The Lamb took the Scroll from the Hand of Him who sat on the Throne.

[Soapy]

How do you envision the scene depicted in the verse in Revelation which relates to an enthroned ruler, a Lamb (looking as though slaughtered), four Living Beasts, and twenty four elders?

• “Then I saw a Lamb that looked as if it had been slaughtered, but it was now standing between the throne and the four living beings and among the twenty-four elders. He had seven horns and seven eyes, which represent the sevenfold Spirit of God that is sent out into every part of the earth. He [the Lamb] went and took the scroll from the right hand of him who sat on the throne.“ (Rev 5:7-8)

Many opinions say that the Lamb is Jesus Christ and ‘He who sat on the throne’ is Almighty God: YHWH.

This appears to be the case as read - But since many more opinions are that Jesus Christ (The Lamb) is Almighty God, how can it be true that there is God on the throne but Jesus not on the throne but yet is ‘Almighty GOD’ who is ‘Seated on the throne’?

Moreover, the lamb is praised for being worthy to step forward (towards the throne) and take the scroll from the hand of almighty God who is on the throne! Is he taking the scroll from his own right hand?

But if Jesus is almighty God, doesn’t he already know what is written in the scroll?

And why is Jesus envisioned as a Lamb looking as though Slaughtered? Is Almighty God a lamb…?

 

[Eli G]

Very good point.

Jesus didn't know the content of the roll before taking it from the hand of God. The book of Revelation begins this way:

Rev. 1:1 A revelation by Jesus Christ, which God gave him ...

... and here:

Rev. 5:2 And I saw a strong angel proclaiming with a loud voice: “Who is worthy to open the scroll and break its seals?” 3 But no one in heaven or on earth or underneath the earth was able to open the scroll or to look into it. 4 I gave way to a great deal of weeping because no one was found worthy to open the scroll or to look into it.

No one until Jesus came back to heavens ... So, it is practically saying that what Jesus showed John was the content of the roll he received some time after ascending ...

Anyone who reads the book of Revelation realizes that it contains specific details about previous teachings and more detailed prophecies for the future that have not been given before. It seems clear to me that this new information would have much more importance for the true Christian congregations in the time of the end, one that would include not only the Jewish territory, as was the case of Jerusalem and its temple in 70, but an end of the entire human system of things that is separated from God and influenced by its spiritual rulers.

So we could say that, for example, the war in heaven and the expulsion of Satan from that environment after Jesus was enthroned (Rev. 12), would be a future event, since it was a new revelation given by God to Jesus and by him to John through the angel.

 

[Soapy]

Very good point.

Jesus didn't know the content of the roll before taking it from the hand of God. The book of Revelation begins this way:

Rev. 1:1 A revelation by Jesus Christ, which God gave him ...

... and here:

Rev. 5:2 And I saw a strong angel proclaiming with a loud voice: “Who is worthy to open the scroll and break its seals?” 3 But no one in heaven or on earth or underneath the earth was able to open the scroll or to look into it. 4 I gave way to a great deal of weeping because no one was found worthy to open the scroll or to look into it.

No one until Jesus came back to heavens ... So, it is practically saying that what Jesus showed John was the content of the roll he received some time after ascending ...

Anyone who reads the book of Revelation realizes that it contains specific details about previous teachings and more detailed prophecies for the future that have not been given before. It seems clear to me that this new information would have much more importance for the true Christian congregations in the time of the end, one that would include not only the Jewish territory, as was the case of Jerusalem and its temple in 70, but an end of the entire human system of things that is separated from God and influenced by its spiritual rulers.

So we could say that, for example, the war in heaven and the expulsion of Satan from that environment after Jesus was enthroned (Rev. 12), would be a future event, since it was a new revelation given by God to Jesus and by him to John through the angel.

The book of Revelation is a ‘Slow Drip’ revelation of what is and what must come to be.

It is written symbolically and revealed in relevant time periods so no one can claim they know [it all]. And even then, revelations and even proper interpretations will be classically dismissed by those who desire their own private interpretations used to deceive many and to hide the true purpose.

There are easily seen ones like Jesus saying:

• ‘I am he who was dead but am now alive forevermore’

Contrast with God saying:

• ‘I am he who is, was, and will be’

How can the two be confused? Yet it is … by Trinitarians!!

And also:

• ‘He that sat on the throne’ was given Worship by the kings who cast their crowns before him

and:

• ‘The Lamb standing in front and centre of the throne among the four beasts and the elders approached the throne and took the scroll from the right hand of him who sat on the throne’

How is it madd out that it is JESUS who is seated in the throne …?

‘Here is a call for wisdom: Whomever has an ear to hear, let him hear. Whomever has an eye to see, let him see!’

Hear and see: God is never said to be coming anywhere. God never leaves his ethereal throne!
There is a verse saying: ‘I am coming soon and my reward is with me!’. Can it be believed that anyone can claim that it is God speaking? What REWARD is with God. No! It is Jesus speaking - it is Jesus who is assuming the reward as ‘Most Beloved Son of God’ for his mighty works in salvation of mankind and bringing the age to a close giving back the kingdom to God: ‘He [Jesus Christ] will hand the kingdom BACK to Him [God] who gave it to him [in the first instance]’

 

[pearl]

There are countless interpretations of Rev.
* [5:1–14] The seer now describes a papyrus roll in God’s right hand (Rev 5:1) with seven seals indicating the importance of the message. A mighty angel asks who is worthy to open the scroll, i.e., who can accomplish God’s salvific plan (Rev 5:2). There is despair at first when no one in creation can do it (Rev 5:3–4). But the seer is comforted by an elder who tells him that Christ, called the lion of the tribe of Judah, has won the right to open it (Rev 5:5). Christ then appears as a Lamb, coming to receive the scroll from God (Rev 5:6–7), for which he is acclaimed as at a coronation (Rev 5:8–10). This is followed by a doxology of the angels (Rev 5:11–12) and then finally by the heavenly church united with all of creation (Rev 5:13–14).

* [5:1] A scroll: a papyrus roll possibly containing a list of afflictions for sinners (cf. Ez 2:9–10) or God’s plan for the world. Sealed with seven seals: it is totally hidden from all but God. Only the Lamb (Rev 5:7–9) has the right to carry out the divine plan.

* [5:5] The lion of the tribe of Judah, the root of David: these are the messianic titles applied to Christ to symbolize his victory; cf. Rev 22:16; Gn 49:9; Is 11:1, 10; Mt 1:1.

* [5:6] Christ is the Paschal Lamb without blemish, whose blood saved the new Israel from sin and death; cf. Ex 12; Is 53:7; Jn 1:29, 36; Acts 8:32; 1 Pt 1:18–19. This is the main title for Christ in Revelation, used twenty-eight times. Seven horns and seven eyes: Christ has the fullness (see note on Rev 1:4) of power (horns) and knowledge (eyes); cf. Zec 4:7. [Seven] spirits: as in Rev 1:4; 3:1; 4:5.

* [5:11] Countless: literally, “100,000,000 plus 1,000,000,” used by the author to express infinity.

 

[Eli G]

When John said:

Rev. 1:9 I John, your brother and a sharer with you in the tribulation and kingdom and endurance in association with Jesus, was on the island called Patʹmos for speaking about God and bearing witness concerning Jesus. 10 By inspiration I came to be in the Lord’s day (...)

... he meant he was watching visions corresponding to the future "Lord's Day". He was watching the future. That "Lord's Day" he was watching on visions, was the same Lord's Day Paul talked about in:

2 Thess. 2:1 However, brothers, concerning the presence of our Lord Jesus Christ and our being gathered together to him, we ask you 2 not to be quickly shaken from your reason nor to be alarmed either by an inspired statement or by a spoken message or by a letter appearing to be from us, to the effect that the day of [the Lord] is here.
3 Let no one lead you astray in any way, because it will not come unless the apostasy comes first and the man of lawlessness gets revealed, the son of destruction. 4 He stands in opposition and exalts himself above every so-called god or object of worship, so that he sits down in the temple of God, publicly showing himself to be a god. 5 Do you not remember that when I was still with you, I used to tell you these things?

 

[Soapy]

There are countless interpretations of Rev.
* [5:1–14] The seer now describes a papyrus roll in God’s right hand (Rev 5:1) with seven seals indicating the importance of the message. A mighty angel asks who is worthy to open the scroll, i.e., who can accomplish God’s salvific plan (Rev 5:2). There is despair at first when no one in creation can do it (Rev 5:3–4). But the seer is comforted by an elder who tells him that Christ, called the lion of the tribe of Judah, has won the right to open it (Rev 5:5). Christ then appears as a Lamb, coming to receive the scroll from God (Rev 5:6–7), for which he is acclaimed as at a coronation (Rev 5:8–10). This is followed by a doxology of the angels (Rev 5:11–12) and then finally by the heavenly church united with all of creation (Rev 5:13–14).

* [5:1] A scroll: a papyrus roll possibly containing a list of afflictions for sinners (cf. Ez 2:9–10) or God’s plan for the world. Sealed with seven seals: it is totally hidden from all but God. Only the Lamb (Rev 5:7–9) has the right to carry out the divine plan.

* [5:5] The lion of the tribe of Judah, the root of David: these are the messianic titles applied to Christ to symbolize his victory; cf. Rev 22:16; Gn 49:9; Is 11:1, 10; Mt 1:1.

* [5:6] Christ is the Paschal Lamb without blemish, whose blood saved the new Israel from sin and death; cf. Ex 12; Is 53:7; Jn 1:29, 36; Acts 8:32; 1 Pt 1:18–19. This is the main title for Christ in Revelation, used twenty-eight times. Seven horns and seven eyes: Christ has the fullness (see note on Rev 1:4) of power (horns) and knowledge (eyes); cf. Zec 4:7. [Seven] spirits: as in Rev 1:4; 3:1; 4:5.

* [5:11] Countless: literally, “100,000,000 plus 1,000,000,” used by the author to express infinity.

What are you saying? All you’ve done is present a flurry of interpretations of the incident which are no different from the original.

Also, you appear to have forgotten the rest of the O.P. which asks to comment on the trinitarian claim that it is Jesus Christ who is sat on the throne - Yeh, even WORSHIPPED by the elders.

The interpretations of the ‘taking the scroll’ is not a disputed theme.

 

[101G]

But if Jesus is almighty God, doesn’t he already know what is written in the scroll?

How IGNORANT can one be. study Matthew 6:3. and then "LEARN IN THE WISDOM OF GOD".

and to top that off, he who sits on the Throne is he who stands before the throne.

just sit down and LEARN. .... (smile)... but keep your ears open.... lol

101G.

 

[Soapy]

How IGNORANT can one be. study Matthew 6:3. and then "LEARN IN THE WISDOM OF GOD".

and to top that off, he who sits on the Throne is he who stands before the throne.

just sit down and LEARN. .... (smile)... but keep your ears open.... lol

101G.

Thanks. You make great sense!

 

[101G]

Thanks. You make great sense!

you're welcome, because it in the bible.....

101G

 

[Soapy]

you're welcome, because it in the bible.....

101G

What is in the Bible?

 

[101G]

you don't have a clue of the imagery of Revelation chapter 5 .... do U?

101G.

 

[Jimmy]

KIS

 

[Soapy]

you don't have a clue of the imagery of Revelation chapter 5 .... do U?

101G.

What??

What about chapter 5?

Are you saying that Jesus is standing in front and centre of the throne among the elders and the four beasts and takes the scroll from his own hands - because Jesus himself is the ond seated on the throne while standing in front and centre of it?