The logic of original sin

[dyanaprajna2011]

Let me see if I have this right. According to Christian theology:

1. God creates man in his own image
2. Man does not have knowledge of sin, and is sinless
3. God gives man command to not eat of one tree
4. Man eats from tree, committing sin
5. Due to this sin, all of humanity are now sinners by nature
6. God still judges man according to the sin he commits

So, God made man sinless. Man sins, and "infects" the whole human race with the "sin nature", meaning, that all people sin, regardless of whether they want to or not. They can't stop it, they have no control over it. The only way to overcome sin is by accepting the sacrifice of Jesus and being filled with the Holy Spirit. But, I'm confused. If man doesn't have the choice but to sin, then why is he still judged by God according to his sins? Where is the logic in the doctrine of original sin? Not to say anything about the morality of non-believers, but if accepting the sacrifice of Jesus and being filled with the Holy Spirit is supposed to help someone be moral, then why don't we see this? Christians are no more moral than someone of a different religion or no religion at all. The whole story is suspect, and filled with logical inconsistencies. Maybe someone here can answer these questions.

 

[Wakeup]

Let me see if I have this right. According to Christian theology:

1. God creates man in his own image
2. Man does not have knowledge of sin, and is sinless
3. God gives man command to not eat of one tree
4. Man eats from tree, committing sin
5. Due to this sin, all of humanity are now sinners by nature
6. God still judges man according to the sin he commits

So, God made man sinless. Man sins, and "infects" the whole human race with the "sin nature", meaning, that all people sin, regardless of whether they want to or not. They can't stop it, they have no control over it. The only way to overcome sin is by accepting the sacrifice of Jesus and being filled with the Holy Spirit. But, I'm confused. If man doesn't have the choice but to sin, then why is he still judged by God according to his sins? Where is the logic in the doctrine of original sin? Not to say anything about the morality of non-believers, but if accepting the sacrifice of Jesus and being filled with the Holy Spirit is supposed to help someone be moral, then why don't we see this? Christians are no more moral than someone of a different religion or no religion at all. The whole story is suspect, and filled with logical inconsistencies. Maybe someone here can answer these questions.

Your completely right, I also want to add that not only does god judge people because of the fall of man, but if necessary god will send people to hell because of the fall of man... And who deserves hell in the first place? I can't think of a single person who deserves eternity in hell. Even if you gave hitler one year for each jew he exterminated it would be like 2 million years, which is just a blip on the endless timeline that is eternity. But hell is the perfect form of suffering, so 50 years would probably be even more than enough. A God that sends its own creation to the perfect form of suffering for eternity either is quite immoral, or has no grip on the concept of time

 

[Gharib]

"the father shall not bear the sins of the son and the son shall not bear the sins of the father" (something like that) - The Bible

 

[Tarheeler]

Yeah, I have a lot of trouble with it too.

But it's necessary if your going to sell the accompanying idea of vicarious salvation.
The only reason to have Christ the redeemer is if everyone is doomed from the beginning.

 

[dyanaprajna2011]

Yeah, I have a lot of trouble with it too.

But it's necessary if your going to sell the accompanying idea of vicarious salvation.
The only reason to have Christ the redeemer is if everyone is doomed from the beginning.

Exactly. I think I've attempted to make that point here before. One cannot exist without the other. This is why you don't see the idea prominently in other religions of the idea of sacrifice. There is no concept of original sin, or that humans are inherently evil, in other religions. The whole thing makes absolutely no sense. And something I find more telling, is that Jews, of whom the Hebrew Bible/Old Testament belongs, have no concept of original sin. You'd think that it would be in there somewhere if it was so important. The whole thing is suspect to me.

 

[Tarheeler]

Exactly. I think I've attempted to make that point here before. One cannot exist without the other. This is why you don't see the idea prominently in other religions of the idea of sacrifice. There is no concept of original sin, or that humans are inherently evil, in other religions. The whole thing makes absolutely no sense. And something I find more telling, is that Jews, of whom the Hebrew Bible/Old Testament belongs, have no concept of original sin. You'd think that it would be in there somewhere if it was so important. The whole thing is suspect to me.

Yep. That was one of the major factors in me leaving Christianity. It just didn't make sense to me anymore.

 

[dyanaprajna2011]

Yep. That was one of the major factors in me leaving Christianity. It just didn't make sense to me anymore.

Same for me. It was one of the first, and bigger, reasons why I ended up leaving Christianity.

 

[BruceDLimber]

Let me see if I have this right. According to Christian theology:

...
4. Man eats from tree, committing sin.
5. Due to this sin, all of humanity are now sinners by nature....

EXCEPT that the Jewish scripture states explicitly in Ezekiel 18:14-20 that sin is NOT inherited and that the son shall not be liable for the deeds of his father!

So by this standard any doctrine that makes a contrary claim is non-scriptural heresy--which is precisely why some Christian churches REJECT this line of thought!

Peace,

Bruce

 

[waitasec]

Let me see if I have this right. According to Christian theology:

1. God creates man in his own image
2. Man does not have knowledge of sin, and is sinless
3. God gives man command to not eat of one tree
4. Man eats from tree, committing sin
5. Due to this sin, all of humanity are now sinners by nature
6. God still judges man according to the sin he commits

So, God made man sinless. Man sins, and "infects" the whole human race with the "sin nature", meaning, that all people sin, regardless of whether they want to or not. They can't stop it, they have no control over it. The only way to overcome sin is by accepting the sacrifice of Jesus and being filled with the Holy Spirit. But, I'm confused. If man doesn't have the choice but to sin, then why is he still judged by God according to his sins? Where is the logic in the doctrine of original sin? Not to say anything about the morality of non-believers, but if accepting the sacrifice of Jesus and being filled with the Holy Spirit is supposed to help someone be moral, then why don't we see this? Christians are no more moral than someone of a different religion or no religion at all. The whole story is suspect, and filled with logical inconsistencies. Maybe someone here can answer these questions.

funny thing is, the word sin does not appear in the fall narrative...
the first time the word sin and the concept of sin appears is here:
genesis 4:7 "...If you do what is right, will you not be accepted? But if you do not do what is right, sin is crouching at your door; it desires to have you, but you must rule over it.”

now according the the fall narrative god intended man to not know what is right and wrong since adam and eve were prohibited from partaking of the tree of knowledge of good and evil with the understanding that right = good and evil = wrong of course.

 

[connermt]

Yep. That was one of the major factors in me leaving Christianity. It just didn't make sense to me anymore.

Same here! Though, I will say, until I was exposed to other beliefs and independent critical thinking as a result of, among other things, asking questions, it made perfect sense to me.

 

[Nakosis]

Exactly. I think I've attempted to make that point here before. One cannot exist without the other. This is why you don't see the idea prominently in other religions of the idea of sacrifice. There is no concept of original sin, or that humans are inherently evil, in other religions. The whole thing makes absolutely no sense. And something I find more telling, is that Jews, of whom the Hebrew Bible/Old Testament belongs, have no concept of original sin. You'd think that it would be in there somewhere if it was so important. The whole thing is suspect to me.

Supposedly the concept of original sin was developed by some Christian theologian around 400AD.

They seem to have arbitrarily made up some religious ideology with no basis other then how a few chose to interpret the Bible. Then they coerce a large population into accepting it's truth.

It's part of western culture. Maybe best to toss out the concept as completely unfounded by anything other the the reasoning of a few misguided men.

However setting that aside, what is the story of Adam and Eve about. Does it have any significance at all?