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The Limits of Hinduism

raater_aloo

Member
Hey y'all

Just want to get your opinions on this subject. It may have been already addressed as it constantly comes up, but I didnt find it in the archives.

What are the limits of Hinduism? In other words, what must a Hindu believe or not believe, do or not do, in order for you to consider them a Hindu?

Just to list off some criteria which people sometimes use:

1) Some people take the broadest interpretation and say that anyone who does study, meditation, and contemplation of themselves and the universe in order to ascertain the true nature of these things, is a Hindu. This is good because it covers pretty much everyone who is a truth seeker, but it also seems extremely vague and broad.

2) Others take a still very broad stance and say that anyone who subscribes to a philosophy originating in the Indian subcontinent is a Hindu, which includes Jains, Buddhists, Sikhs, Charvakas, etc. This seems convenient because it covers all reasonable border cases, but still problematic, because Jains Buddhists and Sikhs usually deny being Hindu.

3) Others say that anyone who self identifies as a Hindu is a Hindu. This is good because it gets around the Jain Buddhist Sikh problem, but then what if someone who is not recognizable as a Hindu in any other way, claims to be a Hindu?

4) Others couple number 2 and number 3, so that if someone ascribes to an Indian tradition and claims to be a Hindu, they are Hindu. I think this one is pretty close to the mark, but some people think it is perhaps too broad.

3) Others say that one must accept the Vedas as true revealed knowledge, i.e. be an "aastika." This has the benifet of describing discrete philosophies according to a traditional categorization. But then, one would conclude that some of the Brahmo Samaj was non-Hindu, as well as Ravidas and other Bhakti Panths.

6) Others say that one must believe in certain doctrines like Dharma, Karma, Samsara, Moksha, etc. This is good since the vast majority of Hindus share these beliefs. But again this would make the Brahmos non-Hindu, and also would make some of the authors of the Vedas not-Hindu.

7) Some rare few make belief in God a requirement to be a Hindu, but this is clearly not the case as is evidenced by the atheist aastikas like Samkhya and Purva Mimamsa.

8) Others define a Hindu by his or her practices. If he or she studies the texts, meditates, preforms hindu rituals, etc. then he or she is a Hindu. But many people who have Hindu beliefs don't do any of that, at least not on anything close to a regular basis.

There are probably some other definitions which people use. But which one do you think works best?
 

Aupmanyav

Be your own guru
Just want to get your opinions on this subject. It may have been already addressed as it constantly comes up, but I didnt find it in the archives.

What are the limits of Hinduism? In other words, what must a Hindu believe or not believe, do or not do, in order for you to consider them a Hindu?
You wanted individual opinion. Mine is that a person must subscribe to nine avataras and the tenth to come after 427,000 years later; and the person must not accept any God of Abrahamic religions. The person should also abide by 'dharma'. :D
 

raater_aloo

Member
You wanted individual opinion. Mine is that a person must subscribe to nine avataras and the tenth to come after 427,000 years later; and the person must not accept any God of Abrahamic religions. The person should also abide by 'dharma'. :D

Wow thats much stricter than I was expecting. So non-Vaishnavites who don't accept the 10 avatars are not Hindu in your opinion? Not trying to contest your view, just clarifying.
 

DeviChaaya

Jai Ambe Gauri
Premium Member
I think, Alooji, that Aupji might be taking the mickey. He is our beloved resident Hindu aetheist! Look at that cheeky grin he added on!

As for me I do not believe that Hinduism has limitations. It is the oldest continuing religious tradition in the world and as such it has grown and changed and shaped the very world. Even the Abrahamics must admit this - their beloved Greeks and Romans held the ancient Brahmins in very high regard.
 

raater_aloo

Member
I think, Alooji, that Aupji might be taking the mickey. He is our beloved resident Hindu aetheist! Look at that cheeky grin he added on!

As for me I do not believe that Hinduism has limitations. It is the oldest continuing religious tradition in the world and as such it has grown and changed and shaped the very world. Even the Abrahamics must admit this - their beloved Greeks and Romans held the ancient Brahmins in very high regard.

Bahahahahah man if he has been pulling me leg I sure deserve it... Oh well, I'm a n00b.

Very interesting answer though. Makes "what is Hinduism" or "who is a Hindu" very ambiguous, but as Hindus we should be comfortable with ambiguity. I guess you'd agree with the idea that if someone self identifies as Hindu, then they are Hindu?
 

Aupmanyav

Be your own guru
Wow thats much stricter than I was expecting. So non-Vaishnavites who don't accept the 10 avatars are not Hindu in your opinion? Not trying to contest your view, just clarifying.
Alooji (Thanks, DeviChhayaji, nice appelation), it is mainly the Vaishnava view that is triffled with by trying to add various Gods (Sahajananda and Jesus/Krishna being examples). Shaiva and Shaktas also face similar attempts - Dada Lekhraj of Brahma Kumaris or Mahavatara Babaji becoming avataras of Shiva and various ammas becoming avataras of Shakti to a lesser extent. This, I would term as blasphemy to Hinduism. No pulling of legs, this is my considered view. For Devichhaya ji, I remember a line from a Mohammad Rafi song:

Chino-Arab hamara, Hindostan hamara; rahane ko ghar nahin hai, sara jahan hamara.
(China and Arabia are ours, India is ours; we do not have a house to live, the whole world is ours)

Let us not be that expansive. It does not pay. We should be practical.
I guess you'd agree with the idea that if someone self identifies as Hindu, then they are Hindu?
Yes, I agree (under the conditions given above), or let the person place his/her arguments.
 
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Asha

Member
Namaste

3) Others say that one must accept the Vedas as true revealed knowledge, i.e. be an "aastika." This has the benifet of describing discrete philosophies according to a traditional categorization. But then, one would conclude that some of the Brahmo Samaj was non-Hindu, as well as Ravidas and other Bhakti Panths.


THIS !

But not only This

Not only accept but Respect !

It would seem that these days that regardless of sect there are two destinct forms of Hinduism, Cultural and Religious.

Frankly without wish to offend, find the term too broad and prefer the term Sanatana Dharma, but when speaking generaly Hindu-'ism' is more widely understood.

Except it is as you notice very hard to sucessfuly define.


Jai Shree Krishna
 

Asha

Member
8) Others define a Hindu by his or her practices. If he or she studies the texts, meditates, preforms hindu rituals, etc. then he or she is a Hindu. But many people who have Hindu beliefs don't do any of that, at least not on anything close to a regular basis.

I would agree with this to a large extent, I would expect a Hindu to adhere to some basic principles, these might differ from sect to sect, but none the less principles are a very important factor ....in my humble opinion.

However how many times have I heard young Hindus come to the temple to celebrate a festival, (or because their parents have draged them) say ''Oh I am allmost vegetarian, I allways abstain from meat when I visit the temple''.

As far as I am concerned if you profess to beleive in the principles you follow them all of the time.

Ok vegetarianism isnt followed by all sects, but it is the often lax and mixed standards that I am illustrating.

Jai Shree Krishna
 

Vinayaka

devotee
Premium Member
There are probably some other definitions which people use. But which one do you think works best?

Certainly one size does not fit all. What works best varies for each individual. Personally, I prefer 5, 6, and 8, over any vague stuff. Vague stuff allows for people to be Hindu on Thursday, Buddhist on Friday and Christian on Sunday.
 
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StarryNightshade

Spiritually confused Jew
Premium Member
The only official limitation that I know of is no eating beef (or no meat at all for more traditional Hindus). I personally still eat chicken, but try my best to abstain from other meats and am successful for about 99% of the time (but I still haven't touched beef in over a year).

I guess an unofficial limitation is that it's preferable that one does not mix Jesus (or other Abrahamic figures) into Hinduism.
 

Aupmanyav

Be your own guru
The only official limitation that I know of is no eating beef (or no meat at all for more traditional Hindus). I personally still eat chicken, but try my best to abstain from other meats and am successful for about 99% of the time (but I still haven't touched beef in over a year).
Congrats. Yes, this is one of the important rules - no beef. However, even traditional hindus and brahmins too can be non-vegetarian. I have heard that some Hindus eat beef, though I do not know about them.
 

Vinayaka

devotee
Premium Member
There are a ton of things that for me personally would put an individual outside of Hinduism.
- belief in any one of the Abrahamic prophets as personal Saviour (not so much as historical figure)
- denial of the authority of the Vedas
- adopting of beliefs that are traditionally of other faiths, and run as opposed to Hindu doctrine, like eternal hell, Brahman as Void, etc. This is far more aptly named 'syncretic'.
- not recognising any sort of dharma, or living in dharmic ways.

- But then, as most people know here, I'm sort of orthodox.
 

Chakra

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
There are a ton of things that for me personally would put an individual outside of Hinduism.
- belief in any one of the Abrahamic prophets as personal Saviour (not so much as historical figure)
- denial of the authority of the Vedas
- adopting of beliefs that are traditionally of other faiths, and run as opposed to Hindu doctrine, like eternal hell, Brahman as Void, etc. This is far more aptly named 'syncretic'.
- not recognising any sort of dharma, or living in dharmic ways.

- But then, as most people know here, I'm sort of orthodox.

I am in agreement with Vinayaka-ji.

Mainly, a Hindu should recognize the authority of the Vedas and accept everything that has been said in the Srutis, not just bits and pieces of it. I don't believe that you can do whatever you want in Hinduism. It has its own rules, guidelines, etc. If you are going to be a follower of Vedic religion, you should follow it completely. If you don't, then why bother calling yourself a Hindu?

Regards
 

GoodbyeDave

Well-Known Member
One thing I'd like explained, is how an atheist can claim to be a Hindu. Why does some-one call themself a Hindu if they hold a position that is absent from shruti?
 
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DeviChaaya

Jai Ambe Gauri
Premium Member
Alooji (Thanks, DeviChhayaji, nice appelation), it is mainly the Vaishnava view that is triffled with by trying to add various Gods (Sahajananda and Jesus/Krishna being examples). Shaiva and Shaktas also face similar attempts - Dada Lekhraj of Brahma Kumaris or Mahavatara Babaji becoming avataras of Shiva and various ammas becoming avataras of Shakti to a lesser extent. This, I would term as blasphemy to Hinduism. No pulling of legs, this is my considered view. For Devichhaya ji, I remember a line from a Mohammad Rafi song:

Chino-Arab hamara, Hindostan hamara; rahane ko ghar nahin hai, sara jahan hamara.
(China and Arabia are ours, India is ours; we do not have a house to live, the whole world is ours)

Let us not be that expansive. It does not pay. We should be practical.Yes, I agree (under the conditions given above), or let the person place his/her arguments.

Go to bed and wake up to a flurry of posts, eh?

Let us be practical - or simply me! - here. I personally do not believe one can be religiously Hindu and be a follower of Christ or Muhammed, or the Jewish One God. These three religions proscribe such things as the worship of form, whether it be in the form of a murti or an aniconic image such as the shaligram or lingam. To these religions it is blasphemous to assign anything like human characteristics upon God.

But in our vast net of Hinduism there are those who refuse to put form to God and those who find form to be best, or if not best than a stepping stone on the way to formless worship. We have the Gaudiya Vaishnavas who rail at the idea of God without form, prefering instead the beauty and captivation of with form and then we have certain Shaiva sects who refuse form - one of the reasons why you can find Shiva always represented as the lingam; while it can be considered an idol by the Abrahamics they would surely learn something if they ever actually thought to ask the so-called idolators what exactly they are doing.

Hindu is Dharma. Dharma is sanatan. Aupji, how would I say that in Hindi? (But please type it in English alphabet, I don't yet have my text books for Hindi!)
 

Chakra

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
Hindu is Dharma. Dharma is sanatan. Aupji, how would I say that in Hindi? (But please type it in English alphabet, I don't yet have my text books for Hindi!)

If I may... :)

"Hindu Dharma hai, Dharma Sanatana hai"
:)

Regards
 

Chakra

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
7) Some rare few make belief in God a requirement to be a Hindu, but this is clearly not the case as is evidenced by the atheist aastikas like Samkhya and Purva Mimamsa.

Dear Sir,
I didn't know that Purva Mimamsa was atheistic. Maybe MV ji can clarify. AFAIK, they believe in the Devas; they are polytheistic. Keep in mind that there is also a theistic Samkhya philosophy mentioned in the Bhagavatam.

Regards
 

Poeticus

| abhyAvartin |
Dear Sir,
I didn't know that Purva Mimamsa was atheistic. Maybe MV ji can clarify. AFAIK, they believe in the Devas; they are polytheistic. Keep in mind that there is also a theistic Samkhya philosophy mentioned in the Bhagavatam.

Regards

Purva Mimamsa is largely theistic. I touched upon this a few months back: http://www.religiousforums.com/forum/hinduism-dir/161567-defense-mimamsa.html. In a conversation with Tyaga-ji, I reiterate that the notion of disregarding or not believing in an Absolute or a One True God or holding no god or goddess as Supreme would tantamount to atheism to be misleading.

EDIT: Please keep in mind, however, that I haven't read all the bhasya-s on the Jaimini Sutra. However, a majority of Mimamsaka-s were theistic. But I have come across the argument that a few of them didn't believe in any gods or goddesses let alone in a One True God. Where I came across this, unfortunately I do not remember (it most likely was in one of the bhasya-s or commentaries on the Jaimini Sutra).
 
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