The JW's claim Jesus was not son of Adam.

[Misty Woods]

Because it doesn't matter who sinned first or second. Both Adam and Eve sinned. Period.

I realize that sometimes it seems that some people make much ado about nothing, however, as children of our Almighty Creator, He certainly wants for us to
“Be filled with the accurate knowledge of his will in all wisdom and spiritual discernment, in order to walk worthily of Jehovah to the end of fully pleasing him.”—Col. 1:9, 10.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

Because it doesn't matter who sinned first or second. Both Adam and Eve sinned. Period.

In Scripture at 1 Timothy 2:14 it informs us that Adam was Not deceived, but Eve was - 2 Corinthians 11:3.
If Adam had Not sinned the issues started in Eden would Not have started.
So, yes it does matter that neither stayed faithful to their God.
However, the blame rests on Adam who ate second - Romans 5:19

 

[Cooky]

In Scripture at 1 Timothy 2:14 it informs us that Adam was Not deceived, but Eve was - 2 Corinthians 11:3.
If Adam had Not sinned the issues started in Eden would Not have started.
So, yes it does matter that neither stayed faithful to their God.
However, the blame rests on Adam who ate second - Romans 5:19

But Adam loved Eve. So he was torn between the two people he loved most -God and Eve.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

But Adam loved Eve. So he was torn between the two people he loved most -God and Eve.

I wonder if Shakespeare had Adam and Eve in mind with his Romeo and Juliet story.
Since Adam was Not deceived as Eve was, then Adam deliberately ate or in a sense choose suicide.
Seems as if Adam did Not want to continue living without Eve.
Eve threw away the great love Adam had for her.
So, Adam lost his trust in his God to straighten things out, and chose to do things his way instead of God's way.

I've heard it said that, so to speak, Eve cost Adam an arm and a leg.
And, that Adam and Eve ate us out of house and home.

 

[Muffled]

It just means Adam wasn't his life giver, he had no natural male lineage from Adam
like every other human has. Sin is passed on from Father to Son. This is noted all through scripture. Not so with Adam>>Jesus.He had no sin passed on because there was no human sperm involved in the process. Hence no life from Father to Son. There is a lineage back to Adam as Joseph was his Father although not his life giver.

I believe there is a theory that the genes carry a memory and of course that memory could be of sin but I don't hold to that theory. I believe sin comes from the spirit that indwells man.

 

[Muffled]

2 Timothy 3:16,17
"All Scripture is inspired of God and beneficial for teaching, for reproving, for setting things straight, for disciplining in
righteousness, so that the man of God may be fully competent, completely equipped for every good work."

So which is wiser??
To make the clear statements of scripture conform to our imperfect human conceptions of what may be implied??
Or
To believe the clear teaching of our Creator's Inspired Scripture, and accept that these perceived implications might be due to our misunderstanding of scripture or completely in error??

So does this mean such a person with a clear understanding of the scriptures doesn't think Jesus is the son of Mary?

 

[The Anointed]

Jesus the biological son of Mary and her half brother Joseph, who were both sired by Alexander Helios/Heli, of different mothers, was a genetic descendant of King David, who was of the seed of Adam.

 

[YoursTrue]

The question is concerned with your denial that Jesus was a son of Adam.
Please show from Scripture that Jesus is not a son of Adam.

Allow me to say something here. Mary was genetically Jesus' mother. He came from her genes and womb. Which she inherited from Adam and Eve's genes. God was his father in the way that his life was initiated in Mary's womb by God in heaven.

 

[LightofTruth]

Allow me to say something here. Mary was genetically Jesus' mother. He came from her genes and womb. Which she inherited from Adam and Eve's genes. God was his father in the way that his life was initiated in Mary's womb by God in heaven.

Many are confused with the idea that Jesus was a son of Adam(man) because they hold another idea that makes the 'son of man' idea confusing.

You have to follow reason.
If Jesus was a son of Adam and all sons of Adam have a fallen nature then Jesus had a fallen nature.

But they say Jesus did not have a fallen or sinful nature so how can he be a son of Adam (man). They're confused.

All they need to do is simply accept that Jesus' nature was the same as everyone else. Problem solved.

But what does it mean that Jesus was without sin?

It means that he personally committed no sin. And not that his nature wasn't sinful.

Get it right and it all fits like a glove.

 

[MonkeyFire]

Even still, LOVE is fallen.

 

[74x12]

The JW's claim that Jesus was not a son of Adam.

Here's the quote from another thread:

"Jesus was "the son of God"...NOT the son of Adam. Had he been a son of Adam, then he would not have been sinless. The ransom required the payment of an equivalent life....no son of Adam could offer the needed payment....a perfect life for a perfect life." --Jehovah Witness

What do you think?

I'd like to keep this debate within the context of the Scriptures

I think they're wrong. Of course Jesus must be the Son of Adam in order to redeem the children of Adam. He's both the Son of "Man" (Adam in Hebrew) and the Son of God.

 

[YoursTrue]

Can you at least admit that the flesh of man is sinful?

Jesus had a fight on his hands. He fervently prayed to the Father, his Father in heaven to do God's will. Like Adam, he could have sinned but he did not

English Standard Version
He committed no sin, neither was deceit found in his mouth.

I think they're wrong. Of course Jesus must be the Son of Adam in order to redeem the children of Adam. He's both the Son of "Man" (Adam in Hebrew) and the Son of God.

God’s holy spirit made the birth possible, so Jesus owed his human life to his heavenly Father, not to any man, such as his adoptive father Joseph. (Matthew 2:13-15; Luke 3:23). God was his father, watching over him.

 

[74x12]

God’s holy spirit made the birth possible, so Jesus owed his human life to his heavenly Father, not to any man, such as his adoptive father Joseph. (Matthew 2:13-15; Luke 3:23). God was his father, watching over him.

Mary his mother was descendant of Adam.

Paul says in Romans 1:3 that Jesus is the seed of David according to the flesh. That means he is also the seed of Adam according to the flesh.

He has to be the son of Adam in order to save Adam. Remember that every human comes from Adam including Eve. Now Jesus comes to restore Adam to the Sonship of the Father again. Because in Luke 3:38 we see that Adam originally was a son of God. That's why Jesus comes literally born of the holy Spirit (Luke 1:35) in order to make all who believe in Him also the children of God. (John 1:13)

So then Jesus being without sin dies on the cross in order to have the opportunity to rise from the dead free of the old flesh. And if you are become part of Jesus then the resurrection has begun in your inward person. So the resurrection has begun and you're only waiting for the redemption of the body. When it will be changed. That's why Jesus is the second Adam who is immortal. Because He already died and rose once for all time. If you want to be the second Adam; then you have to have the Spirit of Jesus Christ in you. Because no one can claim to be the body of Christ without the Spirit of Christ. (Romans 8:9) Because every "body" is the house for a spirit. And the body of Christ is the house for the Spirit of Christ and we (those of us with the Spirit) are like living cells of the body. And it's amazing that when they wrote the Bible they didn't know the human body was comprised of trillions of individual cells.Yet the scripture (inspired by God) says we are "living stones" (1 Peter 2:5) built up for a spiritual house of God.

 

[74x12]

Wrong not everyone came from Adam and Eve..
That's Pastors, Preachers teachings in the churches...
As there is no where in the bible thats written that everyone came from Adam and Eve..

God created male and female on the six day..

God Rested on the seventh day.

Then on the next day after the 7th day God created Adam and Eve..

6th day. 7th day. On the next day after
Male God the 7th day
And Rested Adam
Female And Eve

That's if you assume it's chronological ...

In any case Noah was son of Adam so everyone is from Adam.

 

[Faithofchristian]

Wrong...not everyone came from Adam and Eve..
As you have the 6th day creation of man and woman..

God created male and female on the six day..

God Rested on the seventh day.

Then on the next day God created Adam and Eve..

[6th day.] ---------- [7th day.] ----------[ 8th day]
[Male.]------------------[God.]--------------[Adam]
[And.]-------------------[ Rested.]---------[And]
[Female]----------------------------------------[Eve]

Adam and Eve were created on the next day after the 7th day God had rested.

 

[YoursTrue]

I think they're wrong. Of course Jesus must be the Son of Adam in order to redeem the children of Adam. He's both the Son of "Man" (Adam in Hebrew) and the Son of God.

Mary his mother was descendant of Adam.

Paul says in Romans 1:3 that Jesus is the seed of David according to the flesh. That means he is also the seed of Adam according to the flesh.

He has to be the son of Adam in order to save Adam. Remember that every human comes from Adam including Eve. Now Jesus comes to restore Adam to the Sonship of the Father again. Because in Luke 3:38 we see that Adam originally was a son of God. That's why Jesus comes literally born of the holy Spirit (Luke 1:35) in order to make all who believe in Him also the children of God. (John 1:13)

So then Jesus being without sin dies on the cross in order to have the opportunity to rise from the dead free of the old flesh. And if you are become part of Jesus then the resurrection has begun in your inward person. So the resurrection has begun and you're only waiting for the redemption of the body. When it will be changed. That's why Jesus is the second Adam who is immortal. Because He already died and rose once for all time. If you want to be the second Adam; then you have to have the Spirit of Jesus Christ in you. Because no one can claim to be the body of Christ without the Spirit of Christ. (Romans 8:9) Because every "body" is the house for a spirit. And the body of Christ is the house for the Spirit of Christ and we (those of us with the Spirit) are like living cells of the body. And it's amazing that when they wrote the Bible they didn't know the human body was comprised of trillions of individual cells.Yet the scripture (inspired by God) says we are "living stones" (1 Peter 2:5) built up for a spiritual house of God.

I'm not disagreeing about Jesus having had genes filtered down from Adam to Mary. There is more information at jw.org under the topic of Jesus. Jesus, however, was begotten by God, not Mary's husband, and never sinned. Also, sin was not found in him. So whatever that means by genetics and God's holy spirit is something I leave up to God. It was a miracle, an unnatural (supernatural) occurrence. Therefore all those having faith in Jesus and following him can look forward to a very good future. Philippians 3:10 -
English Standard Version
that I may know him and the power of his resurrection, and may share his sufferings, becoming like him in his death,

 

[YoursTrue]

Many are confused with the idea that Jesus was a son of Adam(man) because they hold another idea that makes the 'son of man' idea confusing.

You have to follow reason.
If Jesus was a son of Adam and all sons of Adam have a fallen nature then Jesus had a fallen nature.

But they say Jesus did not have a fallen or sinful nature so how can he be a son of Adam (man). They're confused.

All they need to do is simply accept that Jesus' nature was the same as everyone else. Problem solved.

But what does it mean that Jesus was without sin?

It means that he personally committed no sin. And not that his nature wasn't sinful.

Get it right and it all fits like a glove.

Again, to see what Jehovah's Witnesses have written about this, please go to wol.jw.org and look up Jesus. You will find out about a more official summary about his birth and life there.

 

[YoursTrue]

Many are confused with the idea that Jesus was a son of Adam(man) because they hold another idea that makes the 'son of man' idea confusing.

You have to follow reason.
If Jesus was a son of Adam and all sons of Adam have a fallen nature then Jesus had a fallen nature.

But they say Jesus did not have a fallen or sinful nature so how can he be a son of Adam (man). They're confused.

All they need to do is simply accept that Jesus' nature was the same as everyone else. Problem solved.

But what does it mean that Jesus was without sin?

It means that he personally committed no sin. And not that his nature wasn't sinful.

Get it right and it all fits like a glove.

Many are confused with the idea that Jesus was a son of Adam(man) because they hold another idea that makes the 'son of man' idea confusing.

You have to follow reason.
If Jesus was a son of Adam and all sons of Adam have a fallen nature then Jesus had a fallen nature.

But they say Jesus did not have a fallen or sinful nature so how can he be a son of Adam (man). They're confused.

All they need to do is simply accept that Jesus' nature was the same as everyone else. Problem solved.

But what does it mean that Jesus was without sin?

It means that he personally committed no sin. And not that his nature wasn't sinful.

Get it right and it all fits like a glove.

I can understand your comment about he personally committed no sin. But God was his father. Jehovah had an abiding interest in Jesus. From conception onward as a human. God chose Mary to be his mother. He knew who He was choosing to bring up his child. He also must have approved of Joseph to be his parent, husband of Mary.
Luke 1: In the sixth month, God sent the angel Gabriel to a town in Galilee called Nazareth, 27to a virgin pledged in marriage to a man named Joseph, who was of the house of David. And the virgin’s name was Mary. 28The angel appeared to her and said, “Greetings, you who are highly favored! The Lord is with you.”
There's more at Luke chapter 1 about God's choice.

 

[Faithofchristian]

That's if you assume it's chronological ...

In any case Noah was son of Adam so everyone is from Adam.

Noah and his wife and sons and their wives
As there were other people of all races on the ark of Noah's.

That's if you assume it's chronological ...

In any case Noah was son of Adam so everyone is from Adam.

You know this may ruffle people's feathers and step on people's toes..

All because God's word never lines up with what people are being taught in the churches by man's teachings and doctrines..

Since when is God's word is to line up to man's teachings and doctrines in the churches...you would think that Man's teachings and doctrines in the churches should line up to God's Word and not Vice versa..
Therefore with that being said.
In the book of Genesis concerning the flood of Noah's..

People are taught that only Noah and his wife and their sons and wives were in the ark..

But here we'll discover there were other people in the ark with Noah's family...

In Genesis 6:19-20..
Verse 19--"And of every living thing of all flesh, two of every sort shalt thou bring into the ark, to keep them alive with thee; they shall be male and female"
So here we find God speaking, saying to Noah to take of every living thing of all flesh, two of every sort shalt you bring into the ark. To keep them alive with you, they shall be male and female"
Now notice ( of all flesh, two of every sort)
This being of every Race of male and female..man and woman.

Notice in Verse 20, God speaking, saying to Noah--"Of fowls after their kind, and of cattle after their kind, of every creeping thing of the earth after his kind, two of every sort shall come unto thee, to keep them alive"
So here we find God saying to Noah what animals are to be taken into the ark.that two of every sort shall come unto you..to keep alive with you.
So what is this ( sort) this being of the animals.
Back in Verse 19, two of every living thing of (all flesh)..being flesh human beings...and this should not to be taken as animals..
Like I said this will ruffle some people's feathers and step on People's toes..
All because God's word does not line up to what people are being taught in the churches..
The Lord Jesus Christ said himself in
Matthew 15:7-9,
7--"You hypocrites, well did Esaias prophesy of you, saying,
8 This people draweth nigh unto me with their mouth, and honoureth me with their lips; but their heart is far from me.

9 But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men"



There you have Jesus Christ himself condemning man's teachings and doctrines in the churches...all because man's teachings and doctrinesm makes Void the word of God..

Okay by Man's teachings and doctrines in the churches will say that the flood of Noah's destroyed all life upon the earth..



But the question is?

In the book of Genesis 10:1-5

1--"Now these are the generations of the sons of Noah, Shem, Ham, and Japheth: and unto them were sons born after the flood.

2 The sons of Japheth; Gomer, and Magog, and Madai, and Javan, and Tubal, and Meshech, and Tiras.

3 And the sons of Gomer; Ashkenaz, and Riphath, and Togarmah.

4 And the sons of Javan; Elishah, and Tarshish, Kittim, and Dodanim.

5 By these were the isles of the Gentiles divided in their lands; every one after his tongue, after their families, in their nations"

If everything was destroyed by the flood of Noah's.

Where did the Gentiles come from?

As Noah's family were not Gentiles..

There is no where written that Noah's family as being Gentiles..

As Verse 5 plainly states the isles of the Gentiles divided in their lands, every one after his tongue...this being by their language.

So where did the Gentiles come from if to what man's teachings and doctrines will say that everything was destroyed by the flood of Noah's????

 

[74x12]

Noah and his wife and sons and their wives
As there were other people of all races on the ark of Noah's.



You know this may ruffle people's feathers and step on people's toes..

All because God's word never lines up with what people are being taught in the churches by man's teachings and doctrines..

Since when is God's word is to line up to man's teachings and doctrines in the churches...you would think that Man's teachings and doctrines in the churches should line up to God's Word and not Vice versa..
Therefore with that being said.
In the book of Genesis concerning the flood of Noah's..

People are taught that only Noah and his wife and their sons and wives were in the ark..

But here we'll discover there were other people in the ark with Noah's family...

In Genesis 6:19-20..
Verse 19--"And of every living thing of all flesh, two of every sort shalt thou bring into the ark, to keep them alive with thee; they shall be male and female"
So here we find God speaking, saying to Noah to take of every living thing of all flesh, two of every sort shalt you bring into the ark. To keep them alive with you, they shall be male and female"
Now notice ( of all flesh, two of every sort)
This being of every Race of male and female..man and woman.

Notice in Verse 20, God speaking, saying to Noah--"Of fowls after their kind, and of cattle after their kind, of every creeping thing of the earth after his kind, two of every sort shall come unto thee, to keep them alive"
So here we find God saying to Noah what animals are to be taken into the ark.that two of every sort shall come unto you..to keep alive with you.
So what is this ( sort) this being of the animals.
Back in Verse 19, two of every living thing of (all flesh)..being flesh human beings...and this should not to be taken as animals..
Like I said this will ruffle some people's feathers and step on People's toes..
All because God's word does not line up to what people are being taught in the churches..
The Lord Jesus Christ said himself in
Matthew 15:7-9,
7--"You hypocrites, well did Esaias prophesy of you, saying,
8 This people draweth nigh unto me with their mouth, and honoureth me with their lips; but their heart is far from me.

9 But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men"



There you have Jesus Christ himself condemning man's teachings and doctrines in the churches...all because man's teachings and doctrinesm makes Void the word of God..

Okay by Man's teachings and doctrines in the churches will say that the flood of Noah's destroyed all life upon the earth..



But the question is?

In the book of Genesis 10:1-5

1--"Now these are the generations of the sons of Noah, Shem, Ham, and Japheth: and unto them were sons born after the flood.

2 The sons of Japheth; Gomer, and Magog, and Madai, and Javan, and Tubal, and Meshech, and Tiras.

3 And the sons of Gomer; Ashkenaz, and Riphath, and Togarmah.

4 And the sons of Javan; Elishah, and Tarshish, Kittim, and Dodanim.

5 By these were the isles of the Gentiles divided in their lands; every one after his tongue, after their families, in their nations"

If everything was destroyed by the flood of Noah's.

Where did the Gentiles come from?

As Noah's family were not Gentiles..

There is no where written that Noah's family as being Gentiles..

As Verse 5 plainly states the isles of the Gentiles divided in their lands, every one after his tongue...this being by their language.

So where did the Gentiles come from if to what man's teachings and doctrines will say that everything was destroyed by the flood of Noah's????

1 Peter 3:20 states pretty clearly that only 8 souls were saved in Noah's ark. So, the males and females mentioned in Genesis 6 refer to various species of animals rather than races of human beings.

Yes Noah's sons were gentiles. We know that the Hebrews only come from Shem and furthermore they only come from Abraham. But not even all Abraham's descendants were considered Hebrews. For example Ishmael was not chosen so his descendants were the Ishmaelites and they were not counted as Hebrews. Only Isaac's son Jacob would really be the beginning of the Hebrews as a distinct nation.