The joys of heaven

[Unveiled Artist]

According to Christians, wife and wife chose the same eternal destiny. So, that should be no problem. Apart from all that annoying gnashing of teeth.

Ciao

- viole

But could one live for eternity without the other happily.

I noticed people are in a good mood when someone else's bad choice doesn't affect them. If two wives loved each other, that,I hope, shouldn't be the case. Maybe both should go to hell with each each other than one going to heaven without the other.

 

[A Vestigial Mote]

No, I don't think it is as much a "brain-wash" but an overcoming love.

My sister-in-law lost her toddler when a drunken cousin ran over the toddler. It was painful and many tears were shed... but the love of God simply heals the broken hearted.

Obviously, we are talking about something that no one on earth has really felt the full impact. We are talking about "possibility thinking" at this point.

Thanks for helping me clarify.

Ken

It still sounds to me like a situation that can be summarized as "I feel so good now that I just don't care about those other things that came before." And I don't feel that to be a healthy mind-set, nor even a healthy thing to desire. It seems like giving in to denial. What about learning? What about acceptance for the sake of gaining experience in accepting?

 

[Kenny]

It still sounds to me like a situation that can be summarized as "I feel so good now that I just don't care about those other things that came before." And I don't feel that to be a healthy mind-set, nor even a healthy thing to desire. It seems like giving in to denial. What about learning? What about acceptance for the sake of gaining experience in accepting?

I don't seem to see it that way. I think your last sentence is correct. You do learn from the experience.

Think of it this way, When you get a cut and it is healing, just the touch of the area hurts. Once the scar is formed, you can talk about it, touch it, even bump it and it doesn't hurt because it is healed.

Certainly ones experience through healing puts you in a position to help others who are going through the same thing but it is difficult to help another if you are still hurting. God's love heals the past so that not only can you move forward but you can pull others along the way.

 

[1213]

In what sense are you happy for those who get what they want?...
I would assume those who did not choose god followed their heart to a more healthier belief for them-in that sense, are you happy?

I am happy that they get what they want. they would not want to be with God eternally and righteously.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

I am happy that they get what they want. they would not want to be with God eternally and righteously.

The context sounds more like empathy not genuine happiness for their wellbeing.

Do you think they Are happy without being in righteousness? Can they be?

 

[InChrist]

How will you experience the joy of being in heaven knowing that your loved one has chosen a spiritual path apart from your own?

Will it bother you while you with god that you will never see your loved one?

Ideally, loved ones (say wife and wife) would want what's best for their spouse even if it means the other has chosen a path that differs from their mate. Once the couple accepts this fact, that doesn't mean both wives don't care for each other's wellbeing. It just means the former would be in heaven without her spouse.

How will you experience the joy of being in heaven knowing that your loved one has chosen a different spiritual path apart from your own?

Will you forget about your loved once once you're in god's love?

I don’t completely know the answer to that yet. I do know that God gives each person the opportunity over and over to choose to be in heaven with Him and live forever or reject the invitation. I also believe there will be complete joy being with God the Creator of life and the scriptures say He will wipe away every tear.

 

[InChrist]

Why would I want to go to heaven if the people that I love and consider to be kind and moral people are banned from going there? I wouldn't. Just like I wouldn't have any desire to get into an exclusive country club that told me my loved ones weren't acceptable enough to be allowed to join.

That is not the heaven of the Bible. In the biblical scriptures it states God desires all to be saved. It’s not a “country club” atmosphere. All are invited, but no one is forced to enter heaven. Many refuse, though.

 

[QuestioningMind]

That is not the heaven of the Bible. In the biblical scriptures it states God desires all to be saved. It’s not a “country club” atmosphere. All are invited, but no one is forced to enter heaven. Many refuse, though.

You speak with such authority. What kind of an atmosphere did heaven have last time you were there?

 

[1213]

...Do you think they Are happy without being in righteousness? Can they be?

I think so. If they would like righteousness, they would choose it already.

 

[InChrist]

You speak with such authority. What kind of an atmosphere did heaven have last time you were there?

Obviously, I haven’t been there, nor has anyone else still living in eat. I am only reiterating the authority by which the scriptures speak concerning the eternal state, which is in my view the only valid source anyone has on the subject.

 

[QuestioningMind]

Obviously, I haven’t been there, nor has anyone else still living in eat. I am only reiterating the authority by which the scriptures speak concerning the eternal state, which is in my view the only valid source anyone has on the subject.

Where in the scriptures does it state that heaven doesn't have a country club atmosphere?

 

[A Vestigial Mote]

Think of it this way, When you get a cut and it is healing, just the touch of the area hurts. Once the scar is formed, you can talk about it, touch it, even bump it and it doesn't hurt because it is healed.

But please consider that within this exact analogy you present, you'd instead be talking about a loved one who was burning in hell. So, you'd be speaking to another soul (presumably) and speaking about those "wounds" (those you had lost), and at one point in the conversation, would it not be completely correct and honest in that instance to admit that right now, that loved one was being tortured for all eternity? And how would that make you feel? And if you felt nothing because of God's love, then what do you think that really says about this love? That it is just "so powerful?" Or that it is just some kind of panacea or nepenthe? If, for example, it simply made you so happy that you didn't question God as to why the punishment had to be forever, then I truly believe that it is just some kind of "wonder-drug" given to you by God in order to get you to keep your mouth shut. Those types of questions are healthy to be asking, and if the answer that comes back isn't satisfactory, then to my mind it would be time to try and break out of Neverland. Again - at least for a healthy mind.

 

[Kenny]

Those types of questions are healthy to be asking, and if the answer that comes back isn't satisfactory, then to my mind it would be time to try and break out of Neverland. Again - at least for a healthy mind.

Yes, those are good questions. Perhaps a caveat, in the simplest of things even in the buying of a vacuum cleaner, one person would say "satisfactory" and another wouldn't be convinced. But, yes, those questions should be asked. I've asked those same questions.

But please consider that within this exact analogy you present, you'd instead be talking about a loved one who was burning in hell. So, you'd be speaking to another soul (presumably) and speaking about those "wounds" (those you had lost), and at one point in the conversation, would it not be completely correct and honest in that instance to admit that right now, that loved one was being tortured for all eternity? And how would that make you feel?

Many points on this as I thought it through:

1. As Christians still have different views, some say there is no hell, others say there is a purgatory so it is not eternal, others still say the soul will be vanquished in hell as well as some who say it is eternal, can we really know?
2. Too many times we concentrate on what might be when the message is "whatever it is, you don't have to go there"! Why not pick door #2?
3. God is merciful and just. People like to be the judge and it is God who is the judge. Since we know that His mercy is higher that the Heavens to the earth, shouldn't we be looking for the mercy? If there is a judgement, whatever it might be, as Christians we know it will be just.
4. Yes, obviously if it is your loved one, it would be painful. When your son/daughter is in a life-time prison sentence or a capital offense sentence, it hurts. But we don't want to look at it with a victim mentality either... it was the offense that put them there and not the judge.

And if you felt nothing because of God's love, then what do you think that really says about this love? That it is just "so powerful?" Or that it is just some kind of panacea or nepenthe?

Since we are dealing with hypotheticals and as I mentioned before... we have no idea what this love and its power has. So we can construct our own viewpoints on this. All I do know is the He will wipe our tears away and there will be no more crying or dying. So apparently it is pretty strong stuff.

 

[A Vestigial Mote]

As Christians still have different views, some say there is no hell, others say there is a purgatory so it is not eternal, others still say the soul will be vanquished in hell as well as some who say it is eternal, can we really know?

Thank you, sincerely, for admitting that you don't know. Now excuse me if I don't buy into anything you have to say on the subject outright.

Too many times we concentrate on what might be when the message is "whatever it is, you don't have to go there"! Why not pick door #2?

But, to my mind, YOU are the one concentrating on "what might be." And the choice is not so simple, because it requires adherence to and observance of a doctrine that someone else thought up as to how one should live their lives. It's more than just choosing between a blue or a black pen to sign your name. Picking "door #2" (which I am assuming you referred to as the route out of hell, i.e. "path to heaven"), means A LOT of things... and as you already stated above, it means a lot of different things to different people. So, what am I to choose? Your version? The version of your neighbor? No. The most expedient and honest thing to do is to reject it all, unless someone has some cogent, shareable evidence. That would be something. We all know you don't really have any that is anywhere near convincing enough though. Otherwise you'd have the entire world's ear, easily.

God is merciful and just. People like to be the judge and it is God who is the judge.

And if He doesn't exist? Check it out... just like your little spin on "Pascal's Wager" above - "What if you don't have to be judged?" Ha!

Since we know that His mercy is higher that the Heavens to the earth, shouldn't we be looking for the mercy?

Let me know when you find it, and then DEMONSTRATE it to me. Then maybe I will believe you.

If there is a judgement, whatever it might be, as Christians we know it will be just.

Only if you assume that whatever God chooses to do is automatically "just."

Yes, obviously if it is your loved one, it would be painful. When your son/daughter is in a life-time prison sentence or a capital offense sentence, it hurts. But we don't want to look at it with a victim mentality either... it was the offense that put them there and not the judge.

What about for an offense that has nothing to do with morality? Like too many parking tickets leading to a warrant and arrest. Is it just as easy to say that "the offense" put them in the situation and not the judge? What about those who tried to escape slavery and were punished? Did their "offense" of trying to escape put them into the punishment, rather than their captors (those doing the judging)? You need to think more deeply about things, Ken. You are extremely surface-y and want to talk about things in black and white terms to a fault.

 

[Kenny]

Thank you, sincerely, for admitting that you don't know. Now excuse me if I don't buy into anything you have to say on the subject outright.

Assuredly, you don't have to take anything I say. Never said you had to.

But, to my mind, YOU are the one concentrating on "what might be." And the choice is not so simple, because it requires adherence to and observance of a doctrine that someone else thought up as to how one should live their lives. It's more than just choosing between a blue or a black pen to sign your name. Picking "door #2" (which I am assuming you referred to as the route out of hell, i.e. "path to heaven"), means A LOT of things... and as you already stated above, it means a lot of different things to different people. So, what am I to choose? Your version? The version of your neighbor? No. The most expedient and honest thing to do is to reject it all, unless someone has some cogent, shareable evidence. That would be something. We all know you don't really have any that is anywhere near convincing enough though. Otherwise you'd have the entire world's ear, easily.

I was answering the OP. Why do you have a problem with me answering the OP in my viewpoint?

Some things Christians have a different viewpoint but that doesn't translate into that we have a different viewpoint on everything.

But it appears you have made your decision for which I am fine with. You sound like that in some form or fashion I am demanding that you think like I do.

And if He doesn't exist? Check it out... just like your little spin on "Pascal's Wager" above - "What if you don't have to be judged?" Ha!

Of course we are talking about Christian viewpoints here. Apparently, as a non-theistic viewpoint, you would subscribe to not being judged after death.

If you believe that, I'm fine with it... but why should you be contrary if I have a different world-to-come view?

Let me know when you find it, and then DEMONSTRATE it to me. Then maybe I will believe you.

I never said I was out to force you to believe. You have a free will which I respect as does God (in a Christian perspective).

Only if you assume that whatever God chooses to do is automatically "just."

Yes... that is my viewpoint.

What about for an offense that has nothing to do with morality? Like too many parking tickets leading to a warrant and arrest. Is it just as easy to say that "the offense" put them in the situation and not the judge? What about those who tried to escape slavery and were punished? Did their "offense" of trying to escape put them into the punishment, rather than their captors (those doing the judging)? You need to think more deeply about things, Ken. You are extremely surface-y and want to talk about things in black and white terms to a fault.

I'm not sure what your point is here. Can you clarify the reason your are taking this in a different direction or explain the context?

Have a better 2021 New Year than 2020.

Ken

 

[A Vestigial Mote]

I'm not sure what your point is here. Can you clarify the reason your are taking this in a different direction or explain the context?

You were the one stating that a criminal's offense is what put them into any uncomfortable situation they might find themselves in (like prison), and not the judge. You said this. I was merely providing examples of situations in which a "crime" being committed is not necessarily what we would consider a crime at all if we simply take a different perspective on it. Such that the "judge" in those situation is MOST CERTAINLY the one responsible for putting the "criminal" into the compromising situation. In other words, your little analogy doesn't always work... and yet you state it plainly and expect that it just stands on its own. It is a fairly simple concept, and the only thing these types of responses from me are geared to do is teach you that unless you have something easily and succinctly demonstrable, then you can't be "right" about a thing. As much as you might want to believe in it, you aren't "right."

 

[InChrist]

Where in the scriptures does it state that heaven doesn't have a country club atmosphere?

I think the scriptures refer to heaven more as paradise or the garden of Eden restored. A place of incredible beauty and variety of creation where there is no pain, tears, sin or suffering. That doesn’t sound like the country club places humans create.