"The Marketplace of Ideas"

[Sunstone]

A traditional American notion has been that free speech allows ideas to compete with each other and the best or truest ideas to win out over the others. But is that what actually happens? Do not the worse ideas also win out, if only for long enough to wreak havoc?

Look at how long Reagan Economics has dominated American politics. Long enough to have contributed to the decimation of the American Middle Class. But if the best or truest ideas always win out, why did Reagan Economics ever get a foothold, let alone become a dominant idea for so long?

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

The best and truest ideas don't win out. It's the ideas with the most money and best PR backing behind them that win out.

 

[nilsz]

A lack of education and understanding of a topic probably cause people to be easily mislead by simplistic narratives. Politics touch a great variety of topics, and voters can not have a firm grasp on all of them.

Reaganomics may seem like a good idea to many industrious people who would like their business to prosper, many of whom undoubtedly had influence on the opinions of others.

 

[Kilgore Trout]

A traditional American notion has been that free speech allows ideas to compete with each other and the best or truest ideas to win out over the others.

The popularity of an idea with the population-at-large is a poor indicator of either the truth or value of that idea. Anybody who doesn't understand this doesn't understand much about humanity.

 

[Thruve]

The popularity of an idea with the population-at-large is a poor indicator of either the truth or value of that idea. Anybody who doesn't understand this doesn't understand much about humanity.

Like a black man becoming president? maybe? perhaps?

 

[Kilgore Trout]

Like a black man becoming president.

So, your contention is that a black man becoming president isn't a good idea?

 

[Thruve]

So, your contention is that a black man becoming president isn't a good idea?

Specifically just Obama, from the start, nope.
I think more people felt glorified over the idea of finally having a black president rather than anything else, or atleast, it surely was a contributing factor.
Look at him now. Look at him now. We never saw his papers. (birth certificate).

 

[Estro Felino]

A traditional American notion has been that free speech allows ideas to compete with each other and the best or truest ideas to win out over the others. But is that what actually happens? Do not the worse ideas also win out, if only for long enough to wreak havoc?

Look at how long Reagan Economics has dominated American politics. Long enough to have contributed to the decimation of the American Middle Class. But if the best or truest ideas always win out, why did Reagan Economics ever get a foothold, let alone become a dominant idea for so long?

I guess we should distinguish simple ideas from economic ideologies.
as for ideas...all right. There can be a marketplace of ideas, as they are fruit of intellectual activity.
as for economics, ideologies can't compete with each other. and in fact, a state is supposed to remain statalist and not capitalism-friendly.

 

[Kilgore Trout]

I think more people felt glorified over the idea of finally having a black president rather than anything else, or atleast, it surely was a contributing factor.

I think a lot more people felt angry about finally having a black president, evidenced by the constant vitriol and harrassment aimed at this president.

 

[Revoltingest]

I think a lot more people felt angry about finally having a black president, evidenced by the constant vitriol and harrassment aimed at this president.

It was even worse towards Dubya.
Was this racism too?

Btw.....

 

[Kilgore Trout]

It was even worse towards Dubya.

I disagree.

 

[Revoltingest]

I disagree.

Well, I find'm both to be terrible.
This means I hate both of their races.

 

[Kilgore Trout]

Well, I find'm both to be terrible.
This means I hate both of their races.

Doesn't surprise me.

 

[Revoltingest]

Doesn't surprise me.

Well, you know me....

 

[icehorse]

Hating on Obama, I'm game... why?

 

[lewisnotmiller]

A traditional American notion has been that free speech allows ideas to compete with each other and the best or truest ideas to win out over the others. But is that what actually happens? Do not the worse ideas also win out, if only for long enough to wreak havoc?

Look at how long Reagan Economics has dominated American politics. Long enough to have contributed to the decimation of the American Middle Class. But if the best or truest ideas always win out, why did Reagan Economics ever get a foothold, let alone become a dominant idea for so long?

This appears to rely on an optimistic link between popularity and best/truest.
This same optimism is a driving force behind democracy, with a similar history of mixed results based on marketing and broad appeal rather than any direct reference to qualification or capability.

I hazard a guess that the first fart app on the iPhone generated far more cash for it's maker than many better ideas, as a simple example.

The sooner the world realises a benevolent dictatorship, with me at it's head, is entirely beneficial, the better. But for now, this is just another example of true and best idea not gaining traction.

*sighs dramatically*

 

[Monk Of Reason]

Specifically just Obama, from the start, nope.
I think more people felt glorified over the idea of finally having a black president rather than anything else, or atleast, it surely was a contributing factor.
Look at him now. Look at him now. We never saw his papers. (birth certificate).

I agree that it was one of the reasons why he won by such a large margin in 2008. Not in 2012 though.

And I hope your kidding when you say we still haven't seen his birth certificate.

 

[icehorse]

Back to the OP, which is far more interesting than knee-jerk Obama bashing...

No doubt that the open market of ideas is a double edged sword, I think the positive outweighs the negative, even if only slightly. The best way to make the balance lean more towards the positive end of the scale is to improve education across the board. Let's make it harder for ne'er do wells to lie.

 

[dust1n]

I agree that it was one of the reasons why he won by such a large margin in 2008. Not in 2012 though.

And I hope your kidding when you say we still haven't seen his birth certificate.

Just in case...

 

[Revoltingest]

There's no good alternative to a "marketplace of ideas". Anything else would mean that someone
would decide upon what's true, & suppress contrary thought. Some people don't like Reganomics,
but what if the authority on truth decided that was "true", & anything inconsistent with it is false?
Or we might have some pinko prez telling us that socialism & enforcing PC thought are "true".
The marketplace isn't so much about generating the truth as it is about being able to speak different
truths, & therefrom steering the nation's course.