The mere fact that no god is observed communicating directly to everyone means that...

[Trailblazer]

I'd choose B. God wants to communicate directly with everyone but I'm not sure why he does not always do what he wants to do. How does "anyone" know god regardless the time period, wisdom, place, and language?

I choose A because I believe that God always does what He wants to do, so if God wanted to communicate directly to everyone He would.

 

[Trailblazer]

Revelation 21 tells us what the future holds.
"Then I saw a new heaven and a new earth,a for the first heaven and earth had passed away, and the sea was no more. I saw the holy city, the new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. And I heard a loud voice from the throne saying:
“Behold, the dwelling place of God is with man, and He will dwell with them.
They will be His people, and God Himself will be with them as their God. He will wipe away every tear from their eyes,
and there will be no more death or mourning or crying or pain,
for the former things have passed away.” And the One seated on the throne said, “Behold, I make all things new.” Then He said, “Write this down, for these words are faithful and true.”

For those who will be there when this happens, there will be no more pain or suffering. God is going to make all things new.

I believe that there be a new earth but I do not believe that God is going to make all things new. I believe humans will build the new earth, according to the blueprint instructions God provided. On the new earth there will be less suffering. but there will always be some suffering on earth since that is the inherent nature of a material world. Suffering will only end when we go to heaven.

 

[YoursTrue]

I believe that there be a new earth but I do not believe that God is going to make all things new. I believe humans will build the new earth, according to the blueprint instructions God provided. On the new earth there will be less suffering. but there will always be some suffering on earth since that is the inherent nature of a material world. Suffering will only end when we go to heaven.

Adam and Eve were not said to suffer at all in any way until...

 

[dfnj]

Please select what you consider the most likely reason:

a) God has chosen not to communicate directly to everyone.
b) God wants to communicate directly to everyone but God does not always do what He wants to do.

c) God is communicating to us all the time but people refuse or are not read to listen.

 

[YoursTrue]

I believe that there be a new earth but I do not believe that God is going to make all things new. I believe humans will build the new earth, according to the blueprint instructions God provided. On the new earth there will be less suffering. but there will always be some suffering on earth since that is the inherent nature of a material world. Suffering will only end when we go to heaven.

I thought also about the word 'new' there. So it has to be taken in context. The former earth, that which we experience now, will be done away with. Gone. Righteousness will be on the earth, completely, any type of badness will be gone. The heavens also in context will be changed.

 

[Trailblazer]

Adam and Eve were not said to suffer at all in any way until...

Adam and Eve were fictitious characters in a story.....
There was no Garden of Eden...
Imo.

 

[Trailblazer]

I thought also about the word 'new' there. So it has to be taken in context. The former earth, that which we experience now, will be done away with. Gone. Righteousness will be on the earth, completely, any type of badness will be gone. The heavens also in context will be changed.

Do you believe that planet earth will be done away with?

I believe that in the distant future righteousness will predominate on the earth, and a new race of men will emerge.

“With the establishment of the Most Great Peace and the spiritualization of the peoples of the world, man will become a noble being adorned with divine virtues and perfections. This is one of the fruits of the Revelation of Bahá’u’lláh, promised by Him. The nobility of man and his spiritual development will lead him in the future to such a position that no individual could enjoy eating his food or resting at home while knowing that there was one person somewhere in the world without food or shelter. It is Bahá’u’lláh’s mission to create such a new race of men.” (Adib Taherzadeh, The Revelation of Bahá’u’lláh v 3, p. 126)

New Race of Men | Bahá’í Quotes

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

Do you believe that planet earth will be done away with?

I believe that in the distant future righteousness will predominate on the earth, and a new race of men will emerge.

“With the establishment of the Most Great Peace and the spiritualization of the peoples of the world, man will become a noble being adorned with divine virtues and perfections. This is one of the fruits of the Revelation of Bahá’u’lláh, promised by Him. The nobility of man and his spiritual development will lead him in the future to such a position that no individual could enjoy eating his food or resting at home while knowing that there was one person somewhere in the world without food or shelter. It is Bahá’u’lláh’s mission to create such a new race of men.” (Adib Taherzadeh, The Revelation of Bahá’u’lláh v 3, p. 126)

New Race of Men | Bahá’í Quotes

That is the most noble idea religion has to offer. And I believe in that idea.
Now how we get from not being there to there in the future is another discussion.

Regards and love
Mikkel

 

[Trailblazer]

That is the most noble idea religion has to offer. And I believe in that idea.
Now how we get from not being there to there in the future is another discussion.

Regards and love
Mikkel

Obviously it will not happen overnight and there will have to be more people who share the same ideals, but I firmly believe it will happen. Even though I won't see it in my lifetime at least I know that future generations will have a better life.

“God’s purpose is none other than to usher in, in ways He alone can bring about, and the full significance of which He alone can fathom, the Great, the Golden Age of a long-divided, a long-afflicted humanity. Its present state, indeed even its immediate future, is dark, distressingly dark. Its distant future, however, is radiant, gloriously radiant—so radiant that no eye can visualize it......”
The Promised Day is Come, p. 116

God’s Purpose

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

Obviously it will not happen overnight and there will have to be more people who share the same ideals, but I firmly believe it will happen. Even though I won't see it in my lifetime at least I know that future generations will have a better life.

“God’s purpose is none other than to usher in, in ways He alone can bring about, and the full significance of which He alone can fathom, the Great, the Golden Age of a long-divided, a long-afflicted humanity. Its present state, indeed even its immediate future, is dark, distressingly dark. Its distant future, however, is radiant, gloriously radiant—so radiant that no eye can visualize it......”
The Promised Day is Come, p. 116

God’s Purpose

To have faith is to accept that is dark now, yet don't give up on that there will be light. You go, my fellow human. You know this and I know this. We are not alone even if we are few.

Regards and love
Mikkel

 

[Trailblazer]

You know this and I know this. We are not alone even if we are few.

Regards and love
Mikkel

Thanks, you just gave me hope that more will come along.

Regards and love
Trailblazer

 

[Unveiled Artist]

I choose A because I believe that God always does what He wants to do, so if God wanted to communicate directly to everyone He would.

To be honest, I'd feel god is already communicating directly. Maybe people are looking for a communication method they are familiar with rather one from god himself.

People-atheists and some believers alike-may make god what they are told he is or what they want him to be. Then have an opinion for or against god based on their own understanding.

Why make a personal god so "far way"? Unless you're a deist I'm not sure how god can be personal but chooses not to communicate.

Maybe he is just you are looking for an external party to experience and communicate an internal god?

I'm taking out time to understand your view and share mine.

 

[CG Didymus]

c) God is communicating to us all the time but people refuse or are not read to listen.

Some spiritual teachers I heard have said things like we need to get spiritual pure enough to get in tune with God so we can hear and understand. Then there are the Fundie Christians. They say believe on Jesus and you become pure and get filled with the Holy Spirit, which they believe is part of God. So they do have God within them and are communicating with him.

 

[Trailblazer]

To be honest, I'd feel god is already communicating directly. Maybe people are looking for a communication method they are familiar with rather one from god himself.

To be clear, I believe that God can communicate to our hearts and minds, but I do not believe that God communicates discernible messages to ordinary human beings as He does to His Messengers.

Why make a personal god so "far way"? Unless you're a deist I'm not sure how god can be personal but chooses not to communicate.

I believe that God is exalted above anything that can ever be recounted or perceived by humans, and God has no partners, choosing to remain one and alone... As Baha'u'llah wrote...

“He is, and hath from everlasting been, one and alone, without peer or equal, eternal in the past, eternal in the future, detached from all things, ever-abiding, unchangeable, and self-subsisting. He hath assigned no associate unto Himself in His Kingdom, no counsellor to counsel Him, none to compare unto Him, none to rival His glory.” Gleanings, p. 192

However God is not near or far in any physical sens because God transcends physicality... Rather, God is as near or far as we allow Him to be in our hearts, since the human heart is where God is centered... This is a difficult and extensive subject.

“It should be remembered in this connection that the one true God is in Himself exalted beyond and above proximity and remoteness. His reality transcendeth such limitations. His relationship to His creatures knoweth no degrees. That some are near and others are far is to be ascribed to the manifestations themselves.....

That the heart is the throne, in which the Revelation of God the All-Merciful is centered, is attested by the holy utterances which We have formerly revealed.” Gleanings, p. 185

Imo, there is no reason why a personal God would have to communicate directly to humans. Personal God in the Baha'i faith does not imply a communicating God, as we believe that God communicates messages only through His Messengers.

God in the Bahá'í Faith

 

[Unveiled Artist]

To be clear, I believe that God can communicate to our hearts and minds, but I do not believe that God communicates discernible messages to ordinary human beings as He does to His Messengers.

I would see it as if one believes in god, his messages would be very well understood from him directly. In the context god would have more than one language. If we expect god to speak in one language that only one person can translate, it makes believing in god more complicated. More conflict that way. If we felt we can talk to god directly (and vis versa) people would understand god more for their own sake not for another. Assuming the people that agree with me don't desire messengers, prophets, or manifestations, etc.

I'd say a lot of believers put themselves in a box. Why do you need to feel so restricted in understanding god?

I understand bahauallah, since not everyone knows his culture, language, time period, and expertise in the subject but as a human I'm sure his relationship with god is no different than another human. Just you guys speak different languages.

I believe that God is exalted above anything that can ever be recounted or perceived by humans, and God has no partners, choosing to remain one and alone... As Baha'u'llah wrote...

What are your thoughts on seeing god equal to yourself so you can have a one to one connection with him just as bahaullah? (Piggy backing on my comment above)

“He is, and hath from everlasting been, one and alone, without peer or equal, eternal in the past, eternal in the future, detached from all things, ever-abiding, unchangeable, and self-subsisting. He hath assigned no associate unto Himself in His Kingdom, no counsellor to counsel Him, none to compare unto Him, none to rival His glory.” Gleanings, p. 192

You'd have to translate. I can't understand the thees. I never got through KJV because of it.

However God is not near or far in any physical sens because God transcends physicality... Rather, God is as near or far as we allow Him to be in our hearts, since the human heart is where God is centered... This is a difficult and extensive subject.

I would agree with this if thinking of how I would understand it. When a person comes to bahaullah, they have to learn about his language, culture, etc in order to understand what he is saying spiritually. Knowing his wisdom. With god, there shouldn't be such a barrier. If he transcends physicality, one wouldn't need to get to know a prophet. The prophet should be telling you to get to know god "yourself."

Do Muslims believe they know god directly or only through Muhammad?

(Assuming bahai is similar to Islam but not the same?)

“It should be remembered in this connection that the one true God is in Himself exalted beyond and above proximity and remoteness. His reality transcendeth such limitations. His relationship to His creatures knoweth no degrees. That some are near and others are far is to be ascribed to the manifestations themselves.....

Why does this need to be so, though?

What would happen if god were your friend and not your hidden master?

That the heart is the throne, in which the Revelation of God the All-Merciful is centered, is attested by the holy utterances which We have formerly revealed.” Gleanings, p. 185

Imo, there is no reason why a personal God would have to communicate directly to humans. Personal God in the Baha'i faith does not imply a communicating God, as we believe that God communicates messages only through His Messengers.

I would assume god wants to have a relationship with his creation. As god, it would make sense if you want to know someone personally, you "come down to their level."

I'm not sure how god's character would limit him from wanting to have a relationship with others. It's almost as if you're limiting his wants and needs by determine who you feel he is.

This is from god's perspective: he wants a personal relationship with you directly. Whether you agree to it or not or what to go through a prophet is your choice. That doesn't change the nature and desire of a personal god.

Have you tried communicating with god directly?

 

[Trailblazer]

I would see it as if one believes in god, his messages would be very well understood from him directly. In the context god would have more than one language. If we expect god to speak in one language that only one person can translate, it makes believing in god more complicated.

It is a Baha’i belief that God does not speak to anyone directly, God communicates to ONLY His Messengers through the Holy Spirit.

You are anthropomorphizing God, making God into a human being. God is not obligated to do any translating because the Messengers of God do the translating and then they write the scriptures.

What are your thoughts on seeing god equal to yourself so you can have a one to one connection with him just as bahaullah? (Piggy backing on my comment above)

Baha’u’llah did not have a one-on-one connection to God. He simply heard God speak through the Holy Spirit. Baha’u’llah did not consider Himself equal to God, far from it – He was just a Manifestation of God who reflected God’s attributes and revealed God’s message to humanity.

I cannot even imagine being equal to God. God is one and alone, above all of His Creation.

Trailblazer said: “He is, and hath from everlasting been, one and alone, without peer or equal, eternal in the past, eternal in the future, detached from all things, ever-abiding, unchangeable, and self-subsisting. He hath assigned no associate unto Himself in His Kingdom, no counsellor to counsel Him, none to compare unto Him, none to rival His glory.” Gleanings, p. 192

You'd have to translate. I can't understand the thees. I never got through KJV because of it.

That passage is saying that God is one and alone, without peer or equal, eternal in the past, eternal in the future, detached from all things, ever-abiding, unchangeable, and self-subsisting. He has assigned no associate unto Himself in His Kingdom, no counsellor to counsel Him, none to compare unto Him, none to rival His glory.

I would agree with this if thinking of how I would understand it. When a person comes to bahaullah, they have to learn about his language, culture, etc in order to understand what he is saying spiritually. Knowing his wisdom. With god, there shouldn't be such a barrier. If he transcends physicality, one wouldn't need to get to know a prophet. The prophet should be telling you to get to know god "yourself."

According to the Baha’i Faith, that is just not how it works. We can only know God through His Messengers.

Do Muslims believe they know god directly or only through Muhammad?
(Assuming bahai is similar to Islam but not the same?)

I think that Muslims believe that have to go through Muhammad, but I am not sure what they believe.

Trailblazer said: “It should be remembered in this connection that the one true God is in Himself exalted beyond and above proximity and remoteness. His reality transcendeth such limitations. His relationship to His creatures knoweth no degrees. That some are near and others are far is to be ascribed to the manifestations themselves.....

Why does this need to be so, though?

What would happen if god were your friend and not your hidden master?

It has to be so because God decided it is so. God cannot be my friend because God is not a human being.

I would assume god wants to have a relationship with his creation. As god, it would make sense if you want to know someone personally, you "come down to their level."

God knows everything so God knows everything about us. God does not need to come down to our level to know us.

I'm not sure how god's character would limit him from wanting to have a relationship with others. It's almost as if you're limiting his wants and needs by determine who you feel he is.

All I am doing is telling you what Baha’u’llah revealed about God. I am not limiting God. Nobody can limit God or determine who God is. God is who God is. Baha’u’llah simply revealed who God is.

This is from god's perspective: he wants a personal relationship with you directly. Whether you agree to it or not or what to go through a prophet is your choice. That doesn't change the nature and desire of a personal god.

Where did you get the idea that God wants a personal relationship with me directly, Christianity? I do not share those beliefs.

Have you tried communicating with god directly?

I communicate with God directly every time I pray, but I do not expect God to communicate back to me.

 

[dfnj]

Some spiritual teachers I heard have said things like we need to get spiritual pure enough to get in tune with God so we can hear and understand. Then there are the Fundie Christians. They say believe on Jesus and you become pure and get filled with the Holy Spirit, which they believe is part of God. So they do have God within them and are communicating with him.

I tend to think God is both knowable and unknowable at the same time. So anyone who pretends to know or speak for God is delusional. It is the height of human hubris and possible man's greatest possible sin to pretend to speak for God. Because to know the mind of God means you would have to be God. And pretending to be God is surely a lie.

I have a very close friend who is a Fundie to the greatest possible degree. She will thinks Jesus is right beside her every moment of the day guiding her. She will not make tough life decision without getting several signs from God. I have a lot of respect for her because she's been through a ton of crap that would have crushed other people. And through it all she got her masters degree. Yet at the same time I can't help but feel she's slightly being a megalomaniac with her beliefs. I had imaginary friends when I was 6 or 7 and then I grew up.

Her way of being is not for me. I tend to accept the cold hard truth God is completely indifferent to what happens to us. We are responsible for what we are not responsible for in our lives.

 

[Ancient Soul]

Thank you for so perfectly proving my point that it's nothing but bombastic gobbledygook meant only to bedazzle people into thinking there's "something" there, when there really is NOTHING.

Nobody will have any better idea of what a soul really is after reading that garbage, than they did before reading it.

It would be funny if it wasn't so sad.

Anyone who has read my posts on what a soul really is will get more of an accurate description a soul, in WAY less words then they will NEVER get from this Bahá’u’lláh.

He even admits that he is clueless as to what a soul even is:

"The nature of the soul after death can never be described, "

Some "messenger" from "god", ROLLS EYES.

It also makes me wonder where you plagiarizer your description of a soul on another forum thread, you know, the one that looks like MY description of a soul. It obviously did not come from the above copied gibberish.

You mean what you believe the soul is.
Imho, you have no way to know what the soul is, you just imagine you know.

It would be funny if it wasn't so sad.

LOL

There you go again, trying to tell everyone what God did or did not do. I KNOW damn well what my soul really is all about, just like I KNOW I'm sitting here typing in my reply. Geez... Get over yourself already. You read a baseless religious dogma and think that makes you a spiritual know it all, when it doesn't even give out any true spiritual answers. Like this spiritually ignorant quote of Bahá’u’lláh:

"The nature of the soul after death can never be described, "

Some spiritual "messenger" from "god", LOL. Why on my very first visit to the spiritual realm/Heaven God had shown me all about my soul because it was the most important thing he wanted to show me. And your all mighty "messenger" admits that he knows absolutely NOTHING about what it even is. And you actually believe this fake? Worse, you arrogantly go around telling me what God can and cannot do based upon this fake "messenger".

And I didn't miss how you once AGAIN erased out the parts of my posts that you are too afraid to face. Like this one:

"It also makes me wonder where you plagiarizer your description of a soul on another forum thread, you know, the one that looks like MY description of a soul. It obviously did not come from the above copied gibberish."

So if this self-proclaimed fake "messenger" does not know how to describe a soul, then just WHERE did you plagiarizer your description of a soul on another forum thread??? You know, the one that looks like MY description of a soul.

 

[Ancient Soul]

I already covered this MANY TIMES, so WHY don't you pay attention???!!!

ALL religions are just MEN inserting themselves in between God and man, so that they look to MAN for answers instead of God. And all religions have left people spiritually and mentally broken. As ALL souls have a direct connection to God, but religions have broken this connection with their lies.

So quit trying to blame me if you have allowed yourself to be so spiritually broken that you have lost your connection to your own soul, and in turn it's direct connection to God. That's NOT my doing, but it IS your responsibility to quit believing the lies you've been fed and re-establish your own connection to your soul.

Imho, no soul has a direct connection to God. You are free to believe that if you want to because you have free will, and you are even free to propagate that "belief" on this forum, but you are not going to get me to believe it.

I am connected to my own soul since my soul is who I am, but no soul has a direct connection to God, Imho

Hasty wording on my part. I keep forgetting how spiritually ignorant most people are.

While the vast majority of people only have to bare minimum of a connection to their souls, it's just a connection to a small area of about 1/4 of the OUTER SURFACE of their soul's energy. What I meant to say is that religions have broken any chance people would have had to connect to the entire soul with full access to all of it's spiritual abilities, including it's direct communication with God.

Any you proved my statement perfectly when you stated:

"no soul has a direct connection to God"

As THAT flat out lie is what keeps you spiritually broken and unable to connect to your ENTIRE soul.

 

[CG Didymus]

It is a Baha’i belief that God does not speak to anyone directly, God communicates to ONLY His Messengers through the Holy Spirit.

Didn't we just go through this that in John 14:26 it said that the Comforter was the Holy Spirit and later in Acts the Holy Spirit descended on all the disciples of Jesus at Pentecost. But Baha'is say the Comforter is Baha'u'llah. And now you say it is the Holy Spirit that communicates to the messengers? So God doesn't speak directly to them either. God has the Holy Spirit relay the message?