Soapy
Son of his Father: The Heir and Prince
Which ‘Lord’ is being referred to in the phrase “The Lord’s Day”?
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"THE LORD'S DAY IS THE SABBATH DAY NOT SUNDAY ACCORDING TO SCRIPTURES
- Thread starter 3rdAngel
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Soapy
Son of his Father: The Heir and Prince
So who, today, is keeping the Jewish Sabbath Day as God commanded?
3rdAngel
Well-Known Member
There is no such thing as a Jewish Sabbath. According to Jesus the Sabbath was made for all mankind at creation (see Genesis 2:1-3; Mark 2:27)
Soapy
Son of his Father: The Heir and Prince
Oh, I forgot the definition:
- ‘Sabbath’ just means ‘Rest [from work]: “Sabbath (from Hebrew shavat, “to rest””
- ‘The Jewish Sabbath Day’: The seventy day of the working week according to Yahweh’s command; Do no work; worship God; Fo no evil
- ‘The Roman Sabbath Day’: A day of rest on the first day (according to the Jewish week); Do no work; Worship your God (Yahweh or Sol)
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3rdAngel
Well-Known Member
Lord God almighty
3rdAngel
Well-Known Member
God has a people that have kept His Sabbath all through time to Jesus and the Apostles and all the disciples after the death and resurrection of Jesus unbroken to this very present day who still keep it as a holy day of rest according to the commandment (Exodus 20:8-11).
samtonga43
Well-Known Member
And you fulfilled mine. Get some rest, SZ.
Subduction Zone
Veteran Member
But as usual yours were based upon your failures. Take a vacation sammy, you need it.
3rdAngel
Well-Known Member
Hello Soapy, The Hebrew and Greek noun of H7676 and G4521 shabbath of Gods 4th commandment does not mean rest. It is a noun that is descriptive or a name applied to "the seventh day of the week". The word that it comes from though is שָׁבַת (shâbath | H7673) shabath (note one b instead of 2 between H7676 and H7673). This is from Genesis 2:1-3 and means rest and is a action verb. So we keep the Sabbath by resting on the "seventh day" of the week while the name of the "seventh day" of God's weekly creation is simply called "the Sabbath" which is the noun of what we are to rest on.
Here is the Hebrew, Greek and scriptural meanings of the Sabbath here for your interest.
HEBREW DICTIONARY
Hebrew and Greek Dictionaries w/TVM, Strong - H7676
שַׁבָּת (shabbâth | shab-bawth')
Derivation: intensive from שָׁבַת;
Strong's: intermission, i.e (specifically) the Sabbath
KJV: ([phrase] every) sabbath.
Cognate Group: H7673 (cease), H7676 (sabbath), H7678 (Shabbethai), H4868 (sabbath), H7674 (cease), H7677 (rest)
Brown-Driver-Briggs Hebrew and English Lexicon, Unabridged - H7676
H7676. shabbath
שַׁבָּת111 noun feminineEx 31:41+ and masculineIsa 66:2, 6 (under influence of יוֺם in frequent הַשּׁ ׳יוֺם, AlbrZAW xvi (1896), 47) sabbath ( = ת + שׁבת; Late Hebrew שַׁבָּת, Aramaic שַׁבְּתָא, ; perhaps Assyrian šabattum (||um nu— libbi, day of rest of heart (i.e. propitiation) [of deity]: only in lexical Tablets); compare LotzQuaest. de hist. Sabbati, 1883 JenZA iv (1889), 274 ff. (doubts connection of Assyrian word with Hebrew Sabbath) IdS. S. Times, Jan. 16, 1892, 35 f. Muss-ArnJBL xi (1892), 93 SchwIdioticon 127; see (more recently) JastrAmos. J. Theol. ii (1898), 332 ff. ToyTBL xviii (1899), 190 ff. DrHast. DB SABBATH (1902) ZimKAT 3. 592 ff.; ZMG 1904, 199 ff. [15th day of month so called]458ff.); — absolute ׳שׁ Exod 16:25 64t.; construct שַׁבַּת 16:23 10t.; suffix שַׁבַּתּוֺ Num 28:10 3t. suffix; plural שַׁבָּתוֺת Lev 23:15 7t.; construct שַׁבְּתתֹ 23:38; 25:3, 8; suffix שַׁבְּתוֺתַי Isa 56:4 +, etc.; —
1 sabbath:
a. primitive ׳שׁ ליהוה Exod 16:25 (J), 20:10 = Deut 5:14 (ten words) Lev 23:3 (P); ׳הַשּׁ Exod 16:29 (J); שׁ ׳הַשְּׁבִיעִי בַּיוֺם 16:26 (J); on seventh day הַשַּׁבָּת יוֺם 20:8, 11 = Deut 5:12, 15 (ten words), so throughout; Exod 31:15 3t. P, Jer 17:21; Ezek 46:4; Neh 10:32 9t., + (|| new moon) Isa 1:13; Ezek 46:1; 2Kin 4:23; Amos 8:5, compare Isa 66:23 (twice in verse), also חג and מועד Hosea 2:13; time of change of watch in temple 2Kin 11:5, 7, 9 (twice in verse) = 2Chr 23:4, 8 (twice in verse); ׳הַשּׁ מיסך (in temple) 2Kin 16:18; originally observed simply by abstinence from labour Exod 20:9-10, = Deut 5:12-14; Exod 23:12 (E), 34:21 (J; BrHex. 181-195).
b. Deuteronomic reason for day is deliverance from Egypt Deut 5:15, hence its consecration, לְקַדְּשׁוֺ 5:12 = Exod 20:8; השׁ יום ׳קדּשׁ Jer 17:22, 24, 27 (especially no load carried), Ezek 20:20; 44:24.
c. intensified by anith. שׁ ׳חלּל Ezek 20:13 5t. Ezekiel; compare Neh 13:18. Phrases in H: (ה)שׁ ׳שׁמר Lev 19:3, 10; 26:2, then P Exod 31:13-14, 16; compare Isa 56:2, 4, 6; י ׳קדושׁ קָדְשִׁי, יוֺם: 58:13 (twice in verse) (with כבּד). H also שַׁבְּתֹתֵיכֶם Lev 26:35; הַשּׁ ׳מִמָּחֳרַת 23:11, 15, 16; שַׁבְּתוֺתַי 19:3, 30; 26:2; Isa 56:4; Ezek 20:12; 22:26, +8 t. Ezekiel; || מוֺעֵד Lam 2:6.
d. P gives as basis God's resting Exod 20:11; 31:17; י ׳שׁבתות Lev 23:38; ליהוה ׳שׁ קדשׁ Exod 16:23, compare Neh 9:14, ׳שׁ שׁבתון Exod 31:15; 35:2; Lev 23:3; השׁ ׳עשׂה Exod 31:16, שׁ ׳עֹלַת בְּשַׁבַּתּוֺ Num 28:10, compare Isa 66:23; הַשּׁ ׳בְּיוֺם הַשּׁ ׳בְּיוֺם Lev 24:8 on every sabbath, abbreviation שַׁבָּת שַׁבַּת 1Chr 9:32; לַשַּׁבָּתוֺת || חֳדָשִׁים + מועדים 23:31 3t. Chronicles, Neh 10:34 (ל omitted by error); work punished by stoning Num 15:32, 36; trade prohibited Neh 10:32; 13:15-21.
2 day of atonement is a שַׁבָּתוֺן שַׁבַּת Lev 16:31; 23:32 (P), compare שַׁבָּת שָׁבַת 23:32 (P).
3 sabbath year, שַׁבָּתוֺן שַׁבַּת Lev 25:4 (H); ליהוה שַׁבָּת 25:2; 25:4 (H), (הארץׅ רצה שַׁבְּתוֺתֶיהָ 26:34 (twice in verse); 26:43 (H), 2Chr 36:21.
4 = week(?): שַׁבָּתוֺת שֶׁבַע Lev 23:15 (H), seven sabbaths or weeks; (ה)שָּׁנִים שַׁבְּתתֹ שֶׁבַע 25:8; Lev 28:8 (H) seven sabbaths or weeks (of years), uncertain (see Mark 16:2, 9; Luke 18:12; Matt 28:1, compare Jewish-Aramaic usage); possibly שַׁבָּת Isa 66:23 = week (Du).
5 הָאָ֫רֶץ שַׁבַּת Lev 25:6 (H) = produce in sabbath year (growing of itself).
GREEK DICTIONARY
Hebrew and Greek Dictionaries w/TVM, Strong - G4521
σάββατον (sábbaton | sab'-bat-on)
Derivation: of Hebrew origin (H7676);
Strong's: the Sabbath (i.e. Shabbath), or day of weekly repose from secular avocations (also the observance or institution itself); by extension, a se'nnight, i.e. the interval between two Sabbaths; likewise the plural in all the above applications
KJV: —sabbath (day), week.
See: H7676
Cognate Group: G4521 (sabbath), G4520 (rest)
Variants: σάββατον
Hebrew Equivalents: שַׁבָּת, שַׁבָּתֹון
Greek-English Lexicon of the New Testament, Thayer - G4521
G4521 — σάββατον
σαββάτου, τό (Hebrew שַׁבָּת), found in the N. T. only in the historical books except twice in Paul's Epistles; sabbath; i. e.:
1. the seventh day of each week, which was a sacred festival on which the Israelites were required to abstain from all work (Exod 20:10; 31:13; Deut 5:14);
a. singular σάββατον and τό σάββατον: Mark 6:2; (16:1; John 5:9f, etc.; equivalent to the institution of the sabbath, the law for keeping holy every seventh day of the week: Matt 12:8; Mark 2:27; Luke 6:5; λύειν, John 5:18; τηρεῖν, 9:16; ἡ ἡμέρα τοῦ σαββάτου (הַשַּׁבָּת יום, Exod 20:8 and often), the day of the sabbath, sabbath-day, Luke 13:16; 14:5; ὁδός σαββάτου, a sabbath-day's journey, the distance it is lawful to travel on the sabbath-day, i. e. according to the Talmud two thousand cubits or paces, according to Epiphanius (haer. 66, 82) six stadia: Acts 1:12, cf. Matt 24:20 (the regulation was derived from Exod 16:29); cf. Winers RWB, under the word Sabbathsweg; Oehler in Herzog xiii., 203f (cf. Leyrer in Herzog edition 2 vol. 9:379); Mangold in Sehenkel v., 127f; (Ginsburg in Alexander's Kitto under the word Sabbath Day's Journey; Lumby on Acts 1:12 (in Cambr. Bible for Schools)). as dative of time (Winers Grammar, § 31, 9 b.; Buttmann, § 133, 26): σαββάτῳ, Matt 24:20 (G L T Tr WH); Luke 14:1; τῷ σαββάτῳ, 6:9 L text T Tr WH; 13:14; 14:3; Acts 13:44; ἐν σαββάτῳ, Matt 12:2; John 5:16; 7:22 (here L WH brackets ἐν),23; ἐν τῷ σαββάτῳ, Luke 6:7; John 19:31, accusative τό σάββατον during (on) the sabbath (cf. Buttmann, § 131, 11; Winer's Grammar, § 32,6): Luke 23:56; κατά πᾶν σάββατον every sabbath, Acts 13:27; 15:21; 18:4. plural τά σάββατα, of several sabbaths, 17:2 (some refer this to 2).
b. plural, τά σαββάτων (for the singular) of a single sabbath, sabbath-day (the use of the plural being occasioned either by the plural names of festivals, as τά ἐγκαίνια, ἄζυμα, γενέσια, or by the Chaldaic form שַׁבָּתָא (Winers Grammar, 177 (167); Buttmann, 23 (21))): Matt 28:1; Col 2:16 (Exod 20:10; Lev 23:32 etc.; τήν ἑβδόμην σάββατα καλουμεν, Josephus, Antiquities 3, 6, 6; add, 1, 1, 1; (14, 10, 25; Philo de Abrah. § 5; de cherub. § 26; Plutarch, de superstitione 8); τήν τῶν σαββάτων ἑορτήν, Plutarch, symp. 4, 6, 2; hodie tricesima sabbata, Horace sat. 1, 9, 69; nowhere so used by John except in the phrase μία τῶν σαββάτων, on which see 2 below); ἡ ἡμέρα τῶν σαββάτων, Luke 4:16; Acts 13:14; 16:13 (Exod 20:8; 35:3; Deut 5:12; Jer 17:21f); τοῖς σάββασιν and ἐν τοῖς σάββασιν (so constantly (except Lachmann in Matt 12:1, 12:12) by metaplasm for σαββάτοις, cf. Winers Grammar, 63 (62); (Buttmann, 23 (21))) on the sabbath-day: 12:1(see above),5, 10-12 (see above); Mark 1:21; 2:23; 3:2, 3:4; Luke 4:31; 6:9 (R G L marginal reading) (1 Macc. 2:38; the Sept. uses the form σαββάτοις, and Josephus both forms). On the precepts of the Jews with regard to the observance of the sabbath, which were for the most part extremely punctilious and minute, cf. Winers RWB, under the word Sabbath; Oehler in Herzog xiii. 192ff (revised by Orelli in edition 2 vol. xiii. 156ff); Schürer, Zeitgesch. 2te Aufl. § 28 II.; Mangold in Schenkel see, p. 123f; (BB. DD., under the word; Geikie, Life and Words of Christ, chapter xxxviii. vol. ii: p. 95ff; Farrar, Life of Christ, chapter xxxi. vol. i., p. 432f; Edersheim, Jesus the Messiah, vol. ii., p. 56ff and Appendix, xvii.).
2. seven days, a week: πρώτη σαββάτου, Mark 16:9; δίς τοῦ σαββάτου, twice in the week, Luke 18:12. The plural is used in the same sense in the phrase ἡ μία τῶν σαββάτων, the first day of the week (see εἷς, 5) (Prof. Sophocles regards the genitive (dependent on ἡμέρα) in such examples as those that follow (cf. Mark 16:9 above) as equivalent to μετά with an accusative, the first day after the sabbath; see his Lex., p. 43 par. 6): Matt 28:1; Mark 16:2; Luke 24:1; John 20:1, 20:19; Acts 20:7; κατά μίαν σαββάτων (L T Tr WH σαββάτου), on the first day of every week, 1Co 16:2.
SCRIPTURAL DEFINITION
- EXODUS 20:10 BUT THE SEVENTH DAY IS THE SABBATH OF THE LORD YOUR GOD...
As posted earlier, there is no such thing as a Jewish Sabbath. According to Jesus the Sabbath was made for all mankind at creation (see Genesis 2:1-3; Mark 2:27)
Sunday worship is not Gods' Sabbath according to the scriptures
God has a people that have kept His Sabbath all through time to Jesus and the Apostles and all the disciples after the death and resurrection of Jesus unbroken to this very present day who still keep it as a holy day of rest according to the commandment (Exodus 20:8-11). The Jews continue keeping God's 4th commandment as do many Christians groups throughout the world (e.g. SDA.s, Seventh day Baptists, Messianic Christians and many others).
Hope this was helpful.
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AdamjEdgar
Active Member
Let's not forget Seventh Day Adventists and Seventh Day Baptists...both these denominations worship the Sabbath on Saturday as commanded in Exodus 20.
We also believe in the modern relevance and ongoing validity of the Sabbath commandment based on the definition of the saints who will be saved in Rev 14
12Here is the [g]patience of the saints; here[h] are those who keep the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus.
CG Didymus
Veteran Member
Do know what happened to Tony's thread about "Evidence"?
Subduction Zone
Veteran Member
Not a clue. Perhaps they felt there was too much strife there.
samtonga43
Well-Known Member
You do? Now I wonder how you could possibly know this? Do you know how you know this?
Soapy, I did not think for one second that you would understand.
Trinity has its roots in Scripture.
God in Three Persons by Anthony Carter from What We Believe: 2019 Atlanta Conference
Proof that the Trinity is false? Let’s see it, Soapy.
1. “The first rule”? How many ‘rules’ are there, in your opinion?
2. Strawman. No one is claiming that the Father is ‘above’ the other two.
3. The Three Persons define who God is, while the One Essence defines what God is.
I didn’t make it up, Soapy. Read John 15:26
Jesus is begotten. Not created.
samtonga43
Well-Known Member
‘He who does all that the Father commands him to do! is not to say that God ‘adopted’ him as ‘Spiritual Son’.
I am very glad you can see that this is not taught to me. I have been taught the incomparable, beautiful, holy Truth of the Trinity.
No, I wouldn’t say that, Soapy. It is always useful to read someone else’s view on The Holy Trinity. But this is not new to me. Your non-trinitarian beliefs are very familiar to me.
‘catholic’ or ‘Catholic’?
I can answer your questions if you would like me to…?
101G
Well-Known Member
Addressing the OP,
as you state, "THE LORD'S DAY IS THE SABBATH DAY NOT SUNDAY". nor is it Saturday either.
if one is in Christ is not one at "REST" everyday?
Romans 14:5 "One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind." Romans 14:6 "He that regardeth the day, regardeth it unto the Lord; and he that regardeth not the day, to the Lord he doth not regard it. He that eateth, eateth to the Lord, for he giveth God thanks; and he that eateth not, to the Lord he eateth not, and giveth God thanks." Romans 14:7 "For none of us liveth to himself, and no man dieth to himself." Romans 14:8 "For whether we live, we live unto the Lord; and whether we die, we die unto the Lord: whether we live therefore, or die, we are the Lord's."
101G.
as you state, "THE LORD'S DAY IS THE SABBATH DAY NOT SUNDAY". nor is it Saturday either.
if one is in Christ is not one at "REST" everyday?
Romans 14:5 "One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind." Romans 14:6 "He that regardeth the day, regardeth it unto the Lord; and he that regardeth not the day, to the Lord he doth not regard it. He that eateth, eateth to the Lord, for he giveth God thanks; and he that eateth not, to the Lord he eateth not, and giveth God thanks." Romans 14:7 "For none of us liveth to himself, and no man dieth to himself." Romans 14:8 "For whether we live, we live unto the Lord; and whether we die, we die unto the Lord: whether we live therefore, or die, we are the Lord's."
101G.
AdamjEdgar
Active Member
People go to great lengths to quote references about the Sabbath that are not even on the topic of the Sabbath.
This is not a text about God Sanctifying the Sabbath as Sunday or any other day. You completely misrepresent what this is about.
Anyway, please show us a New Testament text where it says God...the Triune God or any of the three persons of the Godhead told us to worship Sunday as the Sabbath?
I ask this because, whilst a side issue largely irrelevant because of the complete lack of the biblical evidence, I'll bet like most who use your aeguemnt of worshipping everyday, your denomination comes together on Sundays!
Also let me refer you to Rev 14:12
12Here is a call for the perseverance of the saints who keep the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus.
Are you keeping the commandment that says...remember the Sabbath day to keep it holy. In six days the lord created the heavens and the earth, but on the seventh day he rested. He blessed the Sabbath day and hallowed it.
No other day in the Bible has ever been blessed and hallowed. So why the explaining away of the 4th commandment?
If you attempt to argue new covenant...that would be a mistake...I can show that covenant existed in Jeremiahs writings l hundreds of years before Christ...he (Jesus) was simply quoting Jeremiah 31:26-35...it's wasn't a new revelation. If achrist was planning on changing the Sabbath to Sunday, why worship the Seventh Day Sabbath for 33 years...modelling that command, and then after all that living and preaching throw it out? What teacher does this? It is not logical or consistent...and yet the Bible remains consistent on everything else across all 66 of its books!
If you check the title of this passage In Jeremiah 31:26-35 in some Bible's its even titled..."New Covenant"!
The new covenant is not about throwing out the old law...it's actually reinforcing it by writing the law on our hearts and in our minds!
It is misrepresenting scripture to then bring out the...Im saved by grace through faith argument. Our works are the fruits of our faith...no one was ever saved by their works...not even Abraham. He was clearly saved by grace through faith as well and that was thousands of years before Christ and what Paul wrote in Hebrews ch 8
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IndigoChild5559
Loving God and my neighbor as myself.
The commandment is to rest on the seventh day. Do anything besides that, and you are not keeping the sabbath.
3rdAngel
Well-Known Member
Hi 101G, nice to meet you. Sorry but I agree with the others. Romans 14 is about eating and not eating on days that men esteem over other day. It is not talking about the Sabbath anywhere in the chapter so you have to read that into the bible. Jesus and the Apostles as well as the early Disciples all kept the Sabbath and there was no division about keeping or not keeping Gods' 4th commandment in the days of Jesus or the Apostles. That all came centuries after the bible was written. So what you are proposing here is not biblical. There is not a single scripture in all the bible that says Gods' 4th commandment has been abolished and we are now commanded to keep Sunday as a holy day of rest. This is a man-made teaching and tradition passed down by the early Roman Church from Constantine to mainstream Christianity. We have all been taught lies at Sunday school. God is calling His people out from following these man-made teachings and traditions back to worship Him in Spirit and in truth according to His Word (John 4:23-24; John 17:17).
Take Care.
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101G
Well-Known Member
it's about the principles
that was under the OLD COVENANT.
101G establish the Sabbath. are we not holy? well supposed to be. be ye holy for I'm Holy, so is God Holy only on a certain day? Matthew 11:28 "Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest."
see above.
as said 101G establish it, in every day.
understand, we're under a NEW COVENANT. and it free us from these old traditions, including the Sunday or Saturday rest.
and u take care also.
191G.
.