The Love Hoax

[Nakosis]

In the Greek language they had four (4) different words for love.
The Oxytocin type is more like the EROS type of love, sexual love.
Then there is PHILIA or brotherly love, warm love with affection or fondness for someone.
They also had STORGE which is family love, love of family.
Finally, there is AGAPE' love, or love based on principles. Emotion does Not have to be involved such as: Love (Agape) your enemies.

Love based on principle, is that really love?

I was just using love as an example. More interesting I find is the idea that feelings are a chemical process of the brain.

You love your enemies why? A feeling of moral uprightness. I was going to say moral superiority but thought it might be taken the wrong way.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

Ok, love is becoming selfless. What do you get out of it? Why become selfless?

I find Jesus taught about having 'self-sacrificing love' ( John 13:34-35)
In other words, to now love neighbor MORE than self, more than the Golden Rule of Leviticus 19:18.
What we can get out of it is a clear conscience and according to Scripture get ' everlasting life ' out of it.
Heaven is promised to some like the people mentioned at Luke 22:28-30; Daniel 7:18; Revelation 2:10.
Eternal life on Earth for the majority of mankind because 'there is going to be' a resurrection...... - Acts of the Apostles 24:15
A happy-and-healthy physical resurrection for most of mankind with the opportunity to live forever on Earth as originally offered to Adam before his downfall.

 

[Nakosis]

I find Jesus taught about having 'self-sacrificing love' ( John 13:34-35)
In other words, to now love neighbor MORE than self, more than the Golden Rule of Leviticus 19:18.
What we can get out of it is a clear conscience and according to Scripture get ' everlasting life ' out of it.
Heaven is promised to some like the people mentioned at Luke 22:28-30; Daniel 7:18; Revelation 2:10.
Eternal life on Earth for the majority of mankind because 'there is going to be' a resurrection...... - Acts of the Apostles 24:15
A happy-and-healthy physical resurrection for most of mankind with the opportunity to live forever on Earth as originally offered to Adam before his downfall.

Happiness.

Happiness and a feeling of physical wellbeing. All good. All being supported by religious belief.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

Love based on principle, is that really love?
I was just using love as an example. More interesting I find is the idea that feelings are a chemical process of the brain.
You love your enemies why? A feeling of moral uprightness. I was going to say moral superiority but thought it might be taken the wrong way.

One thought comes to mind was when Jesus prayed that the soldiers executing him be forgiven because they knew Not what they were (really) doing.
It was nothing to do with a feeling of moral uprightness / superiority but with forgiveness.
Sometimes people are enemies because they really don't know about the marvelous truths found in the Bible:
Truth such as: the Bible's hell is simply mankind's temporary stone-cold grave for the sleeping dead until Resurrection Day.
Jesus and the OT both teach ' sleep ' (Not pain) in death - John 11:11-14; Psalms 115:17; Isaiah 38:18; Ecclesiastes 9:5
' Sleep in peace ' until Resurrection Day meaning: Jesus' coming Millennium-Long Day of governing over Earth for a thousand years.

 

[MonkeyFire]

If you can be happy on command, would you still not believe?

 

[URAVIP2ME]

Happiness.
Happiness and a feeling of physical wellbeing. All good. All being supported by religious belief.

.... and I find self-sacrifice is also supported by religious belief such as:
Disowning self - Matthew 16:24; Mark 8:34; Luke 9:23
That does Not have to include happiness.
After all, Jesus forewarned his genuine followers would be hated by all nations - Matthew 10:22

 

[Nakosis]

.... and I find self-sacrifice is also supported by religious belief such as:
Disowning self - Matthew 16:24; Mark 8:34; Luke 9:23
That does Not have to include happiness.
After all, Jesus forewarned his genuine followers would be hated by all nations - Matthew 10:22

But ultimately loved by God?

 

[osgart]

One acts in certain ways because doing so causes them to feel certain ways.

For example laughing, the physical process releases chemicals which makes you happy. If you force yourself to laugh even if you are feeling sad, you'll start to actually feel better, even happy.

Nothing changed except your actions caused a different set of chemicals to be released.

It goes well beyond feelings. Feelings are not the basis of love. It helps to know people who live the understanding that is love. It's simply not conditioned upon feeling good. I have felt extremely awful feelings because I love some people no matter what happens.

Love can experience many trials and tribulations. It certainly isn't easy!

I'm amazed that people reduce love to feeling good. That's never been my experience.

The best feelings I have had were because of love. Yet that is no foundation for it.

I do realize people can go their whole lives and not know love. A lot of people quit love when the feeling good doesn't happen enough but that isn't the same kind of love.

Love will care for others no matter what happens based on a shared understanding that is taken to heart and not based on feelings.

 

[Nakosis]

It goes well beyond feelings. Feelings are not the basis of love. It helps to know people who live the understanding that is love. It's simply not conditioned upon feeling good. I have felt extremely awful feelings because I love some people no matter what happens.

Love can experience many trials and tribulations. It certainly isn't easy!

I'm amazed that people reduce love to feeling good. That's never been my experience.

The best feelings I have had were because of love. Yet that is no foundation for it.

I do realize people can go their whole lives and not know love. A lot of people quit love when the feeling good doesn't happen enough but that isn't the same kind of love.

Love will care for others no matter what happens based on a shared understanding that is taken to heart and not based on feelings.

Not just happiness. Happiness is dopamine, oxytocin causes feelings of love/calmness/security. Serotonin is for pride/loyalty. Endorphins for joy/euphoria.

Loyalty in times of tribulation, getting a little serotonin kick.

 

[osgart]

Not just happiness. Happiness is dopamine, oxytocin causes feelings of love/calmness/security. Serotonin is for pride/loyalty. Endorphins for joy/euphoria.

Loyalty in times of tribulation, getting a little serotonin kick.

Bahhh! Feelings are important and might have strong associations to meanings. That is besides the point though!

A feelings addiction is real though. But relying on feelings instead of meanings is senseless. That's like relying on effects instead of living the causes of the effects desired.

And even when the effects desired don't happen love still remains when you love somebody.

I'd love to see people who live off of hitting all those different chemical reactions without any meaning whatsoever. See how fulfilled they are!

 

[Rye_P]

Not that spirituality doesn't remain a viable option, but there exists a lot less need for religion these days.

Feel the same, unfortunately they held my mother in hostage.

 

[Evangelicalhumanist]

This idea that I hear on occasion, that God is love.

Well no not really. The experience of "love" is really just a stimulus/response mechanism of the body. The stimulus being the 5 senses and the response being the chemicals released by the brain we crave. One of the main chemicals released being Oxytocin also called the "hugging drug".

Oxytocin gives us a feeling of calm and security. Those seeking God are probably just looking for an extra helping of oxytocin.

Of course the release of chemicals is triggered naturally through physical contact. However, we've also learned how to manually trigger the release of this chemical, through prayer, meditation, religious rituals.

So "spirituality" is really a process of learning how to triggers the chemical response we crave without the external stimulus.

The draw of spirituality is the addiction we have to these chemicals which cause within us the positive feelings we desire.

I suspect long ago we had a limited means of causing these chemical responses we become addicted to. Religion was developed around what was found, largely by trial and error, to cause the brain to release these chemicals.

Today, there exists a lot more ways of triggering these chemical highs. Movies, music, art. Exotic foods, travel to pleasure vacations etc...

Not that spirituality doesn't remain a viable option, but there exists a lot less need for religion these days.

All human (and animal) emotions are little more than the outputs of the algorithms that our many systems process constantly. Our biochemical processors can't give us a printout with detailed instructions of next actions, but they can make us feel strongly -- and those feelings inform what we do next.

And I think that includes love -- both the love that leads to producing (and raising) offspring, as well as the love that binds us together as friends or family. Those emotions tell us what makes us safe, how to find a partner who will provide not only good genes but good support, how to find friends that will not only make us laugh, but protect us when we're vulnerable.

 

[Evangelicalhumanist]

Bahhh! Feelings are important and might have strong associations to meanings. That is besides the point though!

A feelings addiction is real though. But relying on feelings instead of meanings is senseless. That's like relying on effects instead of living the causes of the effects desired.

And even when the effects desired don't happen love still remains when you love somebody.

I'd love to see people who live off of hitting all those different chemical reactions without any meaning whatsoever. See how fulfilled they are!

I think you are very wrong. See my immediately preceeding post. And read Yuval Noah Harari.

 

[Nakosis]

Bahhh! Feelings are important and might have strong associations to meanings. That is besides the point though!

A feelings addiction is real though. But relying on feelings instead of meanings is senseless. That's like relying on effects instead of living the causes of the effects desired.

And even when the effects desired don't happen love still remains when you love somebody.

I'd love to see people who live off of hitting all those different chemical reactions without any meaning whatsoever. See how fulfilled they are!

Ok, however, it's a bit freeing to let go of your need for meaning in life.

The pure sensation of meaningless joy and happiness.

 

[osgart]

All human (and animal) emotions are little more than the outputs of the algorithms that our many systems process constantly. Our biochemical processors can't give us a printout with detailed instructions of next actions, but they can make us feel strongly -- and those feelings inform what we do next.

And I think that includes love -- both the love that leads to producing (and raising) offspring, as well as the love that binds us together as friends or family. Those emotions tell us what makes us safe, how to find a partner who will provide not only good genes but good support, how to find friends that will not only make us laugh, but protect us when we're vulnerable.

Where does meaning fit in with emotions in this assessment?

As for emotions being algorithms, how can that be known like that?

Meanings and emotions go hand and hand. How I interpret reality can strongly affect my emotions.

I find emotions can be quite deceiving in my experience. To me the interpretation drives the emotion.

 

[Vee]

This idea that I hear on occasion, that God is love.

Well no not really. The experience of "love" is really just a stimulus/response mechanism of the body. The stimulus being the 5 senses and the response being the chemicals released by the brain we crave. One of the main chemicals released being Oxytocin also called the "hugging drug".

.

Although I tend to agree with your assessment of chemistry, I think the quote in the Bible is meant in a figurative way. If you start giving a scientific explanation to the role of hormones, you might be right and know what your talking about, but most people are not going to understand and they'll just think you're weird. I tried telling people that the heart is just a pump and feelings are managed in the brain. Guess how people reacted? Yes, I was told I'm weird...

 

[lewisnotmiller]

This idea that I hear on occasion, that God is love.

Well no not really. The experience of "love" is really just a stimulus/response mechanism of the body. The stimulus being the 5 senses and the response being the chemicals released by the brain we crave. One of the main chemicals released being Oxytocin also called the "hugging drug".

Oxytocin gives us a feeling of calm and security. Those seeking God are probably just looking for an extra helping of oxytocin.

Of course the release of chemicals is triggered naturally through physical contact. However, we've also learned how to manually trigger the release of this chemical, through prayer, meditation, religious rituals.

So "spirituality" is really a process of learning how to triggers the chemical response we crave without the external stimulus.

The draw of spirituality is the addiction we have to these chemicals which cause within us the positive feelings we desire.

I suspect long ago we had a limited means of causing these chemical responses we become addicted to. Religion was developed around what was found, largely by trial and error, to cause the brain to release these chemicals.

Today, there exists a lot more ways of triggering these chemical highs. Movies, music, art. Exotic foods, travel to pleasure vacations etc...

Not that spirituality doesn't remain a viable option, but there exists a lot less need for religion these days.

I don't see how this precludes God in any way.

 

[Nakosis]

I don't see how this precludes God in any way.

Wasn't trying to preclude God. Just this idea that God equals love reduced God to a chemical addiction.

 

[Nakosis]

Although I tend to agree with your assessment of chemistry, I think the quote in the Bible is meant in a figurative way. If you start giving a scientific explanation to the role of hormones, you might be right and know what your talking about, but most people are not going to understand and they'll just think you're weird. I tried telling people that the heart is just a pump and feelings are managed in the brain. Guess how people reacted? Yes, I was told I'm weird...

That's ok, I am weird.

 

[Vee]

That's ok, I am weird.

You're allowed to be my friend then. Weird people come up with the coolest ideas