The masked truth....

[Unveiled Artist]

It has the laugh icon, your post, and mine. I don't see a post that I actually thought anything and anyone funny about the nature covid, it's effects, etc.

It has to be a fact not an inference. Are there other posts I wrote that backs up what you said?

Shadow. If there is none or you can't find it please ask me what I meant by gestures like laugh icons. Unless there is an explicit post you can find, you'd have to ask for clarification before assuming and bringing this accusation (or synonmn) into the conversation. i.e. "is this what you meant by....."

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Shadow. If there is none or you can't find it please ask me what I meant by gestures like laugh icons. Unless there is an explicit post you can find, you'd have to ask for clarification before assuming and bringing this accusation (or synonmn) into the conversation. i.e. "is this what you meant by....."

Post 360, page 18, I did say people spreading false information are getting people sick, hurt, and shut up. You did rate that as funny.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

Post 360, page 18, I did say people spreading false information are getting people sick, hurt, and shut up. You did rate that as funny.

It's an inference. The best way to know is to ask me.

Also, I ask for other posts because there should be something I said that backs up why you feel I used the icon.

Usually, picking fun or so have you isn't isolated. Icons are a good way to misjudge intent.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

It's an inference. The best way to know is to ask me.

It's not infering. You did rate the post as funny. You dont get to say "**** you" and tell people they infered a negative implication behind it. You say a post is funny, it is perfectly acceptable to interpret that as the one rating it finding the post funny, as in something the rater would laugh at.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

This was to Revoltingest

But doesn't people have the right to have both sides of the story?

Burning anti-maskers to the stake, blocking, deleting, etc info supposedly against masks is more ignorance than basing ones views by both sides of the story.

People against religion may say they believe in freedom is better than indoctrination but then be religious with there mask views, scriptural with their data, and ignore the other side.

It's hypocritical

Laugh if you want, spreading dangerous misinformation that is directly responsible for the serious illness, serious injury, and deaths of people is no laughing matter. You can laugh, but I don't think morgues and crematories being needlessly stuffes beyond capacity is funny. The false covid information--including bs about masks--is responsible for that.

This above is the comment I'm talking about. How on earth did you get that I'm laughing (and other posts that gear towards that?) about covid or ANY illness?

The other side can, to be blunt and frank, shut the **** up when the are getting people sick, hurt, amd killed. They have no right to be a danger to others.

You'd have to ask me why I iconed with a laugh-icon. I don't see how this statement has to do with assuming I was laughing at people who have COVID. The other post wasn't addressed to you, so that's another reason it sounds like an inference not fact.

Are there other posts that support what you're saying -literally- ?

 

[Mr Spinkles]

I read it. Have to reread it. I don't take media as a resource for facts. Closest I get is listening to Trump himself talk. Verbal. Though media can slant what he says for their story.

But the article quotes Trump and his administration. These quotes are verifiable. If you find any of them to have been fabricated, please let me know.

Listening to Trump talk and not reading any other perspectives is a bad idea. He doesn’t fact check himself, so you can’t tell how often he’s lying.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

But the article quotes Trump and his administration. These quotes are verifiable. If you find any of them to have been fabricated, please let me know.

Listening to Trump talk and not reading any other perspectives is a bad idea. He doesn’t fact check himself, so you can’t tell how often he’s lying.

To be truthfully honest, Trump does make strong points for wearing and not wearing masks. For example, wearing a mask when you're not around people won't hurt people or put people at risk. Also, though I mentioned a couple times somewhere on these threads, it does depend on the situation and environment. So, I get that point of view-it's not a "mask or else" issue. I just don't care for his attitude about the issue. The behavior seems more of a child, if I were to softly judge (which I hate doing). If any person would make the comments he made specifically about the mask (so different attitudes and tones), it would still make sense. Though, sometimes people devalue a person's opinion based on how they feel about the person rather than what's actually said.

With the video, thing, though. It get a lot more out of seeing him and hearing him say things on screen than quotes. I know media isn't supposed to fudge the facts but it seems less bias to hear it from him without a third party. Also, in some aspects I don't think he's lying, he's just doesn't have good assertive communication skills.

Then with the confusion, the article mentions about the CDC recommendations and comments regarding that. Wouldn't one think the public would go by the CDC (and WHO) recommendations and not focus on what the president tweet and comment about them?

Since CDC at the time said it was a recommendation or choice, and trump went off of that recommendation, how does that make him a liar despite other people's feelings of whether his actions were right or wrong when expressing his decisions?

 

[Mr Spinkles]

To be truthfully honest, Trump does make strong points for wearing and not wearing masks. For example, wearing a mask when you're not around people won't hurt people or put people at risk. Also, though I mentioned a couple times somewhere on these threads, it does depend on the situation and environment. So, I get that point of view-it's not a "mask or else" issue. I just don't care for his attitude about the issue. The behavior seems more of a child, if I were to softly judge (which I hate doing). If any person would make the comments he made specifically about the mask (so different attitudes and tones), it would still make sense. Though, sometimes people devalue a person's opinion based on how they feel about the person rather than what's actually said.

Respectfully, you are whitewashing. Here are the plain facts: Trump declined to wear a mask numerous times, Including, for example, when he was meeting with 90 year old WWII veterans on May 8. VP Pence declined to wear a mask even when he was at the Mayo Clinic in May, even though masks are required there. He declined to ask, recommend or advise Americans to wear masks for months.

Meanwhile, Trump’s own CDC and US Surgeon General have been asking Americans to wear masks since April.

If you think this fact pattern demonstrates clear and consistent messaging on the part of the Trump administration .., gee, I sure would hate to see what confusing messaging looks like.

With the video, thing, though. It get a lot more out of seeing him and hearing him say things on screen than quotes. I know media isn't supposed to fudge the facts but it seems less bias to hear it from him without a third party.

Charlatans like Trump are better at deceiving people in a live setting. It’s easier to catch inaccuracy and inconsistency when you quote someone on paper, and take time to examine what they actually said (or didn’t say). Harder to do that in a live setting, where they can confuse / distract by rattling off several more lies. For similar reasons, magicians don’t want the audience recording their tricks on camera.

Also, in some aspects I don't think he's lying, he's just doesn't have good assertive communication skills. Then with the confusion, the article mentions about the CDC recommendations and comments regarding that. Wouldn't one think the public would go by the CDC (and WHO) recommendations and not focus on what the president tweet and comment about them?

No. Why would you think that?

Since CDC at the time said it was a recommendation or choice, and trump went off of that recommendation, how does that make him a liar despite other people's feelings of whether his actions were right or wrong when expressing his decisions?

I addressed this above. The CDC message since April was people should wear masks. Trump’s message in May through July was, shrug, it’s a choice and I’m not wearing one. Now his message is, it’s patriotic and look, I’m wearing one. If you think that was clear and consistent messaging ... maybe your standards are too low?

Regarding lying, I just have a question. Would you agree that Trump is a liar, yes or no?

 

[Unveiled Artist]

Respectfully, you are whitewashing. Here are the plain facts: Trump declined to wear a mask numerous times, Including, for example, when he was meeting with 90 year old WWII veterans on May 8. VP Pence declined to wear a mask even when he was at the Mayo Clinic in May, even though masks are required there. He declined to ask, recommend or advise Americans to wear masks for months.

Meanwhile, Trump’s own CDC and US Surgeon General have been asking Americans to wear masks since April.

If you think this fact pattern demonstrates clear and consistent messaging on the part of the Trump administration .., gee, I sure would hate to see what confusing messaging looks like.

Charlatans like Trump are better at deceiving people in a live setting. It’s easier to catch inaccuracy and inconsistency when you quote someone on paper, and take time to examine what they actually said (or didn’t say). Harder to do that in a live setting, where they can confuse / distract by rattling off several more lies. For similar reasons, magicians don’t want the audience recording their tricks on camera.

No. Why would you think that?

I addressed this above. The CDC message since April was people should wear masks. Trump’s message in May through July was, shrug, it’s a choice and I’m not wearing one. Now his message is, it’s patriotic and look, I’m wearing one. If you think that was clear and consistent messaging ... maybe your standards are too low?

Regarding lying, I just have a question. Would you agree that Trump is a liar, yes or no?

Since Trump is human I'd say in some ways he lies and other things he tells the truth. His communication skills aren't good and people had bad impression of him since he took office.

Regardless, the points he made in the article you gave, some, did make sense. Regardless who says these points (Trump, Joe Snow, whomever) still has a point.

When I first heard about CDC hey said it was recommended. Later they said it was mandatory. Our governor said the same thing based on CDC recommendations. Then later he said it's required.

Assuming the more we learn about the virus, the more medical professionals know what to advise the public to do. Not many people have gone through a pandemic so of course they'd be confused.

Another point in your article said Trump and Pence said they didn't wear masks because they had a choice. That makes sense.

What is whitewashing?

Can you give an example related to what I said?

 

[Mr Spinkles]

Since Trump is human I'd say in some ways he lies and other things he tells the truth. His communication skills aren't good and people had bad impression of him since he took office.

Someone who tells the truth sometimes, and lies sometimes, is a liar. Just as a positive number, multiplied by a negative number, is a negative number.

But semantics aside, you admit that “in some ways he lies” and “his communications skills aren’t good”.

Given this, why would you listen to him, and only him, unchallenged? How do you know when he’s lying, and when he’s telling the truth, without checking other sources of information?

Herein illustrates how and why Trump is able to sow all this confusion.

Regardless, the points he made in the article you gave, some, did make sense. Regardless who says these points (Trump, Joe Snow, whomever) still has a point.

I am not sure which specific points you are referring to. If Trump made such fantastic points, then he should have discussed those points with his own CDC and Surgeon General and get on the same page with them - there’s no excuse for them saying different things to the public. Again, we are discussing the messaging. Trump’s message, whether he made good points or not (not, in my opinion) was different from his CDC and Surgeon General. Do you deny this?

When I first heard about CDC hey said it was recommended. Later they said it was mandatory. Our governor said the same thing based on CDC recommendations. Then later he said it's required.

Yes the CDC changed their guidance on masks in April. Trump did not for months. You already admitted he’s bad at communication - I’m agreeing with you.

Assuming the more we learn about the virus, the more medical professionals know what to advise the public to do. Not many people have gone through a pandemic so of course they'd be confused.

All the more reason clear communication is so critical. Trump’s communication on masks has been out of step with the CDC and Surgeon General. Not helpful.

Another point in your article said Trump and Pence said they didn't wear masks because they had a choice. That makes sense.

I don’t think you understand the CDC and Surgeon General’s message. You are listening to Trump’s message and confusing it with theirs. Imagine if the CDC gave a press conference and asked all Americans to wash their hands and cover their coughs. There is no need to emphasize that doing so “is a choice” because the CDC doesn’t go around locking people up for failing to cover their cough, that’s not what they do. They advise the public. Covering your cough is not “a choice” the same way as wearing a red shirt today is a choice ... they are **asking** Americans to work together to fight the pandemic.

Trump, totally misunderstood and misrepresented this. And I can see that he successfully passed that confusion onto you. Recently, however, Trump has finally understood the message (several months later). Trump recently circulated a photo of himself wearing a mask and saying despite some “confusion”, it is patriotic to wear a mask.

Trump finally gets it. There is no federal law requiring a mask but it’s not an “option” like any other choice you make today is an option ... we are asking, please, wear a mask. Please do it. It works. It’s not just an idea someone at the CDC floated.

Do you see the difference? If not, just imagine the CDC asking people to cover their coughs and now imagine Trump giving a presser shrugging and saying “some people say it helps ... I’m not going to do it ... you can if you want though”.

Again: not helpful. If you can’t see this, I’m going to have to rest my case and we can agree to disagree.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

Someone who tells the truth sometimes, and lies sometimes, is a liar. Just as a positive number, multiplied by a negative number, is a negative number.

But semantics aside, you admit that “in some ways he lies” and “his communications skills aren’t good”.

Given this, why would you listen to him, and only him, unchallenged? How do you know when he’s lying, and when he’s telling the truth, without checking other sources of information?

Herein illustrates how and why Trump is able to sow all this confusion.

I am not sure which specific points you are referring to. If Trump made such fantastic points, then he should have discussed those points with his own CDC and Surgeon General and get on the same page with them - there’s no excuse for them saying different things to the public. Again, we are discussing the messaging. Trump’s message, whether he made good points or not (not, in my opinion) was different from his CDC and Surgeon General. Do you deny this?

Yes the CDC changed their guidance on masks in April. Trump did not for months. You already admitted he’s bad at communication - I’m agreeing with you.

All the more reason clear communication is so critical. Trump’s communication on masks has been out of step with the CDC and Surgeon General. Not helpful.

I don’t think you understand the CDC and Surgeon General’s message. You are listening to Trump’s message and confusing it with theirs. Imagine if the CDC gave a press conference and asked all Americans to wash their hands and cover their coughs. There is no need to emphasize that doing so “is a choice” because the CDC doesn’t go around locking people up for failing to cover their cough, that’s not what they do. They advise the public. Covering your cough is not “a choice” the same way as wearing a red shirt today is a choice ... they are **asking** Americans to work together to fight the pandemic.

Trump, totally misunderstood and misrepresented this. And I can see that he successfully passed that confusion onto you. Recently, however, Trump has finally understood the message (several months later). Trump recently circulated a photo of himself wearing a mask and saying despite some “confusion”, it is patriotic to wear a mask.

Trump finally gets it. There is no federal law requiring a mask but it’s not an “option” like any other choice you make today is an option ... we are asking, please, wear a mask. Please do it. It works. It’s not just an idea someone at the CDC floated.

Do you see the difference? If not, just imagine the CDC asking people to cover their coughs and now imagine Trump giving a presser shrugging and saying “some people say it helps ... I’m not going to do it ... you can if you want though”.

Again: not helpful. If you can’t see this, I’m going to have to rest my case and we can agree to disagree.

I don't have feelings about trump as a person. His points make sense in regards to masks. I don't agree with his manner of speaking but who he is unimportant in my point.

Trump isn't and shouldn't be the reason for the public's actions on this subject. They'd benefit from listening to the CDC and drawing their own conclusions based on their situation.

If so be, I'd say the public was confused about both. But I'm sure they put more credence to CDC and not trump regardless if they hate his guys or love him to death.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

Do you agree if you're tested negative for the virus and/or you're not near anyone you can't spread the disease? Therefore masks aren't needed?

Someone who tells the truth sometimes, and lies sometimes, is a liar. Just as a positive number, multiplied by a negative number, is a negative number.

But semantics aside, you admit that “in some ways he lies” and “his communications skills aren’t good”.

Given this, why would you listen to him, and only him, unchallenged? How do you know when he’s lying, and when he’s telling the truth, without checking other sources of information?

Herein illustrates how and why Trump is able to sow all this confusion.

That doesn't excuse my statement that sometimes he lies (though I don't keep track of his lies) and sometimes he tells the truth (and those things actually make sense).

How did you come to the conclusion I follow his politics?

I am not sure which specific points you are referring to. If Trump made such fantastic points, then he should have discussed those points with his own CDC and Surgeon General and get on the same page with them - there’s no excuse for them saying different things to the public. Again, we are discussing the messaging. Trump’s message, whether he made good points or not (not, in my opinion) was different from his CDC and Surgeon General. Do you deny this?

His points makes sense.

It has nothing to do with Trump as a person. One point he mentioned was he was tested negative for the virus. So, he said he couldn't spread it since he is negative. That statement makes sense; so, I agree with that statement.

Trump has nothing to do with it.

Yes the CDC changed their guidance on masks in April. Trump did not for months. You already admitted he’s bad at communication - I’m agreeing with you.

Okay.... Sometimes Trump agrees with the CDC (i.e. at one time it wasn't mandatory to wear masks) and he disagrees with others. So be. Doesn't excuse my point about the masks themselves.

All the more reason clear communication is so critical. Trump’s communication on masks has been out of step with the CDC and Surgeon General. Not helpful.

Shrugs. I'm indifferent. Politics would make me judgmental if I followed people's attitude about it. Religion and politics.

I don’t think you understand the CDC and Surgeon General’s message. You are listening to Trump’s message and confusing it with theirs. Imagine if the CDC gave a press conference and asked all Americans to wash their hands and cover their coughs. There is no need to emphasize that doing so “is a choice” because the CDC doesn’t go around locking people up for failing to cover their cough, that’s not what they do. They advise the public. Covering your cough is not “a choice” the same way as wearing a red shirt today is a choice ... they are **asking** Americans to work together to fight the pandemic.

There were only two points I'm making. At one time CDC said it was a recommendation now it's mandatory. Trump went off the former CDC recommendation so he made the choice (and said so) not to wear the masks. He also mentions he got tested so he can't spread the virus. He also says he practices social distancing. Now that it's mandatory, he still feels he has a choice. So be. I just think his conclusions made sense. Has nothing to do with him lying.

Trump, totally misunderstood and misrepresented this. And I can see that he successfully passed that confusion onto you. Recently, however, Trump has finally understood the message (several months later). Trump recently circulated a photo of himself wearing a mask and saying despite some “confusion”, it is patriotic to wear a mask.

So.... I'm just saying people were confused because of CDC. I'm not sure why they would be confused with Trump since he isn't a professional.

His statements makes sense doesn't mean I support his politics.

Trump finally gets it. There is no federal law requiring a mask but it’s not an “option” like any other choice you make today is an option ... we are asking, please, wear a mask. Please do it. It works. It’s not just an idea someone at the CDC floated.

Well, I don't know why Trump has the type of conversational attitude that he does. Maybe stubborn would be a good word, I don't know.

Do you see the difference? If not, just imagine the CDC asking people to cover their coughs and now imagine Trump giving a presser shrugging and saying “some people say it helps ... I’m not going to do it ... you can if you want though”.

But why would people listen to Trump over the CDC?

The CDC gave different information at different times. I can see why the public would be confused with that, but what does Trump (or should trump) have anything to do with this?

Again: not helpful. If you can’t see this, I’m going to have to rest my case and we can agree to disagree.

You assume that I support trump's politics. I don't have bad and negative feelings over the guy. I just think he isn't appropriate person for presidency. I also feel his points (negative tested people can't spread the virus and social distancing as well prevents risk of virus spread) makes sense.

Him as a person is irrelevant of these points.

 

[Mr Spinkles]

I don't have feelings about trump as a person. His points make sense in regards to masks. I don't agree with his manner of speaking but who he is unimportant in my point.

Trump isn't and shouldn't be the reason for the public's actions on this subject. They'd benefit from listening to the CDC and drawing their own conclusions based on their situation.

If so be, I'd say the public was confused about both. But I'm sure they put more credence to CDC and not trump regardless if they hate his guys or love him to death.

You seem to be bending over backwards to avoid acknowledging the President’s muddled messaging.

Which points about masks did Trump make, specifically, that “make sense”?

If Trump’s points make sense, why shouldn’t the public listen to him?

And if his points make sense, why are they different from the points his own public health experts have been making?

And if Trump’s points made sense in May - June, why has he changed his messaging - why does he now show himself wearing a mask and declare it’s “patriotic” to wear one, despite some previous “confusion” on the topic (his words)?

What “confusion” about wearing masks was Trump referring to, do you think? Who was right - Trump in May, or Trump in August?

And If the public should have listened to the CDC on this matter all along, then why was Trump undermining their message?

So many questions ... so many ways to make excuses for the Leader.

 

[Mr Spinkles]

Do you agree if you're tested negative for the virus and/or you're not near anyone you can't spread the disease? Therefore masks aren't needed?

No, I do not agree that if you’ve tested negative for the virus, you can’t spread the disease. (Let me know if you need me to explain this)

I don’t know what you mean by “not near anyone”. Clearly if you are in your own home or hiking in the woods, it is close to impossible to spread it. But, you can spread the disease even if you are standing 6ft apart from people and for that reason, masks are intended to supplement, not substitute social distancing. Read the US Surgeon General’s advice for yourself, copied below. I just picked one of many statements made by him and the CDC. This happened to be in May, around the time Pres. Trump met with 90 year olds without a mask.

By the way - I also think the President should be held to a higher standard than the general public, because he has enormous power and with that ought to come equally grave responsibility. Especially in a crisis where concerted, public action is critical. He ought to be setting an example and amplifying the CDC message, not undermining it. Instead, when all else fails, his apologists get around the behavior they can’t defend by lowering the standard to an absurd level (your argument literally boils down to - the public shouldn’t listen to the President! Wow.)

That doesn't excuse my statement that sometimes he lies (though I don't keep track of his lies) and sometimes he tells the truth (and those things actually make sense).

You avoided my question. If all you do is listen to Trump unchallenged, how do you know which of his statements are lies?

How did you come to the conclusion I follow his politics?

Huh? I’m confused. I don’t see how this relates to what you quoted. Which part of what I posted were you asking about here?

His points makes sense.

It has nothing to do with Trump as a person. One point he mentioned was he was tested negative for the virus. So, he said he couldn't spread it since he is negative. That statement makes sense; so, I agree with that statement.

Trump has nothing to do with it.

Yes, his points make sense .... if you only listen to Trump. If you listen to the CDC, his points do not make sense. To wit: a negative test does not mean you can’t spread the virus. You are proving my point: Trump has successfully confused you. Here is what the CDC says:

If you test positive or negative for COVID-19 on a viral or an antibody test, you still should take preventive measures to protect yourself and others.

If you test negative for COVID-19 by a viral test, you probably were not infected at the time your sample was collected. However, that does not mean you will not get sick. The test result only means that you did not have COVID-19 at the time of testing. You might test negative if the sample was collected early in your infection and test positive later during your illness. You could also be exposed to COVID-19 after the test and get infected then.​

Source: Coronavirus Disease 2019 (COVID-19)

You keep saying the public shouldn’t listen to Trump they should listen to the CDC ... seems like you’ve been listening to Trump instead of the CDC. You are proving my point.

There were only two points I'm making. At one time CDC said it was a recommendation now it's mandatory.

But, no. The CDC has never made it mandatory at the federal level. They don’t have the power to arrest or fine anyone for not wearing masks.

Trump went off the former CDC recommendation so he made the choice (and said so) not to wear the masks.

Okay. He could also choose not to cover his cough or wash his hands. That’s also not mandatory. Again you’re confusing Trump’s warped message with the actual CDC message. The point is, it is not a responsible choice and it is a choice that undermines the CDC’s guidance to the public. The CDC’s message was not “hey, wear a mask if you want - just like before the pandemic! Some say it helps, others say it doesn’t. It’s up to you! We here at the CDC aren’t wearing them though because we get tested!” Their message was “please wear a mask to protect others” in public even if you are tested, even you do socially distance. Not wearing one in the presence of 90 year olds (!) was indeed Trump’s choice - a horribly irresponsible one. We should hold him accountable Instead of making lame excuses and insinuating it’s the public’s fault if they listen to the President. Pence actually went to a hospital where masks *are* mandatory, and still declined to wear one! You are right about one thing: it was their choice, no one prevented them from wearing masks. And they were atrocious choices when more than 150,000 Americans are dead. If you can’t see this ... you can’t see.

So.... I'm just saying people were confused because of CDC. I'm not sure why they would be confused with Trump since he isn't a professional.

But ... you have literally shown that you are confused because you listened to Trump, not the CDC.

But why would people listen to Trump over the CDC?

You dodged my question. But I’ll answer yours: I don’t know, why don’t you tell us. Why have you been listening to Trump over the CDC?

You assume that I support trump's politics. I don't have bad and negative feelings over the guy. I just think he isn't appropriate person for presidency.

We agree on this one (understatement of 2020 by the way)

 

[Unveiled Artist]

You seem to be bending over backwards to avoid acknowledging the President’s muddled messaging.

Which points about masks did Trump make, specifically, that “make sense”?

If Trump’s points make sense, why shouldn’t the public listen to him?

And if his points make sense, why are they different from the points his own public health experts have been making?

And if Trump’s points made sense in May - June, why has he changed his messaging - why does he now show himself wearing a mask and declare it’s “patriotic” to wear one, despite some previous “confusion” on the topic (his words)?

What “confusion” about wearing masks was Trump referring to, do you think? Who was right - Trump in May, or Trump in August?

And If the public should have listened to the CDC on this matter all along, then why was Trump undermining their message?

So many questions ... so many ways to make excuses for the Leader.

The CDC said at one time masks where recommended they were choices
Trump said because of that he had a choice; he chose not to use masks
That makes sense given that was at the time CDCs recommendations
His presidency and who he is is irrelevant

Later on the CDC said (if it said) it was required
Trump still says he has a choice
I agree everyone has a choice
Him being president is irrelevant to this statement

I don't know about other lies people say he made. I'm indifferent to them.

It doesn't matter if it's Trump or Sally Sue, if they both said the same thing above, it just makes sense.

With the confusion, like I said: why would people look at trump before they look at the CDC?

Many people where confused with what the CDC said. Which is normal in a situation like this. People get confused, fearful, judgmental, indifferent, so have you.

It has nothing (I hope) to do with Trump

 

[Unveiled Artist]

I don't read bold. It's offensive due to the tone of this conversation and it hurts my eyes. Please don't bold. I can read it without the emphasis.

No, I do not agree that if you’ve tested negative for the virus, you can’t spread the disease. (Let me know if you need me to explain this)

I don’t know what you mean by “not near anyone”. Clearly if you are in your own home or hiking in the woods, it is close to impossible to spread it. But, you can spread the disease even if you are standing 6ft apart from people and for that reason, masks are intended to supplement, not substitute social distancing. Read the US Surgeon General’s advice for yourself, copied below. I just picked one of many statements made by him and the CDC. This happened to be in May, around the time Pres. Trump met with 90 year olds without a mask.

Why (and what doctor) would give people a clean bill of health of this virus (or any virus for that matter) and still say it can be spread by that person standing less than 6 feet from them?

Trump did mention he wasn't near people so that's another why he doesn't wear a mask. Trump aside, if you're in the woods with no one near you, you can't spread it. So, the two statements makes sense.

By the way - I also think the President should be held to a higher standard than the general public, because he has enormous power and with that ought to come equally grave responsibility. Especially in a crisis where concerted, public action is critical. He ought to be setting an example and amplifying the CDC message, not undermining it. Instead, when all else fails, his apologists get around the behavior they can’t defend by lowering the standard to an absurd level (your argument literally boils down to - the public shouldn’t listen to the President! Wow.)

I'm indifferent to it. I don't share your attitude towards him. That's about it.

You avoided my question. If all you do is listen to Trump unchallenged, how do you know which of his statements are lies?

I never said I listened to Trump. I said my agreeing with his statements in your article doesn't mean I support his politics. Or to anyone's politics for that matter.

Unless being tested negative and not being around people to spread the disease are lies, I'm not sure what else you're referring to. I'm just going by the article you gave me.

Huh? I’m confused. I don’t see how this relates to what you quoted. Which part of what I posted were you asking about here?

You keep mentioning I listen to trump. Meaning (my assumption) I follow his politics (what you call all lies).

How does agreeing with trump with not being near people and people without the virus can't spread the virus supporting his politics?

Yes, his points make sense .... if you only listen to Trump. If you listen to the CDC, his points do not make sense. To wit: a negative test does not mean you can’t spread the virus. You are proving my point: Trump has successfully confused you. Here is what the CDC says:

He was just listening to CDC at the time. Like I said, now he is still stubborn and doesn't wear masks. I never gave an opinion about his current decision just his past decision.

But educate me. If you don't have any virus, how do you spread it?

You keep saying the public shouldn’t listen to Trump they should listen to the CDC ... seems like you’ve been listening to Trump instead of the CDC. You are proving my point.

I said why would people listen to trump over the CDC. Seems like people were confused with CDC. No one likes trump so why would they listen to him?

But, no. The CDC has never made it mandatory at the federal level. They don’t have the power to arrest or fine anyone for not wearing masks.

Yes. But people take it as mandatory (legality aside) and belittle people who make choices not to wear them.

Okay. He could also choose not to cover his cough or wash his hands. That’s also not mandatory. Again you’re confusing Trump’s warped message with the actual CDC message. The point is, it is not a responsible choice and it is a choice that undermines the CDC’s guidance to the public. The CDC’s message was not “hey, wear a mask if you want - just like before the pandemic! Some say it helps, others say it doesn’t. It’s up to you! We here at the CDC aren’t wearing them though because we get tested!” Their message was “please wear a mask to protect others” in public even if you are tested, even you do socially distance. Not wearing one in the presence of 90 year olds (!) was indeed Trump’s choice - a horribly irresponsible one. We should hold him accountable Instead of making lame excuses and insinuating it’s the public’s fault if they listen to the President. Pence actually went to a hospital where masks *are* mandatory, and still declined to wear one! You are right about one thing: it was their choice, no one prevented them from wearing masks. And they were atrocious choices when more than 150,000 Americans are dead. If you can’t see this ... you can’t see.

I didn't read in your article that he chose not to wash his hands.

That.

I disagree with.

That's his stubbornness. Now that we know more about the virus, and he still makes a choice (which is his right), it does make a high risk in general for disease spread. His argument was he was tested negative so why use the mask.

If Sally Sue was tested negative, how can she spread the disease to others?

But ... you have literally shown that you are confused because you listened to Trump, not the CDC.

No. I don't watch Trump politics unless it has to do with laws and things changing here that our governor may pronounce as law here in Virginia.

Everything else about him, I don't care for his demeanor and communication skills. It annoys me so I don't watch him.

You dodged my question. But I’ll answer yours: I don’t know, why don’t you tell us. Why have you been listening to Trump over the CDC?

I said his statements make sense (in your article): people tested negative can't spread the virus. Not being near people (say in the woods) can't spread the virus. This was before. I don't know if CDC says now it's required. If not, then it makes sense Sally Sue, Trump, Obama, and Bob have choices to wear masks

Who they are is irrelevant.

How do I "listen" to someone I don't follow?

We agree on this one (understatement of 2020 by the way)

Okay. How do you agree with this then say I listen to trump about his lies at the same time?

Usually when you support someone, you don't say he seems stubborn and shouldn't be in presidency, true?

Also, I don't follow tweets. Out of all things people get information from, they follow tweets. Now wonder people are confused and judgmental. Social Media.

 

[Mr Spinkles]

I don't read bold. It's offensive due to the tone of this conversation and it hurts my eyes. Please don't bold. I can read it without the emphasis.



Why (and what doctor) would give people a clean bill of health of this virus (or any virus for that matter) and still say it can be spread by that person standing less than 6 feet from them?

Trump did mention he wasn't near people so that's another why he doesn't wear a mask. Trump aside, if you're in the woods with no one near you, you can't spread it. So, the two statements makes sense.



I'm indifferent to it. I don't share your attitude towards him. That's about it.



I never said I listened to Trump. I said my agreeing with his statements in your article doesn't mean I support his politics. Or to anyone's politics for that matter.

Unless being tested negative and not being around people to spread the disease are lies, I'm not sure what else you're referring to. I'm just going by the article you gave me.



You keep mentioning I listen to trump. Meaning (my assumption) I follow his politics (what you call all lies).

How does agreeing with trump with not being near people and people without the virus can't spread the virus supporting his politics?



He was just listening to CDC at the time. Like I said, now he is still stubborn and doesn't wear masks. I never gave an opinion about his current decision just his past decision.

But educate me. If you don't have any virus, how do you spread it?



I said why would people listen to trump over the CDC. Seems like people were confused with CDC. No one likes trump so why would they listen to him?



Yes. But people take it as mandatory (legality aside) and belittle people who make choices not to wear them.



I didn't read in your article that he chose not to wash his hands.

That.

I disagree with.

That's his stubbornness. Now that we know more about the virus, and he still makes a choice (which is his right), it does make a high risk in general for disease spread. His argument was he was tested negative so why use the mask.

If Sally Sue was tested negative, how can she spread the disease to others?



No. I don't watch Trump politics unless it has to do with laws and things changing here that our governor may pronounce as law here in Virginia.

Everything else about him, I don't care for his demeanor and communication skills. It annoys me so I don't watch him.



I said his statements make sense (in your article): people tested negative can't spread the virus. Not being near people (say in the woods) can't spread the virus. This was before. I don't know if CDC says now it's required. If not, then it makes sense Sally Sue, Trump, Obama, and Bob have choices to wear masks

Who they are is irrelevant.

How do I "listen" to someone I don't follow?



Okay. How do you agree with this then say I listen to trump about his lies at the same time?

Usually when you support someone, you don't say he seems stubborn and shouldn't be in presidency, true?

Also, I don't follow tweets. Out of all things people get information from, they follow tweets. Now wonder people are confused and judgmental. Social Media.

It looks like you did not read the CDC recommendations I posted (because it was bold?) Here it is again, not bolded:

If you test positive or negative for COVID-19 on a viral or an antibody test, you still should take preventive measures to protect yourself and others.

If you test negative for COVID-19 by a viral test, you probably were not infected at the time your sample was collected. However, that does not mean you will not get sick. The test result only means that you did not have COVID-19 at the time of testing. You might test negative if the sample was collected early in your infection and test positive later during your illness. You could also be exposed to COVID-19 after the test and get infected then.

Source: Coronavirus Disease 2019 (COVID-19)

This explodes your argument because you (a) think Trump “makes sense” when he undermines this guidance and yet (b) think people should listen to the CDC, not Trump. Perhaps you should follow your own advice here?

I’ve been saying Trump is sowing confusion about what the public should be doing and you have proved my point ... you listened to Trump and he confused you about what a negative COVID test means.

I’m going to rest my case and let you have the last word. I’ve got nothing further to add I think we’ve both said our piece, thank you.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

It looks like you did not read the CDC recommendations I posted (because it was bold?) Here it is again, not bolded:

If you test positive or negative for COVID-19 on a viral or an antibody test, you still should take preventive measures to protect yourself and others.

If you test negative for COVID-19 by a viral test, you probably were not infected at the time your sample was collected. However, that does not mean you will not get sick. The test result only means that you did not have COVID-19 at the time of testing. You might test negative if the sample was collected early in your infection and test positive later during your illness. You could also be exposed to COVID-19 after the test and get infected then.

Source: Coronavirus Disease 2019 (COVID-19)

This explodes your argument because you (a) think Trump “makes sense” when he undermines this guidance and yet (b) think people should listen to the CDC, not Trump. Perhaps you should follow your own advice here?

I’ve been saying Trump is sowing confusion about what the public should be doing and you have proved my point ... you listened to Trump and he confused you about what a negative COVID test means.

I’m going to rest my case and let you have the last word. I’ve got nothing further to add I think we’ve both said our piece, thank you.

I said Trump makes sense that distance is better and being negative doesn't spread germs.

I don't have issues with who he is, conspiracies, tweets, rumor, and accusations.

Just the facts that what he (John, Sara, whoever) says makes sense.

I didn't get the notification. I don't read black bold so it's best to write it normal or maybe " marks. Also, I've read all CDC resources that I remember looking up (makes sense during a pandemic, no?)

...

 

[Unveiled Artist]

This explodes your argument because you (a) think Trump “makes sense” when he undermines this guidance and yet (b) think people should listen to the CDC, not Trump. Perhaps you should follow your own advice here?

I can care less if he undermines or anything like that. You, and a couple other people here are quoting me if associating sense with the guy means I like him or agree with his intent or something.

How to say it. His intent, what he undermines, whether he dislike or likes something, I don't care. Just those particular points made sense and it has nothing to do with who said it just what was said.

Understand?

 

[Mr Spinkles]

I can care less if he undermines or anything like that. You, and a couple other people here are quoting me if associating sense with the guy means I like him or agree with his intent or something.

How to say it. His intent, what he undermines, whether he dislike or likes something, I don't care. Just those particular points made sense and it has nothing to do with who said it just what was said.

Understand?

Not really, no. I understand the part about not caring who said it. I understand that you are not saying you necessarily like him, or agree with his intent. But the rest of it, I do not understand.

Do you still think those particular points make sense, when I just quoted from the CDC why they do not, in fact, make sense?

Does the CDC guidance not make sense, in your view?

Why would you not care "what he undermines" when the thing he is undermining is CDC public health guidance during a pandemic? That's an odd thing to "not care" about. Especially when you were the one saying people ought to listen to the CDC guidance, not the President.

Again, here is what you said:

One point he mentioned was he was tested negative for the virus. So, he said he couldn't spread it since he is negative. That statement makes sense; so, I agree with that statement.

But here is what the CDC says. Please read this carefully:

If you test positive or negative for COVID-19 on a viral or an antibody test, you still should take preventive measures to protect yourself and others.

...

Everyone should ... Cover your mouth and nose with a mask when around others

• You could spread COVID-19 to others even if you do not feel sick.
• The mask is meant to protect other people in case you are infected.
• Everyone should wear a mask in public settings and when around people who don’t live in your household, especially when other social distancing measures are difficult to maintain.

...

If you test negative for COVID-19 by a viral test, you probably were not infected at the time your sample was collected. However, that does not mean you will not get sick. The test result only means that you did not have COVID-19 at the time of testing. You might test negative if the sample was collected early in your infection and test positive later during your illness. You could also be exposed to COVID-19 after the test and get infected then.

So, according to the CDC, even though Trump said he couldn't spread it since he tested negative, and even though that "made sense" to you, that is not actually true. He still should have worn a mask when around other people - especially when he was around people in high risk groups (like 90 year old WWII veterans).

Right?