The Last Prophecy of Revelation

[Faithofchristian]

1. Which wrath will they escape? God or satan's wrath? I don't believe the wrath of God is on His true followers, but the wrath of satan is exactly the opposite and the true followers are exactly who satan wants to come against the most. (Rev. 13:7) Furthermore, although God's wrath is not on them; yet His chastening may be on them and the tribulation coming will force a choice.
2. If at every other point in history God didn't take them out of the world but supernaturally guarded them in the world: then why would it be different this time? (John 17:15) I pray not that thou shouldest take them out of the world, but that thou shouldest keep them from the evil.
3. I agree it's not a salvation issue, but it could affect people's salvation if they were counting on a rapture that doesn't appear. If they find themselves instead facing the wrath of satan then will they hold out or give in to the great temptation?

Your right again, The Wrath of God's does not come on God's elect people.

People who believe this are taught by man's teachings and doctrines, unto which Christ Jesus condemn in the book of Matthew 15:7--9.

 

[Phantasman]

No you look at it this way, when Christ Jesus returns, his feet will touch down on the mount of Olives.
When Christ Jesus ascended up as the disciples look on, the two angels that were standing there, told the disciples, that in the manner how they saw Christ Jesus ascend up to heaven, Christ Jesus shall ascend back.

Acts 1:9-12
Verse 9 --"And when he ( Jesus ) had spoken these things, while they beheld, he was taken up: and a cloud received him out of their sight.
And and while they looked sted-fastly toward heaven as he went up, behold, two men stood by them in white apparel; which also said, You men of Galilee, Why stand you gazing up into heaven? This same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as you have seen him go into heaven, Then returned they unto Jerusalem from the mount called Olivet, which is from Jerusalem a sabbath days journey"

Therefore Christ Jesus shall return back on top of mount of Olives, as he was taken up,

Who told you that Christ Jesus would not return to the earth.
When in fact God's word tells you completely different.

Evidently you make up your own agenda as to how Christ Jesus will return. Otherwise Who told you that Christ Jesus would not return back on top of mount of Olives.

When Christ Jesus returns,
that is his 2nd coming
Who told you, that it would not be Christ Jesus 2nd coming, Who told you this ?

Who told you these things?

As of a matter of fact Christ Jesus doesn't even gather up his elect people anyway. Christ Jesus sends his angels to gather up his elect people from one end of heaven to the other.

So who told you that Christ Jesus gathers up his elect people, When in fact Christ Jesus sends his angels to gather up his elect people.
Therefore as Christ Jesus stands on the mount of Olives and his angels are sent to gather together his elect people, from one end of heaven to the other.

Matthew 24:31 -"And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other"

So who told you that Christ Jesus gathers his elect people, When in fact Christ Jesus sends his angels to gather his elect people


Therefore as God has given the last Prophecy to happen in the book of Revelation.

That Christ Jesus can not return, until this last Prophecy happens that God has given in Revelation.
So either your right and God is wrong or God will be right and your wrong.

So by all means, Who do you think will be found in being wrong ?

So how is it that you call yourself a Christian, but yet, don't know what the Bible says.

Is it any wonder why Christ Jesus said in Matthew 24:5 --"For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many"
Who else come in the name of Christ other than Christians?
You do know that Christ is abbreviated for Christian.
Christ = Christian.

Therefore when you come deceiving people about the Rapture. Your doing exactly what Christ Jesus said in Matthew 24:5. "For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and deceive many"
Thereby your fulfilling Prophecy.

Guess I'll miss the great event since it will occur on the other side of the world.

Christ comes from the word Chrism.(anointing of the Holy Spirit). Catholic (orthodox) thought changed it to oil and balsam. (material).

Just like communion with God spiritually. Bread/flesh (Word) and Wine/blood (Spirit) became tangible so the church could dictate it.

 

[David T]

For those Christians, Who believe in the Rapture.

God has given in the book of Revelation, The Last Prophecy to happen, That when this Prophecy happens, Which brings the end to the Tribulation and the Return of Christ Jesus.

Christ Jesus can not Return until this last Prophecy happens, Which brings the end to the Tribulation and the Return of Christ Jesus and not before this Last Prophecy happens.That God has given in the book of Revelation.

Therefore for those Christians who believe in the Rapture, By the time your Rapture is to happen, The Tribulation has ended. ( Over )

The purpose of the Rapture is to Rapture people out before the tribulation. So that people are not here during the tribulation.

But seeing that Christ Jesus can not return until the last Prophecy happens, that God has given in the book of Revelation happens.
Which brings the end to the Tribulation and the return of Christ Jesus.

So what would be the use of the Rapture, when God gave the last Prophecy to happen in the book of Revelation, Which brings the end to the Tribulation and the return of Christ Jesus.

So what purpose would the Rapture be. Since Christ Jesus can not Return, until the last Prophecy happens, Which brings about the end of the Tribulation ?

If you have any questions, About what the last Prophecy could be, that God has given in the book of Revelation.

You will find the last Prophecy to happen in Revelation Chapter 11.

That when God's two witnesses are killed and God calls them up to heaven, and the
7th trumpet is sounded and then Christ Jesus returns, and brings the end to the Tribulation.
Revelation 11:9--15.

So if your looking to be Raptured out before the tribulation, I wouldn't count on it. Because Christ Jesus can not Return until the last Prophecy happens, And brings the end to the Tribulation, That God has given in Revelation 11:9--15.

My guess it was written as a confusion test. As soon as someone tried to interpret it they knew they were dealing with confusion. So you attempting to interpret would in the old days a sure sign of confusion!!!! So you believe the writers are lost in fantasy?

 

[Faithofchristian]

My guess it was written as a confusion test. As soon as someone tried to interpret it they knew they were dealing with confusion. So you attempting to interpret would in the old days a sure sign of confusion!!!! So you believe the writers are lost in fantasy?

The Rapture got it's start back in the 1830's
By Margaret McDonald a member of the brethren church in Glasgow, Scotland,
Went into a trance at a church meeting and said that Christ could come tonight, Then it was further taught, If Christ did come tonight, this would be the end of the age at which time the church would be
"Secretly Raptured"

Therefore the Rapture is no more than man's teachings and doctrines and has nothing at all to with Christ or what Paul had written.

 

[David T]

The Rapture got it's start back in the 1830's
By Margaret McDonald a member of the brethren church in Glasgow, Scotland,
Went into a trance at a church meeting and said that Christ could come tonight, Then it was further taught, If Christ did come tonight, this would be the end of the age at which time the church would be
"Secretly Raptured"

Therefore the Rapture is no more than man's teachings and doctrines and has nothing at all to with Christ or what Paul had written.

So how many interpretations are there? Is your interpretation the sole universial interpretation? I actually do have a degree in theology literally. Now I know it's nonsense itself but it does serve some purposes.... So what exactly are you basing how you understand the passages just by reading? Did you just pick the text up and are what interpreting it independent?

Clearly signs of mental disorder in what you are saying. That's OK it's normal in this culture. Atheists can have some same issues. Stop watching TV posting on religious forums. Start spending lots of time away out in nature breathing getting a reality check away. and don't start back on drugs or alcohol. Who knows maybe in 30 years you will start to understand the text actually.

 

[Faithofchristian]

So how many interpretations are there? Is your interpretation the sole universial interpretation? I actually do have a degree in theology literally. Now I know it's nonsense itself but it does serve some purposes.... So what exactly are you basing how you understand the passages just by reading? Did you just pick the text up and are what interpreting it independent?

Ok, so you say, that you have a degree in theology literally.

But yet, You haven't gave nothing, What the last Prophecy is, That God has given in the book of Revelation, But yet you go babbling on. But nothing about what the Thread is about.

It's not my interpretation, it's what God has given in the book of Revelation, which has nothing to do with interpretation. It's very plain and simple to see. If you have eyes to see and ears to hear.

So if I may ask you to explain what does wormwood means in Revelation 8:10,11.
Verse 10--"And the third angel sounded, and there fell a great star from heaven, burning as it were a lamp, and it fell upon the third part of rivers, and upon the fountains of waters"

So who is the great star that fell from heaven, who are the rivers and the fountain of waters to Repsents ?

Verse 11--"And the name of the star is called wormwood, and the third part of waters became wormwood, and many men died of the waters, Because they were made bitter"

Who is the star that's called wormwood, Who is that ?
What does the waters Repsents?

Now Remember that you said, You have a degree in Theology.
So it should be easy for you to tell, Who does the star that is called wormwood and the rivers and fountains of waters Represents?

Now also Remember that God has foretold in the book of Revelation who all these things Repsents in the book of Revelation.

 

[Oeste]

Which wrath will they escape? God or satan's wrath? I don't believe the wrath of God is on His true followers, but the wrath of satan is exactly the opposite and the true followers are exactly who satan wants to come against the most. (Rev. 13:7) Furthermore, although God's wrath is not on them; yet His chastening may be on them and the tribulation coming will force a choice.

They escape God’s wrath described as the seven seals (Revelation 6:1-17, 8:1-5), seven trumpets (Revelation 8:6-9:21; 11:15-19), and seven bowls/vials (Revelation 16:1-21)

You are correct that the wrath is not for God’s followers but to bring those who are not his followers to repentance (Revelation 9:4).

If at every other point in history God didn't take them out of the world but supernaturally guarded them in the world: then why would it be different this time? (John 17:15)

Jesus talked about this himself:

37 And as were the days of Noah, so shall be the coming of the Son of man. 38 For as in those days which were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noah entered into the ark, 39 and they knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall be the coming of the Son of man. 40 Then shall two men be in the field; one is taken, and one is left: 41 two women shall be grinding at the mill; one is taken, and one is left. 42 Watch therefore: for ye know not on what day your Lord cometh. (Matthew 24)​

and again we are told:

10 Since you have kept my command to endure patiently, I will also keep you from the hour of trial that is going to come on the whole world to test the inhabitants of the earth. (Revelation 3)​

I pray not that thou shouldest take them out of the world, but that thou shouldest keep them from the evil.

Yes Jesus did pray that and for good reason. There was much work to be done in order to bring the full measure of gentiles in. Remember though what he states later in that same prayer:

Father, I desire that they also whom thou hast given me be with me where I am, that they may behold my glory, which thou hast given me: for thou lovedst me before the foundation of the world (John 17:24)​

I agree it's not a salvation issue, but it could affect people's salvation if they were counting on a rapture that doesn't appear.

We’ll always have folks waiting for the rapture, just as we have folks who can’t wait for Armageddon. They were there at the time of Jesus and they’re here with us now. We’ve seen the Taborites and 1430, the Anabaptists with 1533 or 1536 (depending on which source you read), Archbishop Ussher prediction of 1644, William Miller’s “Great Disappointment” of the mid 1800’s, the Jehovah Witness’s 1914, and Harold Camping’s May and October of 2011.

In any event pre-tribs would only be waiting 7 years and mid-tribs 3 ½ until the millennial rule.

If they find themselves instead facing the wrath of satan then will they hold out or give in to the great temptation?

I see this not unlike the question asked at Luke 18:8

“…However, when the Son of Man comes, will He find faith on the earth?”​

The entire world faces the wrath of Satan and his demons now (Job 1:7; 1 John 5:19) but a lot of this is held back (1 John 5:18, 2 Thessalonians 2:7, Revelation 9:14). Rather than give in to temptation, Christ's followers are asked to fight the good fight and see the race through until the end (2 Timothy 4:7; Acts 20: 23-24).

 

[74x12]

They escape God’s wrath described as the seven seals (Revelation 6:1-17, 8:1-5), seven trumpets (Revelation 8:6-9:21; 11:15-19), and seven bowls/vials (Revelation 16:1-21)

You are correct that the wrath is not for God’s followers but to bring those who are not his followers to repentance (Revelation 9:4).

Paul said the rapture takes place at the "last trumpet". So that would obviously be the 7th trumpet of Revelation. 1 Cor. 15:52 in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, in the last trumpet, for it shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we -- we shall be changed: (Young's Literal Translation)

Jesus talked about this himself:

37 And as were the days of Noah, so shall be the coming of the Son of man. 38 For as in those days which were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noah entered into the ark, 39 and they knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall be the coming of the Son of man. 40 Then shall two men be in the field; one is taken, and one is left: 41 two women shall be grinding at the mill; one is taken, and one is left. 42 Watch therefore: for ye know not on what day your Lord cometh. (Matthew 24)

Good question. Who did the flood take away though? The righteous or the sinners? It took away the sinners. This is not necessarily about the rapture. If you read what Jesus said in Luke 17:20-37; the disciples ask Him "where Lord?" (because He keeps saying people will be taken away) Jesus reply is "Wheresoever the body is, thither will the eagles be gathered together." So, that to me, means that the people being "taken" are the ones who die. The ones left are left alive. So, that doesn't describe a rapture to me. Can you prove in the face of the evidence in Luke 17 that this is indeed a rapture?

and again we are told:

10 Since you have kept my command to endure patiently, I will also keep you from the hour of trial that is going to come on the whole world to test the inhabitants of the earth. (Revelation 3)

What we know for sure is that was prophecy to one assembly in Asia Minor. Can you prove it is prophecy to every Christian?
We know that elsewhere in the book of Revelation we see many saints beheaded and the Antichrist making war against the saints. So who are they?
Furthermore, in 2 Thess. 2, Paul seems to indicate that Jesus will not return and we will not be gathered to Him until the antichrist is revealed.

Yes Jesus did pray that and for good reason. There was much work to be done in order to bring the full measure of gentiles in. Remember though what he states later in that same prayer:

Father, I desire that they also whom thou hast given me be with me where I am, that they may behold my glory, which thou hast given me: for thou lovedst me before the foundation of the world (John 17:24)

Eventually yes. Yet, what Jesus previously said in that prayer is not negated by this.

We’ll always have folks waiting for the rapture, just as we have folks who can’t wait for Armageddon. They were there at the time of Jesus and they’re here with us now. We’ve seen the Taborites and 1430, the Anabaptists with 1533 or 1536 (depending on which source you read), Archbishop Ussher prediction of 1644, William Miller’s “Great Disappointment” of the mid 1800’s, the Jehovah Witness’s 1914, and Harold Camping’s May and October of 2011.

Which makes the rest of us look not so smart to the outside world.

I see this not unlike the question asked at Luke 18:8

“…However, when the Son of Man comes, will He find faith on the earth?”
The entire world faces the wrath of Satan and his demons now (Job 1:7; 1 John 5:19) but a lot of this is held back (1 John 5:18, 2 Thessalonians 2:7, Revelation 9:14). Rather than give in to temptation, Christ's followers are asked to fight the good fight and see the race through until the end (2 Timothy 4:7; Acts 20: 23-24).

True, we face temptation. Yet as you say Satan is restrained for now in many ways. He will be unleashed for a time and Apollyon will be unlocked from the pit. We'll have to face the wrath of satan and apollyon. Jesus said the gates of hell will not prevail against the church.

 

[Faithofchristian]

Paul said the rapture takes place at the "last trumpet". So that would obviously be the 7th trumpet of Revelation. 1 Cor. 15:52 in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, in the last trumpet, for it shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we -- we shall be changed: (Young's Literal Translation)
Good question. Who did the flood take away though? The righteous or the sinners? It took away the sinners. This is not necessarily about the rapture. If you read what Jesus said in Luke 17:20-37; the disciples ask Him "where Lord?" (because He keeps saying people will be taken away) Jesus reply is "Wheresoever the body is, thither will the eagles be gathered together." So, that to me, means that the people being "taken" are the ones who die. The ones left are left alive. So, that doesn't describe a rapture to me. Can you prove in the face of the evidence in Luke 17 that this is indeed a rapture?

Paul said no such thing about any Rapture that's man's teachings. And not Paul's.

When the 7th trump sounds Christ Jesus returns, and brings the end to the Tribulation, so what need would there be for a Rapture since the Tribulation has ended. The sounding of the 7th trump is what brings the Tribulation to it's end.

So what need would be for a Rapture since the Tribulation is over, done, ended.

What we know for sure is that was prophecy to one assembly in Asia Minor. Can you prove it is prophecy to every Christian?
We know that elsewhere in the book of Revelation we see many saints beheaded and the Antichrist making war against the saints. So who are they?
Furthermore, in 2 Thess. 2, Paul seems to indicate that Jesus will not return and we will not be gathered to Him until the antichrist is revealed.

Eventually yes. Yet, what Jesus previously said in that prayer is not negated by this.

Which makes the rest of us look not so smart to the outside world.

True, we face temptation. Yet as you say Satan is restrained for now in many ways. He will be unleashed for a time and Apollyon will be unlocked from the pit. We'll have to face the wrath of satan and apollyon. Jesus said the gates of hell will not prevail against the church.

 

[Enoch07]

For those Christians, Who believe in the Rapture.

God has given in the book of Revelation, The Last Prophecy to happen, That when this Prophecy happens, Which brings the end to the Tribulation and the Return of Christ Jesus.

Christ Jesus can not Return until this last Prophecy happens, Which brings the end to the Tribulation and the Return of Christ Jesus and not before this Last Prophecy happens.That God has given in the book of Revelation.

Therefore for those Christians who believe in the Rapture, By the time your Rapture is to happen, The Tribulation has ended. ( Over )

The purpose of the Rapture is to Rapture people out before the tribulation. So that people are not here during the tribulation.

But seeing that Christ Jesus can not return until the last Prophecy happens, that God has given in the book of Revelation happens.
Which brings the end to the Tribulation and the return of Christ Jesus.

So what would be the use of the Rapture, when God gave the last Prophecy to happen in the book of Revelation, Which brings the end to the Tribulation and the return of Christ Jesus.

So what purpose would the Rapture be. Since Christ Jesus can not Return, until the last Prophecy happens, Which brings about the end of the Tribulation ?

If you have any questions, About what the last Prophecy could be, that God has given in the book of Revelation.

You will find the last Prophecy to happen in Revelation Chapter 11.

That when God's two witnesses are killed and God calls them up to heaven, and the
7th trumpet is sounded and then Christ Jesus returns, and brings the end to the Tribulation.
Revelation 11:9--15.

So if your looking to be Raptured out before the tribulation, I wouldn't count on it. Because Christ Jesus can not Return until the last Prophecy happens, And brings the end to the Tribulation, That God has given in Revelation 11:9--15.

Pre-tribulation rapture comes from this woman. Margaret MacDonald (visionary) - Wikipedia Which is where the idea of a what people think of when the rapture is mentioned.

Rapture is not scripture though. The word does not exist in the bible. The idea of being whisked away at the last second to avoid trouble is nothing but a lofty fantasy.

Our job as Christians is to be like Christ. Hence the name Christian or Christ-like. Our job is to help people, to endure, despite being belittled, whipped, mocked, spit on and then crucified. There is no free pass or easy way out for us. The wheat shall be separated from the chaff in due time.

 

[Faithofchristian]

Pre-tribulation rapture comes from this woman. Margaret MacDonald (visionary) - Wikipedia Which is where the idea of a what people think of when the rapture is mentioned.

Rapture is not scripture though. The word does not exist in the bible. The idea of being whisked away at the last second to avoid trouble is nothing but a lofty fantasy.

Our job as Christians is to be like Christ. Hence the name Christian or Christ-like. Our job is to help people, to endure, despite being belittled, whipped, mocked, spit on and then crucified. There is no free pass or easy way out for us. The wheat shall be separated from the chaff in due time.

Look I never said the Rapture is in the Scriptures.
I have never believed in no Rapture Theory.

So I don't know where your coming from.
That's why I posted about that woman
Margaret McDonald to show how the Rapture came about.

Maybe you should read someone's post a little more slower, to see what they are saying.

This is one of the reasons why Christ Jesus said in Matthew 24:5--"For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ, and shall deceive many"
Christ being abbreviated for Christian.
Christ = Christian.

Therefore those christians who are teaching this Rapture Theory or anything else that is not according to scriptures, are those christians that Christ Jesus is in reference to,
As coming in his name, and shall deceive many. In Matthew 24:5.

 

[Enoch07]

Look I never said the Rapture is in the Scriptures.
I have never believed in no Rapture Theory.

So I don't know where your coming from.
That's why I posted about that woman
Margaret McDonald to show how the Rapture came about.

Maybe you should read someone's post a little more slower, to see what they are saying.

This is one of the reasons why Christ Jesus said in Matthew 24:5--"For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ, and shall deceive many"
Christ being abbreviated for Christian.
Christ = Christian.

Therefore those christians who are teaching this Rapture Theory or anything else that is not according to scriptures, are those christians that Christ Jesus is in reference to,
As coming in his name, and shall deceive many. In Matthew 24:5.

I know. I wasn't attacking or accusing you. Just putting the message out there for all to read. All is good.

 

[Faithofchristian]

I know. I wasn't attacking or accusing you. Just putting the message out there for all to read. All is good.

Ok, were all good √

 

[Faithofchristian]

Guess I'll miss the great event since it will occur on the other side of the world.

As to how do you figure out that you will miss it, When it is written in the book of Revelation 1:7 that every eye shall see him.
This means Everyone and Anyone will see Christ Jesus in his coming to Earth.

Christ comes from the word Chrism.(anointing of the Holy Spirit). Catholic (orthodox) thought changed it to oil and balsam. (material).

Just like communion with God spiritually. Bread/flesh (Word) and Wine/blood (Spirit) became tangible so the church could dictate it.

 

[Oeste]

Your right, there is nothing in the Bible to support a Rapture.

Really ? So exactly what does harpagisometha (1 Thessalonians 4:17) mean to you?

The purpose of the Rapture is to Rapture people out before the tribulation. So that people are not here during the tribulation.

That's not exactly true.

The word "rapture" is derived from the Latin raptus, which simply means "a carrying off". It's the equivalent of harpazo in Koine Greek.

Rapture eschatology is divided into 3 major categories:

1. Those who believe in a pre-tribulation rapture (or carrying off)
2. Those who believe in a mid-tribulation rapture, and
3. Those who believe in a post-tribulation rapture.​

Therefore the Rapture can not take place before the Tribulation, because the last Prophecy that God given, is what brings the end to the Tribulation and the Return of Christ Jesus.

I'm sure there are plenty of mid and post tribs who will be glad to hear this.

Therefore Christ Jesus can not Return before the Tribulation, not until the last Prophecy happens that God gave in the book of Revelation Chapter 11.

All that tells me is that you don't believe in a pre-trib rapture. It does absolutely nothing to foster your prior claim that a Rapture doesn't occur.

 

[Oeste]

Your right again, The Wrath of God's does not come on God's elect people.

Then you make a good argument for the Rapture, since we know God's wrath will eventually come.upon the entire world.

People who believe this are taught by man's teachings and doctrines, unto which Christ Jesus condemn in the book of Matthew 15:7--9.

Absolutely!

People who believe Christ would leave Christians to endure the Tribulation have apparently forgotten about 1Thessalonians 5:9:

“For God did not appoint us to suffer wrath but to receive salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ.”​

 

[Oeste]

Paul said the rapture takes place at the "last trumpet". So that would obviously be the 7th trumpet of Revelation.

The “last” trumpet does not necessarily mean the “7th” trumpet of Revelation.

The Greek “eschatos” (“last”) can mean last in point of time or last in point of series.

If Paul is referring to the 7th trumpet as the "last trumpet", where does the trumpet that sounds "after the tribulation of those days" (Matthew 24:31) fit into your eschatology?

Secondly, it would have been difficult for the Thessalonians to associate the trumpet described to them with the trumpet in Revelation, since Revelation had not even been written at the time of Paul's epistle to them.

Third, your analysis would have to reconcile a 7th trumpet that lasts for days and Paul 's description of a trumpet that lasts for a moment.

Lastly, even if by some chance the trumpets are the same, it does not negate the rapture. In fact, those who believe in a mid and post tribulation claim precisely this.

Good question. Who did the flood take away though? The righteous or the sinners? It took away the sinners. This is not necessarily about the rapture. If you read what Jesus said in Luke 17:20-37; the disciples ask Him "where Lord?" (because He keeps saying people will be taken away) Jesus reply is "Wheresoever the body is, thither will the eagles be gathered together." So, that to me, means that the people being "taken" are the ones who die. The ones left are left alive. So, that doesn't describe a rapture to me. Can you prove in the face of the evidence in Luke 17 that this is indeed a rapture?

I see a number of problems with such an analysis.

First, if the people, “taken”, are sinners, where are they being taken to, and how does this fit into your overall eschatology? Are you arguing for a rapture of the unrighteous?

Secondly, if by “ taken” you mean “death” or “die”…on what basis are you interpreting ”taken” in such a manner? The Greek παραλαμβάνω (paralambano) is used 7 times by Luke and 50 times in the New Testament. Not once, anywhere, does it mean “death”:

Paralambano: to receive near, that is, associate with oneself (in any familiar or intimate act or relation); by analogy to assume an office; figuratively to learn: - receive, take (unto, with).​

Neither am I aware of any Greek scholar who equates “taken” with “dying” or “death”.

What we know for sure is that was prophecy to one assembly in Asia Minor. Can you prove it is prophecy to every Christian?

The letters sent to the congregations are didactic and applicable to all Christians.

If you believe this was a prophesy to one assembly in Asia Minor, and thus not applicable to every Christian, then I see no reason for some to believe only Ephesians compose the actual body of Christ, , only the Corinthians saw things through a “glass darkly”, and that 1st Peter was addressed only to the Jewish exiles dispersed throughout the Roman empire. As such the New Testament would not be directed to Americans, Australians, French, Bolivians or others Christian nationalities living in our modern age.

We know that elsewhere in the book of Revelation we see many saints beheaded and the Antichrist making war against the saints. So who are they?

I am not a proponent of replacement theology so I believe they are Jewish Christians.

Furthermore, in 2 Thess. 2, Paul seems to indicate that Jesus will not return and we will not be gathered to Him until the antichrist is revealed.

Correct, but I’m not seeing how this impacts post, mid or even pre-tribulation eschatology.

Eventually yes. Yet, what Jesus previously said in that prayer is not negated by this.

That would be correct, but I’m not arguing John 17:24 negates John 17:15. All I’m saying is that John 17:15 cannot be seen to negate the rapture in lieu of John 17:24 because they are not mutually exclusive.

Which makes the rest of us look not so smart to the outside world.

Agreed.

True, we face temptation. Yet as you say Satan is restrained for now in many ways. He will be unleashed for a time and Apollyon will be unlocked from the pit. We'll have to face the wrath of satan and apollyon. Jesus said the gates of hell will not prevail against the church.

Also agreed. The tribulation period will be full of horrors…the scope of which the world has never seen before.

 

[Oeste]

Pre-tribulation rapture comes from this woman. Margaret MacDonald (visionary) - Wikipedia

This idea is pretty much debunked in the same article.

Rapture is not scripture though. The word does not exist in the bible. The idea of being whisked away at the last second to avoid trouble is nothing but a lofty fantasy.

You are correct. “Rapture” is not in scripture anymore than “bible” appear in scripture. However harpazo (ἁρπάζω) does appear in scripture

The word does not exist in the bible.

See above. Rapture is simply an English term for harpazo (pronounced har-pad’-zo) which means:

1. to seize, carry off by force
2. to seize on, claim for one's self eagerly
3. to snatch out or away
4. pluck

So while claiming the word “rapture” doesn’t appear in scripture is technically correct, any allusion that the theological concept can be dismissed because it doesn’t appear in scripture would be incorrect as harpazo appears 13 times in New Testament scripture.

 

[Enoch07]

This idea is pretty much debunked in the same article.



You are correct. “Rapture” is not in scripture anymore than “bible” appear in scripture. However harpazo (ἁρπάζω) does appear in scripture



See above. Rapture is simply an English term for harpazo (pronounced har-pad’-zo) which means:

1. to seize, carry off by force
2. to seize on, claim for one's self eagerly
3. to snatch out or away
4. pluck

So while claiming the word “rapture” doesn’t appear in scripture is technically correct, any allusion that the theological concept can be dismissed because it doesn’t appear in scripture would be incorrect as harpazo appears 13 times in New Testament scripture.

I'll leave you with Ezekiel 13 20-23

20 Wherefore thus saith the Lord God; Behold, I am against your pillows, wherewith ye there hunt the souls to make them fly, and I will tear them from your arms, and will let the souls go, even the souls that ye hunt to make them fly.

21 Your kerchiefs also will I tear, and deliver my people out of your hand, and they shall be no more in your hand to be hunted; and ye shall know that I am the Lord.

22 Because with lies ye have made the heart of the righteous sad, whom I have not made sad; and strengthened the hands of the wicked, that he should not return from his wicked way, by promising him life:

23 Therefore ye shall see no more vanity, nor divine divinations: for I will deliver my people out of your hand: and ye shall know that I am the Lord

Sorry brother there is no free pass. We (the flesh that yet lives on the day) shall suffer the same trials, tribulations and temptations that the heathens do, all the way to the bitter sweet end.

 

[Faithofchristian]

Really ? So exactly what does harpagisometha (1 Thessalonians 4:17) mean to you?

Ok, so let's break down
1st Thessalonians 4:17 to get the root of what is actually being said.

First Note Paul wrote --(Then we which are alive and remain ) This being those who haved made it through the Tribulation
( shall be caught up together with them in the clouds ) caught up with Who?

With those back in Verse 16
( The dead in Christ ) The dead in Christ, are those who are Spiritually dead --> The Unbelievers.

The dead in Christ ( Unbelievers shall rise first to be taken to Judgement ) Then we which are alive and remain shall be with Christ Jesus.

( To meet the Lord in the air )
The word (air) being Translation in the Strong's Concordance in the
Hebrew Language (5397) simply means
( Ruwach ) which means ( Spirit )

Therefore ( To meet the Lord in the spirit)
And so shall we ever be with the Lord.




That's not exactly true.

The word "rapture" is derived from the Latin raptus, which simply means "a carrying off". It's the equivalent of harpazo in Koine Greek.

Rapture eschatology is divided into 3 major categories:

1. Those who believe in a pre-tribulation rapture (or carrying off)
2. Those who believe in a mid-tribulation rapture, and
3. Those who believe in a post-tribulation rapture.​

I'm sure there are plenty of mid and post tribs who will be glad to hear this.



All that tells me is that you don't believe in a pre-trib rapture. It does absolutely nothing to foster your prior claim that a Rapture doesn't occur.