The Me Generation

[Wildswanderer]

Nothing irritates me more than people who are so self absorbed and oblivious to the outside world, they expect others to use special words to other people about them. I'm talking about pronoun fixation, by the way. The second thing which irritates me is how people have their various disorders listed, as if to showcase them. First, I don't know why they think people care if they are autistic, ADHD, or whatever else, including their status as indigenous or black.

Someone please explain all this to me? Am I missing something here because when I was growing up, this wasn't a thing. What was a thing was people introducing themselves as a gay man or a lesbian. I found that irritating as well, since I didn't see reason to know the sexual preferences of strangers and co-workers.

Do people actually do this? "Hello, I'm wildswanderer and I like to rip the skins off of animals and tan their little hides."
Okay I can sort of see the appeal. Lol.

 

[The Hammer]

Make laws to force me to call you something I feel wrong about calling you?

So..... Let me get this straight. You FEEL it's wrong, therefore you dislike it...

 

[The Hammer]

To add a perspective...

... I work at a university. The whole pronoun thing has really started taking off in the university culture over the past couple of years.

It's awkward.

But why does it feel awkward to me? Is it simply because it is new and unfamiliar? Because it's not how things were done before? Is it because you're uncomfortable with the outing of aspects of human diversity you might have not acknowledged the existence of before? Is it because you have some of your own unresolved identity issues that things brings to the surface? Something else entirely?

That's a good way to approach this - monitor your reaction then ask yourself where that reaction is coming from. You might learn something about yourself and others in the process.

Hello!

Welcome back?

 

[Reyn]

Personally insisting that you refuse to call someone what they want to be called (no laws involved) is reason for those people to "declare war on you and everyone like you"

I’m not here to validate them, so if they want war, that’s fine.

 

[Reyn]

On the part of those refusing to call people what fits for them and even passing laws against it.

No, it’s totalitarian to force others to validate your identity. Do it yourself.

 

[JDMS]

I’m not here to validate them, so if they want war, that’s fine.

Sounds lonely & exhausting. You must have a lot of free time on your hands

 

[Reyn]

Sounds lonely & exhausting. You must have a lot of free time on your hands

How is that lonely or exhausting? I simply don’t validate other people’s delusions.

 

[JustGeorge]

How is that lonely or exhausting? I simply don’t validate other people’s delusions.

It takes a lot of energy to worry about other people's worldviews. I would find it exhausting. Actually, I've been in the 'anti' place(perhaps not on this issue, but others) before, and it was. It was extremely exhausting.

May I ask why it bothers you so much? You're free to feel any way you want on this topic, but why does it nag at you so?

 

[Reyn]

It takes a lot of energy to worry about other people's worldviews. I would find it exhausting. Actually, I've been in the 'anti' place(perhaps not on this issue, but others) before, and it was. It was extremely exhausting.

May I ask why it bothers you so much? You're free to feel any way you want on this topic, but why does it nag at you so?

I don’t find it exhausting. Why does it bother me to be forced to use certain pronouns for people? It’s totalitarian and I don’t like totalitarianism. I don’t like compelled speech and I’m completely against normalization of all this trans stuff. It is destroying an entire generation. This being said, I’m bored so I’m debating. I don’t spend every waking moment thinking about this stuff.

 

[JustGeorge]

I don’t find it exhausting. Why does it bother me to be forced to use certain pronouns for people? It’s totalitarian and I don’t like totalitarianism. I don’t like compelled speech and I’m completely against normalization of all this trans stuff. It is destroying an entire generation. This being said, I’m bored so I’m debating. I don’t spend every waking moment thinking about this stuff.

Are you in a situation where you're actually forced? I can't think of many situations where a person is actually forced to use someone's preferred pronouns. If you can think of any, I'm curious to hear them.

Refusing to use a person's preferred pronoun might have consequences, though. Is that what you're objecting to, is the consequences? All speech has consequences. You just have to weigh what's worth it, and what's not.

Every generation has something folks thinks are going to 'destroy' it. I guess its all in the eye of the beholder. What you say is destroying, another might say is enriching.

Its fair enough to debate when you're bored. I just see you pick this topic frequently, so I wondered why it seems to come to mind so often. Are you in a situation where you're confronted with this a lot?

 

[Reyn]

Are you in a situation where you're actually forced? I can't think of many situations where a person is actually forced to use someone's preferred pronouns. If you can think of any, I'm curious to hear them.

Refusing to use a person's preferred pronoun might have consequences, though. Is that what you're objecting to, is the consequences? All speech has consequences. You just have to weigh what's worth it, and what's not.

Every generation has something folks thinks are going to 'destroy' it. I guess its all in the eye of the beholder. What you say is destroying, another might say is enriching.

Its fair enough to debate when you're bored. I just see you pick this topic frequently, so I wondered why it seems to come to mind so often. Are you in a situation where you're confronted with this a lot?

Yeah, it’s actually illegal not to where I live.

 

[JustGeorge]

Yeah, it’s actually illegal not to where I live.

Really! Can you share some articles of this change being brought about?

I'm not saying I don't believe you; I'm genuinely curious. I hadn't heard of anything like that happening yet.

 

[Quintessence]

Are you in a situation where you're actually forced? I can't think of many situations where a person is actually forced to use someone's preferred pronouns. If you can think of any, I'm curious to hear them.

While perhaps "forced" is a strong word, here's an example situation. As I mentioned, the culture at my university has been starting to make a bigger deal of the pronoun thing. When it becomes normalized to introduce oneself followed by pronouns, those cultural norms pressure others to conform to them. Conformity pressure is huge for humans - a very powerful force - so more often than not folks go along with whatever is the norm.

 

[exchemist]

I’m an example of someone who overcame gender dysphoria and a host of other things. I’ve done the motivation thing. People don’t listen, they just make excuses.

Now that we know this about you, we can understand why you seem so angry and cut you some slack.

QED.

 

[lewisnotmiller]

We have several here, in fact, not to mention a very patient and resilient mother of at least one autistic child.

Awwwww....
I'm not actually a mother, and my children aren't autistic. Still, it's very nice of you to notice my patience and resilience, kind sir.

 

[lewisnotmiller]

We should move to Scottish/Australian pronouns for all. Just the 'C' word for every situation. Radical pronoun equality.

Mate...I knew someone would eventually recognise our linguistic apathy as secret genius!!

 

[lewisnotmiller]

To add a perspective...

... I work at a university. The whole pronoun thing has really started taking off in the university culture over the past couple of years.

It's awkward.

But why does it feel awkward to me? Is it simply because it is new and unfamiliar? Because it's not how things were done before? Is it because you're uncomfortable with the outing of aspects of human diversity you might have not acknowledged the existence of before? Is it because you have some of your own unresolved identity issues that things brings to the surface? Something else entirely?

That's a good way to approach this - monitor your reaction then ask yourself where that reaction is coming from. You might learn something about yourself and others in the process.

That's true. But it's not the only reason it's awkward I think. I've got a friend in education (a lot, actually, leftover from my teaching days) tying herself in knots over whether she might call someone the wrong thing and offend them.

In my experience, people appreciate consideration and effort more than 'correct' labelling, but human nature being what it is, I'm sure there are some buttholes around who see an opportunity to be victims.

We've also had one or two people at my work take the pronoun thing to strange new places where I get to learn a little more than I'd like about their sexual preferences.

In the vast majority of cases, though, I agree with you.

 

[sayak83]

Nothing irritates me more than people who are so self absorbed and oblivious to the outside world, they expect others to use special words to other people about them. I'm talking about pronoun fixation, by the way. The second thing which irritates me is how people have their various disorders listed, as if to showcase them. First, I don't know why they think people care if they are autistic, ADHD, or whatever else, including their status as indigenous or black.

Someone please explain all this to me? Am I missing something here because when I was growing up, this wasn't a thing. What was a thing was people introducing themselves as a gay man or a lesbian. I found that irritating as well, since I didn't see reason to know the sexual preferences of strangers and co-workers.

Yes. Normal is working great...
Physical victimization, gender identity and suicide risk among transgender men and women - ScienceDirect
Thirty-seven percent of trans men and women experienced at least one physical attack since the age of 13. On average, individuals experienced 3.97 (SD = 2.86) physical attacks; among these about half were attributed to one's gender identity or expression (mean = 2.08, SD = 1.96). In the multivariate multinomial regression, compared to those with no risk, being physically attacked increased the odds of both attempting and contemplating suicide regardless of gender attribution.

 

[exchemist]

Awwwww....
I'm not actually a mother, and my children aren't autistic. Still, it's very nice of you to notice my patience and resilience, kind sir.

I was thinking of JustGeorge.

 

[lewisnotmiller]

I was thinking of JustGeorge.

Ha! I know, mate. Just testing out my sense of humour. I'll chalk that one up as a fail...lol