The Morals of the Gods...

[Sunstone]

Are there any reasonable grounds for supposing that whatever the gods do is moral even when what they do would be immoral for humans to do?

For instance, can a deity like Zeus rape a woman and it be moral for some reason? If so, what is that reason?

Or, if you believe it would be immoral of you to sentence someone to be eternally tortured for failing to believe in something indemonstrable, such as that there exists an undetectable leprechaun farting invisible rainbows on the National Mall in Washington, would it still be moral for a deity to sentence someone to the same punishment for the same offense? If so, why? If not, why not?

 

[1137]

Well, I certainly don't accept this, but it's technically reasoning:

Gods created morals to control humans. Morals are not truly objective, they are simply "objective" for humanity. Say that I sin or whatever and it makes the gods angry, then they send me to hell or attack me with lightning or what have you. They do this because I have violated the rules mommy and daddy have laid out for me. So why when god rapes Mary does he not burn in hell? He created hell as the punishment for violation of his laws, which he is above. Hell does not affect him just like prison does not affect politicians.

 

[Sees]

I think morality can lean this way or that way depending on circumstances but with things like rape it's pretty cut and dry. I don't believe morality is based on the nature of the Gods, as per Christian divine command theory, i.e. they have correct moral behavior by default regardless of what they do/have done.

My basic understanding of morality is what leads to health, happiness, prosperity, wholeness - it applies to the behavior of humans and any non-humans in my book...even if they are divine beings.

 

[Riverwolf]

I think morality can lean this way or that way depending on circumstances but with things like rape it's pretty cut and dry. I don't believe morality is based on the nature of the Gods, as per Christian divine command theory, i.e. they have correct moral behavior by default regardless of what they do/have done.

My basic understanding of morality is what leads to health, happiness, prosperity, wholeness - it applies to the behavior of humans and any non-humans in my book...even if they are divine beings.

Pretty much that. Morality doesn't come from the Gods, but rather from conceptions and calculations of what brings help vs. what brings harm, given a particular situation as well as given definitions of what constitute help and harm.

 

[Nietzsche]

Zeus is a dick. That's part of the reason I tend to dislike Hellenistic Paganism.

 

[morphesium]

Are there any reasonable grounds for supposing that whatever the gods do is moral even when what they do would be immoral for humans to do?

For instance, can a deity like Zeus rape a woman and it be moral for some reason? If so, what is that reason?

Or, if you believe it would be immoral of you to sentence someone to be eternally tortured for failing to believe in something indemonstrable, such as that there exists an undetectable leprechaun farting invisible rainbows on the National Mall in Washington, would it still be moral for a deity to sentence someone to the same punishment for the same offense? If so, why? If not, why not?

All gods that came through religion are man made. Most of these godly concepts were fabricated when the moral of the society was much lower than present day standards. So, on those days rape , torturing etc was acceptable form of punishment and so was the deeds of their fabricated gods. As time progressed, societies evolved to keep higher moral standards. For this reason, we no longer can accept such form of punishment or deeds. I haven't come across a god whose scientific knowledge (and moral) is more advanced than an average persons who lived 1400 years ago. If people are freed from the clutches of their religion (especially the one that is creating the most trouble), there is a much higher probability that they will keep much higher moral standards, even better than their gods.

 

[Sultan Of Swing]

Are there any reasonable grounds for supposing that whatever the gods do is moral even when what they do would be immoral for humans to do?

For instance, can a deity like Zeus rape a woman and it be moral for some reason? If so, what is that reason?

Or, if you believe it would be immoral of you to sentence someone to be eternally tortured for failing to believe in something indemonstrable, such as that there exists an undetectable leprechaun farting invisible rainbows on the National Mall in Washington, would it still be moral for a deity to sentence someone to the same punishment for the same offense? If so, why? If not, why not?

Simply because someone is bigger and stronger than you doesn't make them right, the same applies to many gods. The Greek gods were imperfect in this way with their own emotions and lusts, they would fight and punish each other too, they were like us but with a lot more power in their hands.

I would say that with my God as well, (the Christian one), simply because He is mighty and powerful does not make Him always right, that isn't what defines His goodness. I do believe He is always right, for clarification, but not because He is big and immensely powerful.

In fact, even when God gave the Israelites the Ten Commandments, he didn't expect them to just accept it because "I am God I'm right these are your rules", the first thing He tells them before giving the commandments is "I am the LORD thy God, which have brought thee out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage." God proved to the Israelites who He was, a Saviour who truly cared about them and liberated them from slavery.

God proves His character to His Creation, that's why I can trust that my God is moral, the highest and most infinite good. Often when it talks about God "seeking His glory" in the Bible, this is what it's all about, demonstrating God's character, His being to His Creation and His attributes shining throughout it. He hardened Pharaoh's heart to demonstrate His power and authority, He would often save Israel for His own sake, He would give up Israel to wrath too, for His own sake. And finally, in the ultimate display of God's holiness, humility, love and grace, the glory of God shone out as Jesus died on the cross for us, the hands that flung the stars into space were nailed to a wooden cross, for us.

That is why I trust God is good, because what He has done for me, through the person of Jesus Christ and throughout all of history.

 

[Nakosis]

Why do we humans have morals?
Mostly to control our actions and control/judge the actions of others. Even as humans morals seem pretty arbitrary.

An all-powerful being could create any rules for behavior they want to judge others by. They themselves I would assume to be amoral since there would be none to control or judge them.

 

[Around]

Morality is almost always easy to determine. Was there harm created? Was there well-being created? How do they balance? Which sentient is responsible makes no difference.

 

[GoodbyeDave]

Oh dear, where to start?

"Myths" can be anything from profound allegories to silly tales which just happen to feature a god as protagonist. Saying that a specific god had Zeus as his father was placing them in the pantheon. Saying that Zeus fathered a child on a woman was usually a way of providing an heroic ancestor to a community.

Morality is objective: to do the good thing is to do the thing that is good for you as a human being — but it might not be good if you were an ape. We may do the wrong thing through a mistaken set of priorities, but a god would not.

Certain virtues would be virtues in any circumstance, like justice. That's why I cannot respect a Christianity which claims that God would create a fallible being, and then impose eternal punishment for the mistakes made in a short life time.