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The JW's claim Jesus was not son of Adam.
- Thread starter LightofTruth
- Start date
firedragon
Veteran Member
Mate. I already told you I dont wish to get into a faith discussion here.
I apologise to have said "I agree" which I didnt think would lead to further faith discussions. So I shall respectfully withdraw.
Apologies.
LightofTruth
Well-Known Member
I suppose the genealogy of Jesus which traces his first father as Adam is wrong according to the JW here.
Jesus is son of man but not son of Adam? okie dokie
LightofTruth
Well-Known Member
Oh, BTW, there was another discussion board to kick me out when I showed them Jesus' genealogy. They didn't like the idea either that Jesus' first father was Adam. So they gave me the boot. They were another group, like the JW's who claimed the Bible to be true. i guess as long as it fits their ideas it's true. Otherwise it gets the boot.
firedragon
Veteran Member
Lol. Mate. Can you tell me what the Hebrew phrase for "Son of Man" is? Which one is Jesus calling himself?
LightofTruth
Well-Known Member
Are you laughing because Jesus' genealogy is wrong?
firedragon
Veteran Member
Can you tell me what the Hebrew phrase for "Son of Man" is? Which one is Jesus calling himself?
LightofTruth
Well-Known Member
When you tell me that Adam is not the first father of Jesus. And therefore Jesus' genealogy is wrong.
firedragon
Veteran Member
Whats the Hebrew phrase for "Son of Man" is? Which one is Jesus calling himself?
I am sure you understand the question. Both times you spoke of a genealogy which is an irrelevant answer. Which means either you dont understand a simple English sentence, or you are intentionally creating a caricature that is not relevant to me to create a strawman.
Whats the Hebrew phrase for "Son of Man" is? Which one is Jesus calling himself?
LightofTruth
Well-Known Member
Is Jesus a son of Abraham? of course he is.
Where did Abraham come from?
Did Abraham have a father?
LightofTruth
Well-Known Member
All I'm asking you is if Jesus was a man who came from the first man. That is the topic of the discussion.
firedragon
Veteran Member
So, since you are incapable of answering a question honestly mate, there is no way I am gonna discuss a toffee or a book with you.
Ciao.
Yes, Jesus is related to Adam according to genealogical records as found at Luke 3:38.
In Scripture, both Adam and Jesus had God as their Father.
Earthly Adam was created sinless, Heavenly pre-human Jesus was created sinless - Revelation 3:14 B.
God (the Father of pre-human heavenly Jesus) He sent Jesus to Earth for us from Heaven.
Thus, God transferred the heavenly sinless life of pre-human Jesus to Mary.
Jesus has human perfection (without inherited adamic sin) because God was his Father. (First in heaven, then transferred life to earth )
LightofTruth
Well-Known Member
Since you refuse to tell us the relevance of your question as it relates to the topic I don't know what's your point.
The topic is simply whether or not Jesus' genealogy traces back to Adam. That's it!
If Jesus came after Adam then Jesus is of the same nature as all others who came after Adam.
The JW here refuses to accept that truth.
LightofTruth
Well-Known Member
if you can't see the logical flaws in your claims that's not my problem.
If you read the previous posts in this thread you might see your flaws. As they are exposed there.
But I've had many, many discussions with members of religious sects who will simply refuse to accept logical reasoning and who rather enjoy where they're at.
I have no problem with that.
But don't pretend that your ideas are sensible, reasonable and logical when they are not.
firedragon
Veteran Member
I already told you I dont wish to get into a faith discussion here brother
There are so many assumptions that you are making regarding Jesus’ genealogy....
The list in Luke ch 3 begins with....
“When Jesus began his work, he was about 30 years old, being the son, as the opinion was,
of Joseph,
son of Heʹli......
<Rest of the list>
And finishes by saying....
....“son of Eʹnosh,
son of Seth,
son of Adam,
son of God.”
Apparently you have overlooked one important factor.
Each one is presented as the “son of” the previously stated “father”.
No other humans are called a “son of God” except Adam and Jesus who are both creations of the same Father.....Jehovah God himself, by means of his Holy Spirit.
Calling Adam a “son of God” is alluding to his creation, as a direct production of God. He was not born of a woman, like Jesus was because Jesus needed his lineage to form part of his credentials as Messiah. He was the adopted “son of Joseph”, recognised by all as his legal father and proof that he was born in the correct tribe and family.
Jesus is NOT a “son of Adam”, otherwise his death is meaningless as a “redeemer”. Equivalency under the Law meant that an equivalent life had to be offered to pay the debt that Adam left for his children. Adam paid for his own sin with his own life. Jesus came as a sinless perfect human in order to redeem all who descended from those sinful parents.
The sacrifice of his life paid for our release. Redemption laws are set.....only the full price, paid off the debt.....a perfect sinless life was required and Jesus came from heaven to provide it.
If he was a son of Adam, then he could not have redeemed anyone.
LightofTruth
Well-Known Member
You're saying that Jesus did not come from Adam? Didn't everyone come from Adam?
Being a son of Abraham and David sure sounds as if he came from Adam unless Abraham and David didn't come from Adam either.
So where did those THINGS come from. I call them THINGS because we don't know what they could be if they didn't come from Adam and therefore have Adam as their first father.
It is useless trying to tell you anything.....just read what it says. Jesus needed credential to be able to prove that he was the Messiah. His credentials came from his natural mother who bore the seed as a direct result of God's spirit creating the perfect life within her womb, and the lineage of his adoptive father Joseph who was a son of David and Abraham.
Mary and Joseph and perhaps a few close relatives knew about the circumstances of Jesus' birth but it was not broadcast publicly. Joseph was accepted as Jesus natural father by those in his community, but scripture tells us that Jesus was not the son of Joseph biologically. Jesus had all the rights of an adopted son. He was legally the son of Joseph, but he was not related to him biologically. Do you understand?
rational experiences
Veteran Member
A son is a man.
A man is sexually conceived.
Jesus was said to be immaculate.
Immaculate science thesis. Human man thinking said quote. Wrote quote.
O earth stone one God.
Earth from stone released spirit gas..not from any beginning put its stone gases into space.
Lying called space a womb of conception.
Science said gases change in vacuum pressure by condition space.
God O earth owned immaculate not any man. Owned by God O status stone.
Document written after the fact. A review.
Science factored the fact applied change.
Change is not science a fact.
Science even said Jesus is not a fact it was a cause.
We live safely balanced 12 clear non burning half...other 12 half sacrificed spirit. Owned by God
Known by a thinker said I will copy.
O factoring is for whole 24. Not any balance.
Science factored O all gases to be burning. God earth owned heavenly balances in vacuum.
Even confessed to setting alight even balanced night for six days. Vacuum stopped burning seventh.
Science knew.
Science preached man living not sacrificed was safe before in life before fact used due to immaculate status
It was taken away....he got life sacrificed.
Reviewing why life got sacrificed again from Moses review with new review gave a complete summation why. Did it again....science machine.
Moses had exodus nature combusted bushes burnt a huge desert formed forests gone.
DNA removed mutated only a small body of healthy DNA was left. The rest mutated. Small healthy amount human family DNA lived the rest mutated the theme exodus.
Life survived.
Heaven gas mass returned by asteroid wandering star witnessed watched. Immaculate heavens returned. Human lost DNA healed returned. Gas mass caused water held to ground human reasoning.
Science fixed damaged pyramids. Rebuilt temple science. Attacked life as new baby life dying witnessed Jesus attack ,33 years old loss life review.
Said Satanists did it again.
Irradiated burnt gases again UFO effect life was sacrificed heavenly mass previously returned was removed.
Not the same cause as Adam theme as the same mass was not removed.
Reason could not reset night time sky on fire as UFO gas mass cause had not stopped burning since science activated science change.
As heavens came from stone gas Alchemy changing stone burnt spirit gas mass out of heavens also. As above so below teaching.
Cause owns effect. Effect said cannot copy what change no longer supports being origin thesis for science.
Origin mass.
Science removed mass leaves holes. Then pretends that they never caused change is a brain effect.
Why science tried to claim Jesus not true. Science as it's own claim your thesis is not true. Science.
The Jesus explanation real human effect. DNA healed returned. Life reincarnated. Heavenly mass had been given back. Science removed life health as Satanists.
Self possession science mind returned when DNA healed. Then he can rethink what he did before the human warning.
As feed back owns increased transmitters it is how he theoried a destructive Moses re imaged theme as mass and life had been removed
The vision therefore only existed owning destructive advice already.
Copying that advice vision voice recording proved what a dimwit in life is.
Moses was not a beginning thesis its vision depicted reasoning why Moses destruction had been enacted upon life.