the term of the majority of the data; biological sex, taboo. You cannot mention the 98%, majority data, but you have to frame reality, based on less than 2%, which itself needs to broken down into its exceptions.

This is the type of mind set created by the foundation of all black box religions. If we take way the black box, this fiction does not hold up to science without the trick tool. It needs the black box and the voice of the odd makers. Therefore it is a religion, which is what makes it very compelling, like an instinct. We do have freedom of religion and one is free to worship, but the state cannot impose this religion, like it is trying to do. it cannot be funded or forced via DEI. Government cannot establish any novel religions based, on modern black box philosophy.

Fiction is often partly true, such as historical fiction. These are the most subtle black box religions. I like historical fiction in that you get to experience an accurate picture of an historical settings; War and Peace in 1812 Russia. The main characters and stories lines are fictional accounts of timeless human struggles, that are common to all human history. We can still relate. These archetypical struggles are woven into the factual details of the invasion of Napoleon. This style of religion can get very convoluted.

Science is supposed to be about just the facts, and should not allow the producers of science fiction, to weave fringe religion, into what appears to be accurate science background facts, if it appeals to emotions. There should be no tax payer funding for any Liberal churches. They can still exist in the free market, with other clever artistic offerings; science and historical fiction.

Reparations is a blend of science and historical fiction. Many of the slavey stories are solid data. The fiction that is woven is the knockoff from Bible of the idea of original sin, all the future is to blame for the actions of a few. That alone, make it a religion. The science fiction comes in based on skin color somehow able to transfer the guilt of original sin over time. How do pigment genes carry neural information? This may be possible in a fictional book, but where is the science data, beyond playing dice and cards in a black box?
 

metis

aged ecumenical anthropologist
I have been saying, that a statistical approach to reality, views reality, based on the exceptions, becoming the rule. In evolution, the fossils are the exception, relative to all living things that ever were. This default minor data of just using the fossils, is massaged by statistical math, which is the same math used in Casinos and gambling, focus groups, marketeers, and politics. The organic centric approach of biology makes it impossible to use the preponderance of all living data, that ever was, since all zillion examples changed over time. The water stayed the same. This is the key to a preponderance approach to life; simplified.

Winning is the exception in any casino, like fossils are the exception relative to all living things, ever. This exception to the rule, becoming the rule is what people are taught to believe, via mainstream living. We all may win the lottery. This is why I have such a hard time pointing it out, even to rational people. They assume this approach is fine, since this how the system works. They do not see any conceptual problems if all the leaders use it. Trump had to work in that system, since politics is addicted to it. If you depart, you can never win. Trump did what the science system asked and did it in record time. He by-passing the black box oracles of the bureaucracy, that sees the exception of disaster as the rule; foot drag. Trump saw the lessor of two evils and took the heat for them; Trump was the sacrifice to the bogeyman gods.

In the case of COVID, say we could make a set of rational laws for disease, similar to a disease version of the laws of physics. With this system we could have eliminates the worries of 90% of the people of the world, ahead of time. These 90% will not die, as the data now shows. A good system based on the majority being the rule would see this. This would eliminate the side effects due to adding worry, waste and stress to 7 billion extra people. We could then use the casino approach on the last 10%. This would lead to even better results, with more resources to fight a narrower battle front. This would be better, than the fantasy assumption of 100% at risk, under the casino math umbrella, when we only expect 1% fatality. What we have now seems backwoods witch doctoring. It is embarrassing to call that modern science. This always bothered me and needed an update.

However, there is a strong resistance to talking about any mostly rational approach to life, that does not make an exception the rule the lead actor; all must fear the bogeyman. The first approach could be rational, while the second is very emotional; fear. The black box opens the imagination to the irrational emotions; fear of Bogeyman or desire for Lady Luck.

The problem of healing the system is getting past the emotional baggage, connected to so much conditioning, via the whims of the gods; faith based on a black box. Separation of church and state should apply, since the actions of scaring all, do not rationally reflect the final data, but rather reflect the faith in a black box whim of the gods approach, that is not rational, but emotional and based on faith.

The Atheist rational logic, that sets religion apart from science, is the claims of religion, such as gods, cannot be proven by science. Therefore, these things; gods, are not connected to tangible reality, even if they are connected to the human imagination. This line between science and religion, can be described, in a more general sense, as fact versus fiction. God is assumed to be fiction, since the claim lacks hard proof but it is still possible in the imagination. People believe since there is an internal reinforcement.

Both fact and fiction can be conscious, but only fact can be proven in outward material reality. A fictional fact, such as a claim in a science fiction book, may be factual, relative to the plot of the story. Captain Kirk went to Star Fleet Academy. This is a plot fact, but it is not factual relative to being proven within tangible reality; the claim of teleportation. Teleportation can still occur in the mind and imagination, but not yet within the lab, even if reasonable and based on quantum physics, it is still emotional/intuitive fiction. We have never documented life elsewhere in the universe. This may be reasonable like the plot of a novel, but it is still fiction at this point in time. This is useful line in the sand.

I am trying to create a more general way to contrast religion and science, since many modern religions use the term gods as their loophole. Science assumes religions are more like fiction, in the sense of maybe a logical plot consistency, based on its own assumptions. But like fiction these are not easy to prove in the lab, such as the need to panic 100% of the world to yield 1%. That is a fact, but 99% fiction will b used again unless we straighten his out; novel religion. The Bible has at least 1% historical facts. Statistical based science may need to lose tax payer funding, and have to be treated as tax exempt like a church. This sounds scary, but the healing will change the world for better.

One topic in the news is the Transgender issue. The data says that about 98%; more or less, of humans remain true to their biological sexes; inner sense. Yet there is a Liberal push to make the term of the majority of the data; biological sex, taboo. You cannot mention the 98%, majority data, but you have to frame reality, based on less than 2%, which itself needs to broken down into its exceptions.

This is the type of mind set created by the foundation of all black box religions. If we take way the black box, this fiction does not hold up to science without the trick tool. It needs the black box and the voice of the odd makers. Therefore it is a religion, which is what makes it very compelling, like an instinct. We do have freedom of religion and one is free to worship, but the state cannot impose this religion, like it is trying to do. it cannot be funded or forced via DEI. Government cannot establish any novel religions based, on modern black box philosophy.

Fiction is often partly true, such as historical fiction. These are the most subtle black box religions. I like historical fiction in that you get to experience an accurate picture of an historical settings; War and Peace in 1812 Russia. The main characters and stories lines are fictional accounts of timeless human struggles, that are common to all human history. We can still relate. These archetypical struggles are woven into the factual details of the invasion of Napoleon. This style of religion can get very convoluted.

Science is supposed to be about just the facts, and should not allow the producers of science fiction, to weave fringe religion, into what appears to be accurate science background facts, if it appeals to emotions. There should be no tax payer funding for any Liberal churches. They can still exist in the free market, with other clever artistic offerings; science and historical fiction.

Reparations is a blend of science and historical fiction. Many of the slavey stories are solid data. The fiction that is woven is the knockoff from Bible of the idea of original sin, all the future is to blame for the actions of a few. That alone, make it a religion. The science fiction comes in based on skin color somehow able to transfer the guilt of original sin over time. How do pigment genes carry neural information? This may be possible in a fictional book, but where is the science data, beyond playing dice and cards in a black box?
Maybe get to the point instead of just rambling on and on and... = "word salad".
 

Pogo

Well-Known Member
I have been saying, that a statistical approach to reality, views reality, based on the exceptions, becoming the rule. In evolution, the fossils are the exception, relative to all living things that ever were. This default minor data of just using the fossils, is massaged by statistical math, which is the same math used in Casinos and gambling, focus groups, marketeers, and politics. The organic centric approach of biology makes it impossible to use the preponderance of all living data, that ever was, since all zillion examples changed over time. The water stayed the same. This is the key to a preponderance approach to life; simplified.

Winning is the exception in any casino, like fossils are the exception relative to all living things, ever. This exception to the rule, becoming the rule is what people are taught to believe, via mainstream living. We all may win the lottery. This is why I have such a hard time pointing it out, even to rational people. They assume this approach is fine, since this how the system works. They do not see any conceptual problems if all the leaders use it. Trump had to work in that system, since politics is addicted to it. If you depart, you can never win. Trump did what the science system asked and did it in record time. He by-passing the black box oracles of the bureaucracy, that sees the exception of disaster as the rule; foot drag. Trump saw the lessor of two evils and took the heat for them; Trump was the sacrifice to the bogeyman gods.

In the case of COVID, say we could make a set of rational laws for disease, similar to a disease version of the laws of physics. With this system we could have eliminates the worries of 90% of the people of the world, ahead of time. These 90% will not die, as the data now shows. A good system based on the majority being the rule would see this. This would eliminate the side effects due to adding worry, waste and stress to 7 billion extra people. We could then use the casino approach on the last 10%. This would lead to even better results, with more resources to fight a narrower battle front. This would be better, than the fantasy assumption of 100% at risk, under the casino math umbrella, when we only expect 1% fatality. What we have now seems backwoods witch doctoring. It is embarrassing to call that modern science. This always bothered me and needed an update.

However, there is a strong resistance to talking about any mostly rational approach to life, that does not make an exception the rule the lead actor; all must fear the bogeyman. The first approach could be rational, while the second is very emotional; fear. The black box opens the imagination to the irrational emotions; fear of Bogeyman or desire for Lady Luck.

The problem of healing the system is getting past the emotional baggage, connected to so much conditioning, via the whims of the gods; faith based on a black box. Separation of church and state should apply, since the actions of scaring all, do not rationally reflect the final data, but rather reflect the faith in a black box whim of the gods approach, that is not rational, but emotional and based on faith.

The Atheist rational logic, that sets religion apart from science, is the claims of religion, such as gods, cannot be proven by science. Therefore, these things; gods, are not connected to tangible reality, even if they are connected to the human imagination. This line between science and religion, can be described, in a more general sense, as fact versus fiction. God is assumed to be fiction, since the claim lacks hard proof but it is still possible in the imagination. People believe since there is an internal reinforcement.

Both fact and fiction can be conscious, but only fact can be proven in outward material reality. A fictional fact, such as a claim in a science fiction book, may be factual, relative to the plot of the story. Captain Kirk went to Star Fleet Academy. This is a plot fact, but it is not factual relative to being proven within tangible reality; the claim of teleportation. Teleportation can still occur in the mind and imagination, but not yet within the lab, even if reasonable and based on quantum physics, it is still emotional/intuitive fiction. We have never documented life elsewhere in the universe. This may be reasonable like the plot of a novel, but it is still fiction at this point in time. This is useful line in the sand.

I am trying to create a more general way to contrast religion and science, since many modern religions use the term gods as their loophole. Science assumes religions are more like fiction, in the sense of maybe a logical plot consistency, based on its own assumptions. But like fiction these are not easy to prove in the lab, such as the need to panic 100% of the world to yield 1%. That is a fact, but 99% fiction will b used again unless we straighten his out; novel religion. The Bible has at least 1% historical facts. Statistical based science may need to lose tax payer funding, and have to be treated as tax exempt like a church. This sounds scary, but the healing will change the world for better.

One topic in the news is the Transgender issue. The data says that about 98%; more or less, of humans remain true to their biological sexes; inner sense. Yet there is a Liberal push to make the term of the majority of the data; biological sex, taboo. You cannot mention the 98%, majority data, but you have to frame reality, based on less than 2%, which itself needs to broken down into its exceptions.

This is the type of mind set created by the foundation of all black box religions. If we take way the black box, this fiction does not hold up to science without the trick tool. It needs the black box and the voice of the odd makers. Therefore it is a religion, which is what makes it very compelling, like an instinct. We do have freedom of religion and one is free to worship, but the state cannot impose this religion, like it is trying to do. it cannot be funded or forced via DEI. Government cannot establish any novel religions based, on modern black box philosophy.

Fiction is often partly true, such as historical fiction. These are the most subtle black box religions. I like historical fiction in that you get to experience an accurate picture of an historical settings; War and Peace in 1812 Russia. The main characters and stories lines are fictional accounts of timeless human struggles, that are common to all human history. We can still relate. These archetypical struggles are woven into the factual details of the invasion of Napoleon. This style of religion can get very convoluted.

Science is supposed to be about just the facts, and should not allow the producers of science fiction, to weave fringe religion, into what appears to be accurate science background facts, if it appeals to emotions. There should be no tax payer funding for any Liberal churches. They can still exist in the free market, with other clever artistic offerings; science and historical fiction.

Reparations is a blend of science and historical fiction. Many of the slavey stories are solid data. The fiction that is woven is the knockoff from Bible of the idea of original sin, all the future is to blame for the actions of a few. That alone, make it a religion. The science fiction comes in based on skin color somehow able to transfer the guilt of original sin over time. How do pigment genes carry neural information? This may be possible in a fictional book, but where is the science data, beyond playing dice and cards in a black box?
I get it, you are training LSD for AI .
Yet another reason not to cede too much to AI besides it being a box of rocks.
 

Subduction Zone

Veteran Member
I’ve told you many times, I’m not a YEC. (Biblical context does not support such a view.)
For you to persist in repeating that misinformation / lie about me, is dishonest.
If one believes the Flood myth that is a difference without a distinction. You still have to deny all of the sciences.
 

sayak83

Veteran Member
Staff member
Premium Member
Omg...

Gen 1:
16God made two great lights:
17God set these lights in the expanse of the sky to shine upon the earth, 18to preside over the day and the night, and to separate the light from the darkness
21So God created the great sea creatures and every living thing that moves, with which the waters teemed according to their kinds, and every bird of flight after its kind.
25God made the beasts of the earth according to their kinds, the livestock according to their kinds, and everything that crawls upon the earth according to its kind.
26Then God said, “Let Us make man in Our image,
This example of selective quoting piques my interest, and it is something creationists need to answer for.
Genesis 1 provides clear cut evidence of God commanding the natural world to create living things and this is defined as God creating living beings. Thus God commands the natural world, and the natural world does the work. This is a clear cut evidence for theistic evolution (where the laws of nature create and diversify life under God's command) and refutation of creationism (where God directly created species de-novo without natural world doing anything...poof.

NRSV:-
24 And God said, “Let the earth bring forth living creatures of every kind: cattle and creeping things and wild animals of the earth of every kind.” And it was so.
25 God made the wild animals of the earth of every kind and the cattle of every kind and everything that creeps upon the ground of every kind. And God saw that it was good.

20And God said, “Let the waters bring forth swarms of living creatures, and let birds fly above the earth across the dome of the sky.” 21 So God created the great sea monsters and every living creature that moves, of every kind, with which the waters swarm and every winged bird of every kind. And God saw that it was good. 22 God blessed them, saying, “Be fruitful and multiply and fill the waters in the seas, and let birds multiply on the earth.” 23 And there was evening and there was morning, the fifth day.

11 Then God said, “Let the earth put forth vegetation: plants yielding seed and fruit trees of every kind on earth that bear fruit with the seed in it.” And it was so. 12 The earth brought forth vegetation: plants yielding seed of every kind and trees of every kind bearing fruit with the seed in it. And God saw that it was good.


Also note that the development of diversification of living things is non-teleological. There is no predefined purpose to any living things or species and the only thing God says is that their existence and diversification is good. So here the purpose is creative aesthetic and nothing else. So once agains, per Genesis 1:- Emergence and diversification if living being happen through the action of the natural world under the command of God and it is non-teleological.

Hence Christians should have no problem with any of the evolutionary processes discovered so far by science.
 

Mock Turtle

Oh my, did I say that!
Premium Member
I would like to address another science casino on the Las Vegas Strip of Science, where the House always wins, by using the same math. This is called climate change and global warming. Like the weatherman, how many global warming and climate change predictions have failed? Why is there no accountability?

In contrast to rational science; if you could somehow do even one repeatable experiment, that could disprove Einstein's relativity, it would be open season for experimental change and allowance for all new theory. Yet with climate change, which uses casino math, bad model predictions do not change the direction of the ship, that cannot lose. Why is that still called science, and not a rigged game?

The main variable of the Earth's weather is water; oceans, atmosphere and subterranean. Water is also the foundation of life and integrates life by touching everything in life. Say we apply the second law to the earth; the entropy of the earth has to increase. Shouldn't the 2nd law account for climate change; earth complexity has to increase. The question is what is the main integrating variable?

The moderate temperature of the earth is due to the surface water, not CO2. If there was no surface water, the barren earth would be a very toasty 153 F. Now the average temperate of the earth; due to water, is about 59F. Why is the water not the main variable for the science casino that cannot lose? They're worried about 1.5C, while water moderates about 100F and can do more. The House that cannot lose estimates for warming all tend to be too high, because they fail to give water credit due. They do not have to, if the house has to win.

Say we had no water on the earth. The atmosphere would be based on the partial pressures of the current dominant gases like N2, O2 and also traces of other gases like CO2 and CH4, etc. Once we add water, we add a multitasking wild card. All the other gases stay, gases from 59F to 153F. Water, can become a gas, liquid or solid within the same range, while all other gases need to stay, gases; equator to poles. Water has three separate contributions to weather and climate, based on how each phase interacts with solar and ambient heat. Water is far more complex and not a one trick pony, like the trace gases that cannot lose; by default.

If we start with liquid water, and evaporate it, into water vapor; solar heating, there is an expansion of 1600 times. One meter3 of liquid water will become 1600m3 of water vapor. This expansion into a gas exerts a partial pressure, into the atmosphere of the permanent gases. This is how high pressure systems often form; evaporated water vapor adds pressure. While clouds, which are due to water vapor attracting via hydrogen bonding, can keep this higher pressure contained; equilibrium between free and contained water. The high pressure does not have to dissipate very fast, as would occur with all the other gases. This containment time delay has its own wild cards; compacts the rain fall, instead of just fog and mist.

Say this high pressure system started to get cooler, so water began to condense; rain cloud. We will get the opposite, or a 1600 times reduction in volume. This reduces the partial pressure in the local atmosphere and pulls a vacuum. We call this a low pressure system. The difference in pressure between low and high systems, can move air for breezes and wind between lingering pressure zones.

Without water, the high and low pressure systems of the rest of the permanent gases, would not be the same thing. They would be mostly due to temperature differences; cold and hot, with colder denser. Since they lack the hydrogen bonding of the wild card of water, that allows a wide range of cloud and weather containment effects, within low and high pressure systems, the pressure gradients would dissipate sooner. If we apply the second law; the base atmospheric gases are too simple to be the primary outlet for entropy increase. They will get maximized too easy and stop being a good outlet. Both water and permanent gas entropy occur together, but the water is the main zone of entropic climate change; due to the wide variety possible.

The house that cannot lose, permanent gas centric assumptions, are good for grade school children. It is easier to chew. But adults in science, should put their efforts into the water angle, since this is where all the entropic variety for climate change is expressed; 2nd law and water's many tools and expressions.

The above over view does not include subterranean and inner earth water, which has exotic properties for inner earth entropy increases. Water allows us to interface the inner earth, with the, sun and surface, to add extra secondary effects, that reflects more than just climate change; total earth change. I predicted water would be found in the core of the earth, based on my theory. I was proven correct, years later. The deep ocean and crust/mantle interface is a good place to begin to make full earth change connections; water is continuous.
Have you bashed this out with fellow experts? :oops:
 

Mock Turtle

Oh my, did I say that!
Premium Member
My problem with the modern theory of evolution, has to do with the statistical approach to life and evolution, that is based on fossil exceptions becoming the rule. Let me give an example of how this math approach is irrational. There are 8.1 billion people on earth. During the COVID pandemic over 7 million people died of the disease. That amounts to less than 1% of the world's population dying, yet everyone was at risk? Casino science, fixates of the exceptions, which amounted to 1%, to make that global. rules that even forced the 99%, who had no future of death, to pretend to also die, since the bogeyman was everywhere. How does this make sense? That one fossil changes everything!
Quibbling as to lockdown or the development of vaccines? Surely it was more about the health services, and other such, just not coping if so many became infected, and given that many could pass on the virus whilst not showing any symptoms - not obvious at first although a distinct possibility - it is hardly unusual for them to be cautious, especially when a vaccine was not immediately going to be available.
 

Eli G

Well-Known Member
The Bible is clear about the creation according to its kind of animals and plants:

Gen. 1:11 Then God said: “Let the earth cause grass to sprout, seed-bearing plants and fruit trees according to their kinds, yielding fruit along with seed on the earth.” And it was so. 12 And the earth began to produce grass, seed-bearing plants and trees yielding fruit along with seed, according to their kinds. Then God saw that it was good.
(...) 20 Then God said: “Let the waters swarm with living creatures, and let flying creatures fly above the earth across the expanse of the heavens.” 21 And God created the great sea creatures and all living creatures that move and swarm in the waters according to their kinds and every winged flying creature according to its kind. And God saw that it was good. 22 With that God blessed them, saying: “Be fruitful and become many and fill the waters of the sea, and let the flying creatures become many in the earth.” 23 And there was evening and there was morning, a fifth day. 24 Then God said: “Let the earth bring forth living creatures according to their kinds, domestic animals and creeping animals and wild animals of the earth according to their kinds.” And it was so. 25 And God went on to make the wild animals of the earth according to their kinds and the domestic animals according to their kinds and all the creeping animals of the ground according to their kinds. And God saw that it was good.

The expression "according to its/their kind/s" is very specific.

"This description allows for variation within a “kind,” but it implies that there are fixed barriers separating the different kinds. The Bible account of creation also leads us to expect that new types of creatures would appear in the fossil record suddenly and fully formed." (https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/1102010346 )

Did you notice how many times that simple Bible passage repeats that expression and why?
 

Pogo

Well-Known Member
The Bible is clear about the creation according to its kind of animals and plants:

Gen. 1:11 Then God said: “Let the earth cause grass to sprout, seed-bearing plants and fruit trees according to their kinds, yielding fruit along with seed on the earth.” And it was so. 12 And the earth began to produce grass, seed-bearing plants and trees yielding fruit along with seed, according to their kinds. Then God saw that it was good.
(...) 20 Then God said: “Let the waters swarm with living creatures, and let flying creatures fly above the earth across the expanse of the heavens.” 21 And God created the great sea creatures and all living creatures that move and swarm in the waters according to their kinds and every winged flying creature according to its kind. And God saw that it was good. 22 With that God blessed them, saying: “Be fruitful and become many and fill the waters of the sea, and let the flying creatures become many in the earth.” 23 And there was evening and there was morning, a fifth day. 24 Then God said: “Let the earth bring forth living creatures according to their kinds, domestic animals and creeping animals and wild animals of the earth according to their kinds.” And it was so. 25 And God went on to make the wild animals of the earth according to their kinds and the domestic animals according to their kinds and all the creeping animals of the ground according to their kinds. And God saw that it was good.

The expression "according to its/their kind/s" is very specific.

"This description allows for variation within a “kind,” but it implies that there are fixed barriers separating the different kinds. The Bible account of creation also leads us to expect that new types of creatures would appear in the fossil record suddenly and fully formed." (https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/1102010346 )

Did you notice how many times that simple Bible passage repeats that expression and why?
So, you got something right for once, though it is creationists that think evolution says otherwise and propose things like crocoducks.
You wouldn't make these mistakes if you actually learned something about evolution.
 
Top