The JW's claim Jesus was not son of Adam.

[URAVIP2ME]

................... JW didn't exist until 1870 so it new.

True, I find the name Jehovah's Witnesses did Not exist until after the 1870's but Even Abel was a Jehovah's Witness because of Abel proved faithful to Jehovah God. Jesus witnessed for his God.- John 4:23-24

 

[URAVIP2ME]

Because it doesn't matter who sinned first or second. Both Adam and Eve sinned. Period.

Yes, they both sinned, but what if only one of them would have sinned ______________________
If only one would have remained faithful then human perfection would have been passed down to us.
Even science does Not know what would be the outcome of mixing perfection with imperfection.
Only the Bible answers that for us by God sending heavenly per-human perfect Jesus to be born as a perfect human.

 

[sooda]

True, I find the name Jehovah's Witnesses did Not exist until after the 1870's but Even Abel was a Jehovah's Witness because of Abel proved faithful to Jehovah God. Jesus witnessed for his God.- John 4:23-24

Jehovah's Witnesses: End Of The World Predictions - The ...
thewatchtowerfiles.com/endofworld

Jehovah’s Witnesses: End Of The World Predictions. It was a tremendous shot in the arm to their ranks and coffers both prior to 1914 as well as 1975. Perhaps Camping and his misled followers will point to the volcano that erupted in Iceland yesterday to try to beef up some sort of support for the date as the Watchtower did with the outbreak of World War I for 1914.

… you gotta get a gimmick. If you wanna get a hand.

 

[Cooky]

Yes, they both sinned, but what if only one of them would have sinned ______________________
If only one would have remained faithful then human perfection would have been passed down to us.
Even science does Not know what would be the outcome of mixing perfection with imperfection.
Only the Bible answers that for us by God sending heavenly per-human perfect Jesus to be born as a perfect human.

Okay, if we can return to planet earth now, we will see that there are no wild "what if's" in logical thought.

I mean "what if" God never created us? "What if" a triangle is a square?

....We can "what if" all day, but none of it means a damn thing.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

Jehovah's Witnesses: End Of The World Predictions - The ...
Jehovah’s Witnesses: End Of The World Predictions. It was a tremendous shot in the arm to their ranks and coffers both prior to 1914 as well as 1975. Perhaps Camping and his misled followers will point to the volcano that erupted in Iceland yesterday to try to beef up some sort of support for the date as the Watchtower did with the outbreak of World War I for 1914.
… you gotta get a gimmick. If you wanna get a hand.

Before the Great War 're-named World War I' there were No world wars. - Matthew 24:6
Thus, 1914 was the 'first application' of Matthew 24:7 in the 'acts of men'.
These war-like troubles were the start of such global or international troubles - Matthew 24:8
Remember: wrong guesses or calculations do Not make the Bible as wrong, just makes calculations as wrong.
As Daniel informs us that spiritual light, spiritual understanding increases with time - Daniel 12:4; Daniel 12:9.
We are now at the ' final phase ' of Matthew 24:14
How extensive the proclaiming about God's kingdom of Daniel 2:44 now has such far-reaching effects as that the good news of God's kingdom government now blankets over the world.
Even modern technology today has allowed for Scripture to be rapidly translated throughout the world.
Thus, people can now have Scripture in their own mother tongue or native languages as never before in history.
This is No gimmick as we are approaching the ' final signal ' so to speak, of 1 Thessalonians 5:2-3.
When the powers that be are saying, " Peace and Security..." that will prove to be the precursor to the coming great tribulation of Revelation 7:14,9.

 

[sooda]

Before the Great War 're-named World War I' there were No world wars. - Matthew 24:6
Thus, 1914 was the 'first application' of Matthew 24:7 in the 'acts of men'.
These war-like troubles were the start of such global or international troubles - Matthew 24:8
Remember: wrong guesses or calculations do Not make the Bible as wrong, just makes calculations as wrong.
As Daniel informs us that spiritual light, spiritual understanding increases with time - Daniel 12:4; Daniel 12:9.
We are now at the ' final phase ' of Matthew 24:14
How extensive the proclaiming about God's kingdom of Daniel 2:44 now has such far-reaching effects as that the good news of God's kingdom government now blankets over the world.
Even modern technology today has allowed for Scripture to be rapidly translated throughout the world.
Thus, people can now have Scripture in their own mother tongue or native languages as never before in history.
This is No gimmick as we are approaching the ' final signal ' so to speak, of 1 Thessalonians 5:2-3.
When the powers that be are saying, " Peace and Security..." that will prove to be the precursor to the coming great tribulation of Revelation 7:14,9.

Start with Daniel.. Its not about end times.. Its about the Maccabean war.

 

[Cooky]

Before the Great War 're-named World War I' there were No world wars. - Matthew 24:6
Thus, 1914 was the 'first application' of Matthew 24:7 in the 'acts of men'.
These war-like troubles were the start of such global or international troubles - Matthew 24:8
Remember: wrong guesses or calculations do Not make the Bible as wrong, just makes calculations as wrong.
As Daniel informs us that spiritual light, spiritual understanding increases with time - Daniel 12:4; Daniel 12:9.
We are now at the ' final phase ' of Matthew 24:14
How extensive the proclaiming about God's kingdom of Daniel 2:44 now has such far-reaching effects as that the good news of God's kingdom government now blankets over the world.
Even modern technology today has allowed for Scripture to be rapidly translated throughout the world.
Thus, people can now have Scripture in their own mother tongue or native languages as never before in history.
This is No gimmick as we are approaching the ' final signal ' so to speak, of 1 Thessalonians 5:2-3.
When the powers that be are saying, " Peace and Security..." that will prove to be the precursor to the coming great tribulation of Revelation 7:14,9.

I thought the Catholic Church was the Great Satan?

 

[URAVIP2ME]

Okay, if we can return to planet earth now, we will see that there are no wild "what if's" in logical thought.
I mean "what if" God never created us? "What if" the earth blows up tomorrow?
....We can "what if" all day, but none of it means a damn thing.

I find in the Bible there are No 'what if's' but what is logically in store for mankind.
Logically if God had never created us we would Not be here. ( Earth would be a Zoo without people )
Earth will Never blow up because as Ecclesiastes 1:4 B informs us that ' Earth abides forever'.
Agree, ' what ifs ' can Not mean a thing, but there are No ' what ifs ' in God's purpose.
What will Not abide forever is wicked people because they will be ' destroyed forever ' - as per Psalms 92:7
Logically then, only upright people will remain and inherit the Earth - Proverbs 2:21-22; Psalms 37:9-11

 

[URAVIP2ME]

I thought the Catholic Church was the Great Satan?

I suppose since Constantine was influenced by the Great Satan (that old Genesis snake in the grass) there is a connection because Constantine helped mix pagan thought with Scripture in order to make converts.
Not converts to 1st-century teachings, but to the teaching of men.

 

[Cooky]

I suppose since Constantine was influenced by the Great Satan (that old Genesis snake in the grass) there is a connection because Constantine helped mix pagan thought with Scripture in order to make converts.
Not converts to 1st-century teachings, but to the teaching of men.

Yes, of course.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

Yes, of course.

' Yes, of course ' means what __________________
Yes, men went against the teachings of Jesus____________ Matthew 15:9
Yes, the Bible is wrong and men's traditions are right ______________

 

[URAVIP2ME]

Start with Daniel.. Its not about end times.. Its about the Maccabean war.

I find the huge political statue of Daniel chapter 2 has Not yet collapsed.
We are at the now ' time of the toes ' or more like the ' time of the toenails ' for Daniel 2:43-44.

 

[Deeje]

But didn't Jesus come out of Mary's stomach?

Ummm...no he came out of her womb....but you knew that, right?

His life was transferred from heaven to the womb of an unmarried woman who was chosen as the vehicle to facilitate his birth. That gave him the technical and legal genealogy of both of his parents. Only his parents knew the circumstances of his conception. But Mary was as sinful as any human and therefore could not pass on any of her DNA unless it was first modified by God at conception. The fact that she offered a sin offering at the Temple after Jesus' birth shows that she was not sinless....not immaculately conceived.

If humans can perform IVF, and women can give birth to a child that is not genetically related to her, then what is to prevent God from introducing into the womb of Mary, a living life transferred from heaven. Do we imagine that his activities are governed by our limitations?

 

[Cooky]

Ummm...no he came out of her womb....but you knew that, right?

His life was transferred from heaven to the womb of an unmarried woman who was chosen as the vehicle to facilitate his birth. That gave him the technical and legal genealogy of both of his parents. Only his parents knew the circumstances of his conception. But Mary was as sinful as any human and therefore could not pass on any of her DNA unless it was first modified by God at conception. The fact that she offered a sin offering at the Temple after Jesus' birth shows that she was not sinless....not immaculately conceived.

If humans can perform IVF, and women can give birth to a child that is not genetically related to her, then what is to prevent God from introducing into the womb of Mary, a living life transferred from heaven. Do we imagine that his activities are governed by our limitations?

Believe what you want. It's ridiculous to me. And unbiblical.

 

[Deeje]

Stop.. There's no need to torture scripture. JW didn't exist until 1870 so it new.

Sorry, but Jehovah has always had his Witnesses. (Isaiah 43:10; Hebrews 12:1)

 

[Deeje]

Believe what you want. It's ridiculous to me. And unbiblical.

It is not unbiblical.....immaculate conception is unbiblical.

 

[Cooky]

It is not unbiblical.....immaculate conception is unbiblical.

Okay.

Bye.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

It is not unbiblical.....immaculate conception is unbiblical.

Since ALL( except Jesus) have sinned, then yes, Mary was Not immaculate as per Romans 3:23.
I find at Romans 5:12 B that ALL ( that would include Mary ) have sinned....
Romans 5:17 gives Jesus the credit

 

[Muffled]

The JW's claim that Jesus was not a son of Adam.

Here's the quote from another thread:

"Jesus was "the son of God"...NOT the son of Adam. Had he been a son of Adam, then he would not have been sinless. The ransom required the payment of an equivalent life....no son of Adam could offer the needed payment....a perfect life for a perfect life." --Jehovah Witness

What do you think?

I'd like to keep this debate within the context of the Scriptures

I believe this is the false Gnostic belief that the flesh is sinful. I also believe many Protestants hold to the concept that sin is passed on through the flesh of Adam but I do not believe that is the case.

I believe sin comes from the spirit and since Jesus has the Spirit of God He does not sin.

 

[Muffled]

Since that was in my post, I will offer the scriptural basis for it.

Galatians 3:13...
"Christ purchased us, releasing us from the curse of the Law by becoming a curse instead of us, because it is written: “Accursed is every man hung upon a stake." (Deuteronomy 21:33)

Christ's sacrifice paid a price...the price that was set by God's law.

Matthew 20:28...
"Just as the Son of man came, not to be ministered to, but to minister and to give his life as a ransom [Greek, lyʹtron] in exchange for many.”

"lyʹtron" is "the price for redeeming, ransom", according to Strongs.

What is a ransom?
If a kidnapper demanded a ransom for the return of the one they took captive, the price set by the kidnapper would be in accordance with what they believed the kidnapped person was worth.

Since God's redemption law was to pay a set price for what was to be redeemed, the debtor could not offer less and they would never have offered more.

God's law stated "an eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth and a life for a life" (literally "soul for soul") (Deuteronomy 19:21)
As an example Exodus 21:28-32 speaks about a bull that gores a person to death. If the owner knew of the bull’s disposition but did not take proper precautions, he could be made to pay, for the life of the one killed, with his own! Yet, what if the owner was only partially responsible? He would still need to provide compensation for the person's death. Appointed judges could impose a ransom, or fine, as a redemption price.

The man who paid the ransom for the human race had to be a perfect human of flesh and blood—the exact equal of Adam. (Romans 5:14) A spirit creature or a “God-man” would not balance the scales of justice. Only a perfect human, someone who was not under the Adamic death sentence, could offer “a corresponding ransom,” one corresponding perfectly to Adam. (1 Timothy 2:6) The Greek word here used, an·tiʹly·tron, appears nowhere else in the Bible. It is related to the word that Jesus used for ransom (lyʹtron) at Mark 10:45.

The New International Dictionary of New Testament Theology points out that an·tiʹly·tron ‘accentuates the notion of exchange.’

By voluntarily sacrificing his life, this “last Adam” could pay the wage for the sin of the “first man Adam.”(1 Corinthians 15:45; Romans 6:23)

Incidentally, did you know that Adam is identified as "a son of God"? (Luke 3:38) He rightly held that title because he was a direct creation of God...perfect in every way. There was no defect of sin in him until he disobeyed his Creator.

I believe you are assuming that God is following the same path that was followed in the past. I do not believe God is ever bound by the past. Rather the purity God is requiring is spiritual purity:
Heb 4:15 For we do not have a high priest who is unable to sympathize with our weaknesses, but one who in every respect has been tempted as we are, yet without sin.

I believe Adam was not perfect and that is why he could sin.

I believe that is nonsense. The battle is a spiritual battle:
Eph 6:12 For we do not wrestle against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the cosmic powers over this present darkness, against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly places.