The Love Hoax

[Fool]

This idea that I hear on occasion, that God is love.

Well no not really. The experience of "love" is really just a stimulus/response mechanism of the body. The stimulus being the 5 senses and the response being the chemicals released by the brain we crave. One of the main chemicals released being Oxytocin also called the "hugging drug".

Oxytocin gives us a feeling of calm and security. Those seeking God are probably just looking for an extra helping of oxytocin.

Of course the release of chemicals is triggered naturally through physical contact. However, we've also learned how to manually trigger the release of this chemical, through prayer, meditation, religious rituals.

So "spirituality" is really a process of learning how to triggers the chemical response we crave without the external stimulus.

The draw of spirituality is the addiction we have to these chemicals which cause within us the positive feelings we desire.

I suspect long ago we had a limited means of causing these chemical responses we become addicted to. Religion was developed around what was found, largely by trial and error, to cause the brain to release these chemicals.

Today, there exists a lot more ways of triggering these chemical highs. Movies, music, art. Exotic foods, travel to pleasure vacations etc...

Not that spirituality doesn't remain a viable option, but there exists a lot less need for religion these days.

BS you have it *** backwards.one doesn't have to love something external to itself


love is the stimulus that triggers the chemical response. you even explain that in your diatribe


it's called mind over matter; so when the mind, the spirit loves, the body responds with hormonal release.


the psyche definitely affects the body



https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/...oughts-neurotransmitters-body-mind-connection

 

[Nakosis]

BS you have it *** backwards.one doesn't have to love something external to itself


love is the stimulus that triggers the chemical response. you even explain that in your diatribe


it's called mind over matter; so when the mind, the spirit loves, the body responds with hormonal release. the body doesn't have much affect on the mind.


the psyche definitely affects the body



https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/...oughts-neurotransmitters-body-mind-connection

Actually, that is what I'm saying. The reason why we love is for the hormonal release. IOW the true motivation is the hormonal release.

The psyche has learned how to trigger this release through religious practice.

 

[Fool]

Actually, that is what I'm saying. The reason why we love is for the hormonal release. IOW the true motivation is the hormonal release.

The psyche has learned how to trigger this release through religious practice.

suppression of the hormonal release is atrophy and death. in order for the physical to thrive it has to have those hormones to grow and thrive; IOW it can't evolve without them

 

[Nakosis]

suppression of the hormonal release is atrophy and death. in order for the physical to thrive it has to have those hormones to grow and thrive; IOW it can't evolve without them

Certainly not asking anyone to suppress their hormonal release. Just suggesting that over the years man has found other ways to trigger this release. Perhaps a reason religion is not seen as important as it used to be.

Lots of materialistic avenues available these days to get your jollies.

 

[lewisnotmiller]

Wasn't trying to preclude God. Just this idea that God equals love reduced God to a chemical addiction.

Ahhh...okay, gotya. I slightly misunderstood your point.

 

[halbhh]

This idea that I hear on occasion, that God is love.

Well no not really. The experience of "love" is really just a stimulus/response mechanism of the body. The stimulus being the 5 senses and the response being the chemicals released by the brain we crave. One of the main chemicals released being Oxytocin also called the "hugging drug".

Oxytocin gives us a feeling of calm and security. Those seeking God are probably just looking for an extra helping of oxytocin.

Of course the release of chemicals is triggered naturally through physical contact. However, we've also learned how to manually trigger the release of this chemical, through prayer, meditation, religious rituals.

So "spirituality" is really a process of learning how to triggers the chemical response we crave without the external stimulus.

The draw of spirituality is the addiction we have to these chemicals which cause within us the positive feelings we desire.

I suspect long ago we had a limited means of causing these chemical responses we become addicted to. Religion was developed around what was found, largely by trial and error, to cause the brain to release these chemicals.

Today, there exists a lot more ways of triggering these chemical highs. Movies, music, art. Exotic foods, travel to pleasure vacations etc...

Not that spirituality doesn't remain a viable option, but there exists a lot less need for religion these days.

While this is true for some situations: "The experience of "love" is really just a stimulus/response mechanism of the body." -- it may not account for all situations. (of course). We might wonder if it would necessarily be the same kind of "love" being referred to in relation to the divine.

But, even without considering the divine, one could start for instance (even as a non believer) by considering the varieties of ordinary loves, to find out if 1 or more are exceptions.

Here's a handy webpage I just searched up:
The 8 Different Types of Love + the Perfect Combo for You | FTD

 

[1213]

...
Nothing changed except your actions caused a different set of chemicals to be released.

So, basically you say that one can change what chemical reactions happens by his own will and actually all those reactions are only result of what person thinks?

 

[Quagmire]

This idea that I hear on occasion, that God is love.

Well no not really. The experience of "love" is really just a stimulus/response mechanism of the body.

The experience of a tree is really just a stimulus response mechanism of the body.

Doesn't mean that's all the tree is.

 

[Nakosis]

While this is true for some situations: "The experience of "love" is really just a stimulus/response mechanism of the body." -- it may not account for all situations. (of course). We might wonder if it would necessarily be the same kind of "love" being referred to in relation to the divine.

But, even without considering the divine, one could start for instance (even as a non believer) by considering the varieties of ordinary loves, to find out if 1 or more are exceptions.

Here's a handy webpage I just searched up:
The 8 Different Types of Love + the Perfect Combo for You | FTD

I agree this would be useful, but the complexities of stimulus/neuro responses are beyond the scope of my simple example presented here.

There lots of stimuli, lots of neurochemicals, lots of behavior involved. I suspect the different types of love could be explained by these complexities.

 

[halbhh]

I agree this would be useful, but the complexities of stimulus/neuro responses are beyond the scope of my simple example presented here.

There lots of stimuli, lots of neurochemicals, lots of behavior involved. I suspect the different types of love could be explained by these complexities.

hmmm... Ok, the first question that would come to mind for a non believer I'd think (having been one about 25 years in the past) is what about 'self-sacrificing' love? Where someone knowingly goes into what is likely to cause their own death to save the lives of others, even strangers.

 

[Nakosis]

So, basically you say that one can change what chemical reactions happens by his own will and actually all those reactions are only result of what person thinks?

No, only this is possible. Normal course it is external stimuli that triggers the response. That's why folks get addicted to things like eating and sex. They need the external stimulus to get the desired feelings. However, a person can learn to trigger these neuro responses.

For example, just choosing to go through the motions of laughing can cause a release of chemicals that will start to make you feel better about things.

 

[Nakosis]

hmmm... Ok, the first question that would come to mind for a non believer I'd think (having been one about 25 years in the past) is what about 'self-sacrificing' love? Where someone knowingly goes into what is likely to cause their own death to save the lives of others, even strangers.

I think to some degree people can learn to act against their feelings. They might accept an honor code that supersedes any feelings involved.

Feelings are just part of the puzzle of what motivates us. It's a big part IMO but still only a part.

 

[WalterTrull]

New This idea that I hear on occasion, that God is love.

Well. sort of. It's catchy, true, but sort of misleading methinks.
To me love is how we recognize God. The proof, if you will (I know you probably won't, nevertheless). The attraction seems a recognition of self, the appearance of oneness. (Just my generally not-accepted view)

 

[1213]

...For example, just choosing to go through the motions of laughing can cause a release of chemicals that will start to make you feel better about things.

I think it is the same in all cases. It is the ideas person has in mind that causes the reactions. When person has nothing to anticipate, the drug loses its power. That is why drug addicts usually need more than they had last time.

 

[Yerda]

The effect of these chemicals is known. It's not speculation.

I'm sure they know plenty. I'm not sure the state of the neuro/bioscience is such that we can say that love is just a stimulus/response mechanism.

Maybe you can elaborate a little on what that means?

People do. You ought to try it

Is there something about my conduct on here that suggests I don't like hugs? I'll have you know I'm a very physically affectionate person.

You ought to look into what is known about brain chemistry especially these for chemicals.
endorphin, oxytocin, serotonin, and dopamine. These are the ones that cause positive feelings. It's not made up or speculation, it's fact. I won't go into speculation about God, however just to say God is not necessary. Belief can certainly be useful in triggering the release of these chemicals, but God is not needed to create the spiritual feelings we crave.

I agree. I'm not saying that 'God is love' is particularly useful or that God is a good way of explaining love. As an atheist that would leave me in something of a bind.

There are other chemicals that cause bad feelings. This is all known, documented. There is nothing else that needs to exist to explain the "spiritual" experience.

I'm not sure what you mean. Some neurotransmitters associate with positive states and some associate with negative states and this explains the spiritual experience?

 

[Nakosis]

I'm sure they know plenty. I'm not sure the state of the neuro/bioscience is such that we can say that love is just a stimulus/response mechanism.

Maybe you can elaborate a little on what that means?



Is there something about my conduct on here that suggests I don't like hugs? I'll have you know I'm a very physically affectionate person.

I'm looking for the why, the motivation for, in this case, seeking love. Why do we care about love, being loved, giving love?
I think we seek out the feelings associated with love. Is feelings matter of these neurotransmitters? I'm not aware of anything else going on.

Question, why do you hug? What is your motivation for hugging. While we may have thoughts justifying these actions, I suspect the real motivation is we are seeking these feelings created by the neurotransmitters.

I agree. I'm not saying that 'God is love' is particularly useful or that God is a good way of explaining love. As an atheist that would leave me in something of a bind.

Again, what I suspect is that religion has evolved along the lines of causing these feelings we seek. God is love. Ok this means to me that God is a way of creating the feelings associated with love. This idea allows people to feel loved and to give love. I don't think this is a conscious decision, just by religious thoughts/practice we discovered we could cause the feeling i.e. release of neurotransmitters we were seeking.

I'm not sure what you mean. Some neurotransmitters associate with positive states and some associate with negative states and this explains the spiritual experience?

I just mean the whole stimulus/response mechanism is pretty complex. But this is really the sum of what experience is. When we say we experience something it really means we are recording/observing this process of stimulus/response.