The movement of the earth in Qur'an

[Shad]

It's still stupid and bla..bla...bla as you used to do.

This is a non-argument thus has no merit, try again. Also I said blah blah once which was in reply to your use of it as a non-argument.

 

[FearGod]

Good to see you admit to post hoc rationalization thus you point is fallacious. You should of become a comedian.

You have nothing to offer other than silly words, the verse is saying in clear words that heavens and earth were one piece, so explain why you think the verse is wrong according to modern science.

 

[FearGod]

This is a non-argument thus has no merit, try again. Also I said blah blah once which was in reply to your use of it as a non-argument.

Debate what, that Mohammed has nothing to do with the Islamic civilization and the creation of the Islamic empire, you can never end your stupid arguments.

 

[gnostic]

Please compare Qur'an and bible, I couldn't find any same concept between Genesis 1:6-8 (bible) and 21:30(Qur'an):
21:30(Qur'an):
"Have those who disbelieved not considered that the heavens and the earth were a joined entity, and We separated them and made from water every living thing? Then will they not believe?"
This verse says that heavens and the earth were a single thing and then are seprated from each other. Then all living things have been created from water. I can not find these concepts in Genesis 1:6-8.

Genesis 1:6-8 (bible)
6 And God said: 'Let there be a firmament in the midst of the waters, and let it divide the waters from the waters.'
7.And God made the firmament, and divided the waters which were under the firmament from the waters which were above the firmament; and it was so.
8 And God called the firmament Heaven. And there was evening and there was morning, a second day.

Separation of heavens and eart, not heaven and earth.
There are verses in the Noble Qur'an that mention sky. But heavens are different from sky.


Genesis say everything come from water(I can not find this in Genesis 1:2). But Qur'an says all living things are from water.


You can think we are blind.
25:5, 6 "And they say, "(Qur'an is) Myths of the former peoples which he has written down, and they are dictated to him morning and afternoon."«5»Say, [O Muhammad], "It has been revealed by He who knows [every] secret within the heavens and the earth. Indeed, He is ever Forgiving and Merciful.«6»"

If you seriously think the verses in the Qur'an are related to the Big Bang, then you really are totally ignorant about the scientific theory.

The observable universe give us the age of the universe of at least being 13.78 billion years old.

There were no stars till at least 560 million years after the Big Bang, according to the most current estimate from ESA's Planck telescope. At that time, there were no planets whatsoever, during the first generation of stars, because there were no elements heavier than hydrogen, helium, lithium and beryllium (the last two are the least abundant of the elements). Other elements didn't exist until the 1st generation of stars ended with supernovae or as blackholes, etc; 26 elements were known and formed by the time of death of the first stars.

But the Sun were formed around about the same time the Earth, 4.67 billion years. The Earth wasn't created or formed by the Big Bang, because the whole solar system didn't exist till 9 billion years after the Big Bang.

So the whole claim that the heaven meaning "universe" in the Qur'an is utterly absurd, when the Earth wasn't around for the Big Bang. And if you (or any Muslim) brought up this verse about the Earth separating from the universe/heaven as being the Big Bang to the astrophysicists, astronomers and cosmologists, they would proverb laugh you off the stage.

There are 9 billion years separating the Big Bang from formation of the Earth. And our sun is 3rd or 4th stars, formed from combinations of debris of earlier stars and molecular clouds.

The earth didn't form due to separation, but from collapse of gravity and debris of interstellar materials.

The "heaven" in all the Qur'an verses only referred to the observable sky, not the universe.

Your mistake in interpretation to the verse, is that you are putting modern scientific context into what are already vague medieval verses. The verses should be understand the period it was written in, and not through misrepresenting both science and the Qur'an. I find the Muslims who make these sort of interpretations to be both dishonest and ignorant, the same with Christian creationists.

41:12 ؛Then He made them seven heavens in two spans of time and revealed to each heaven its law. And We adorned the lower heaven with stars, and firmly secured it. All this is the firm plan of the All-Mighty, the All-Knowing.

this verse says that all stars are in the lower heaven and are not in the other heavens. So All stars are in the first heaven and consequently, maybe we can say that other heavens are not in our view. So maybe they are dark matter which we can not see it.

ROTF

This ignorance brought tears to my eyes, because I was laughing so hard.

Dark matter has been hypothesed to be all around the universe, so it is all around the Milky Way too. Dark matters are not in some parts of the universe.

According to the data of both NASA and ESA (European Space Agency), their respective space observatories - WMAP and Planck satellite - the universe is comprised of 26.8% of dark matters, and only 4.9% of ordinary matters. The rest of the universe 68.3% of dark energy.

Dark energy is what cause the universe or space to expand, and what keep galaxies rotate, and move. While the dark matter are objects that don't emit or absorb electromagnetic radiations (including light). That's why dark matters can't be observe directly, but we can detect them through its gravitational forces that have effects on visible matters (stars, galaxies and planets), and on electromagnetic radiations.

You really don't know what you are talking about. Aren't you embarrassed in talking about something you have no understanding of what your are talking about?

 

[FearGod]

If you seriously think the verses in the Qur'an are related to the Big Bang, then you really are totally ignorant about the scientific theory.

The observable universe give us the age of the universe of at least being 13.78 billion years old.

There were no stars till at least 560 million years after the Big Bang, according to the most current estimate from ESA's Planck telescope. At that time, there were no planets whatsoever, during the first generation of stars, because there were no elements heavier than hydrogen, helium, lithium and beryllium (the last two are the least abundant of the elements). Other elements didn't exist until the 1st generation of stars ended with supernovae or as blackholes, etc; 26 elements were known and formed by the time of death of the first stars.

But the Sun were formed around about the same time the Earth, 4.67 billion years. The Earth wasn't created or formed by the Big Bang, because the whole solar system didn't exist till 9 billion years after the Big Bang.

So the whole claim that the heaven meaning "universe" in the Qur'an is utterly absurd, when the Earth wasn't around for the Big Bang. And if you (or any Muslim) brought up this verse about the Earth separating from the universe/heaven as being the Big Bang to the astrophysicists, astronomers and cosmologists, they would proverb laugh you off the stage.

There are 9 billion years separating the Big Bang from formation of the Earth. And our sun is 3rd or 4th stars, formed from combinations of debris of earlier stars and molecular clouds.

The earth didn't form due to separation, but from collapse of gravity and debris of interstellar materials.

The "heaven" in all the Qur'an verses only referred to the observable sky, not the universe.

Your mistake in interpretation to the verse, is that you are putting modern scientific context into what are already vague medieval verses. The verses should be understand the period it was written in, and not through misrepresenting both science and the Qur'an. I find the Muslims who make these sort of interpretations to be both dishonest and ignorant, the same with Christian creationists.

I think you should study hard with the other guy who proved the heliocentric model as to be a solid fact than being a favorable model.

The big bang

Did you know that the matter in your body is billions of years old?

According to most astrophysicists, all the matter found in the universe today -- including the matter in people, plants, animals, the earth, stars, and galaxies -- was created at the very first moment of time, thought to be about 13 billion years ago.
Origins: CERN: Ideas: The Big Bang | Exploratorium

 

[Shad]

Debate what, that Mohammed has nothing to do with the Islamic civilization and the creation of the Islamic empire, you can never end your stupid arguments.

There is a difference with having something to do with Islam and creating the Islamic Empire beyond his life time. Nice try at changing what you said

You have nothing to offer other than silly words, the verse is saying in clear words that heavens and earth were one piece, so explain why you think the verse is wrong according to modern science.

The Earth is roughly 4.5 billion years old and part of the universe. The universe is 13.8 billion, roughly. So for one the Earth never existed at the time of the Big Bang thus can not be split from it at this time. To both to have been joined then split the Earth must exist after this split, not 9 billion years later. Secondly the Earth is still part of the universe as the universe is not a singular object but contains all known objects. So to separate heaven and Earth would mean Earth is not part of the universe at all. However since the Earth is part of the universe this verse is in error if read as the Big Bang. Also all life is comprised of elements which have nothing to do with water. You also must assume without merit that l-samāwāti is talking about the universe rather than heaven as the spiritual domains. There is also the fact that other creation myths which predate Islam which has the same splits/dividing of heaven and Earth as per my previous Chinese example. Thus repeating a story already in existence is not evidence of anything but repeating what is already believed by previous cultures. Spearation of the heaven(s) and Earth is a common motif which dates back millennia before Islam.

Big Bang - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Composition of the human body - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Epic of Creation (Mesopotamia) | Thematic Essay | Heilbrunn Timeline of Art History | The Metropolitan Museum of Art
A dictionary of Creation Myths, David Adams Leeming

 

[Shad]

I think you should study hard with the other guy who proved the heliocentric model as to be a solid fact than being a favorable model.

The big bang

Did you know that the matter in your body is billions of years old?

According to most astrophysicists, all the matter found in the universe today -- including the matter in people, plants, animals, the earth, stars, and galaxies -- was created at the very first moment of time, thought to be about 13 billion years ago.
Origins: CERN: Ideas: The Big Bang | Exploratorium

That is not the same thing, the verse does not say the materials of the Earth, it says the Earth. This name can only apply to the planet as an object itself. Otherwise I could claim any of the material which forms me which did exist before I existed is also me. However this is fallacious as your are equivocating material of an object with the object itself. You just refuted your own argument congratulations.

You mean the link which prove the model is fact? You have yet to refute any of it. Heliocentrism is a fact and has been for hundreds of years. Check up to the modern world and education system.

 

[Shad]

If you seriously think the verses in the Qur'an are related to the Big Bang, then you really are totally ignorant about the scientific theory.

The observable universe give us the age of the universe of at least being 13.78 billion years old.

There were no stars till at least 560 million years after the Big Bang, according to the most current estimate from ESA's Planck telescope. At that time, there were no planets whatsoever, during the first generation of stars, because there were no elements heavier than hydrogen, helium, lithium and beryllium (the last two are the least abundant of the elements). Other elements didn't exist until the 1st generation of stars ended with supernovae or as blackholes, etc; 26 elements were known and formed by the time of death of the first stars.

But the Sun were formed around about the same time the Earth, 4.67 billion years. The Earth wasn't created or formed by the Big Bang, because the whole solar system didn't exist till 9 billion years after the Big Bang.

So the whole claim that the heaven meaning "universe" in the Qur'an is utterly absurd, when the Earth wasn't around for the Big Bang. And if you (or any Muslim) brought up this verse about the Earth separating from the universe/heaven as being the Big Bang to the astrophysicists, astronomers and cosmologists, they would proverb laugh you off the stage.

There are 9 billion years separating the Big Bang from formation of the Earth. And our sun is 3rd or 4th stars, formed from combinations of debris of earlier stars and molecular clouds.

The earth didn't form due to separation, but from collapse of gravity and debris of interstellar materials.

The "heaven" in all the Qur'an verses only referred to the observable sky, not the universe.

Your mistake in interpretation to the verse, is that you are putting modern scientific context into what are already vague medieval verses. The verses should be understand the period it was written in, and not through misrepresenting both science and the Qur'an. I find the Muslims who make these sort of interpretations to be both dishonest and ignorant, the same with Christian creationists.


ROTF

This ignorance brought tears to my eyes, because I was laughing so hard.

Dark matter has been hypothesed to be all around the universe, so it is all around the Milky Way too. Dark matters are not in some parts of the universe.

According to the data of both NASA and ESA (European Space Agency), their respective space observatories - WMAP and Planck satellite - the universe is comprised of 26.8% of dark matters, and only 4.9% of ordinary matters. The rest of the universe 68.3% of dark energy.

Dark energy is what cause the universe or space to expand, and what keep galaxies rotate, and move. While the dark matter are objects that don't emit or absorb electromagnetic radiations (including light). That's why dark matters can't be observe directly, but we can detect them through its gravitational forces that have effects on visible matters (stars, galaxies and planets), and on electromagnetic radiations.

You really don't know what you are talking about. Aren't you embarrassed in talking about something you have no understanding of what your are talking about?

Defending a false ideology is more important than anything else. This is how fundamentalism works in the minds of the ignorant.

 

[FearGod]

That is not the same thing, the verse does not say the materials of the Earth, it says the Earth. This name can only apply to the planet as an object itself. Otherwise I could claim any of the material which forms me which did exist before I existed is also me. However this is fallacious as your are equivocating material of an object with the object itself. You just refuted your own argument congratulations.

You mean the link which prove the model is fact? You have yet to refute any of it. Heliocentrism is a fact and has been for hundreds of years. Check up to the modern world and education system.

It wasn't earth when it was and the universe as one single point, does need only a brain of 10 years old child to understand the verse.

 

[Shad]

It wasn't earth when it was and the universe as one single point, does need only a brain of 10 years old child to understand the verse.

Yet the verse says Earth as an object but the Earth does not exist until 9 billion years later. It does not say the Earth did not exist at this time nor does it mention the materials of the Earth. It only mentions two objects, heaven and Earth. Thus your argument is fallacious, masked man fallacy. You also ignore the fact that the Earth is still within the universe, it is one of the trillions of objects which comprise it at the present. Thus to be separate from it means the Earth is not part of the universe. Seems like Mo thinks like a 10 year old since he, and you, can not understand basic grammar, sentence structure and definitions of words. You are changing the verse to fit science which is post hoc rationalization thus is fallacious. All of the above is only if I grant the word means universe which I do not. Just for argument sake have I allowed it. Try again son

 

[FearGod]

Yet the verse says Earth as an object but the Earth does not exist until 9 billion years later. It does not say the Earth did not exist at this time nor does it mention the materials of the Earth. It only mentions two objects, heaven and Earth. Thus your argument is fallacious, masked man fallacy. You also ignore the fact that the Earth is still within the universe, it is one of the trillions of objects which comprise it at the present. Thus to be separate from it means the Earth is not part of the universe. Seems like Mo thinks like a 10 year old since he, and you, can not understand basic grammar, sentence structure and definitions of words. You are changing the verse to fit science which is post hoc rationalization thus is fallacious. All of the above is only if I grant the word means universe which I do not. Just for argument sake have I allowed it. Try again son

I can see a great stupid points here, but i ain't surprised as i used to your silly previous posts, i'm leaving this thread because i can see only few ignorant sharing stupid ideas which may hurt my intelligence, read some books or take few courses and don't forget my advice,some vitamins, coffee and good sleep.

 

[Shad]

I can see a great stupid points here, but i ain't surprised as i used to your silly previous posts, i'm leaving this thread because i can see only few ignorant sharing stupid ideas which may hurt my intelligence, read some books or take few courses and don't forget my advice,some vitamins, coffee and good sleep.

Not stupidity, the education and capability to point out illogical arguments. Both of which you lack. Hence why I can name your fallacies and point each out. Maybe finish high school and come back to this thread. Next time come with arguments above those that a child can make, son.

 

[Aquitaine]

The Empire was established after his death thus he can not be given credit for it.

Hell to my knowledge the first Qur'an only came out after he was dead.

 

[Aquitaine]

But what you call him as an illiterate cave dweller is the one who established the great Islamic empire, your opinion is different than those who studied his biography.

But he was illiterate, and he was a cave dweller early on. . . . .

 

[FearGod]

Not stupidity, the education and capability to point out illogical arguments. Both of which you lack. Hence why I can name your fallacies and point each out. Maybe finish high school and come back to this thread. Next time come with arguments above those that a child can make, son.

From saying son i realized now that you're very old man, i felt that there's something wrong, but that is expected in such old ages, avoid cold and drink lemon then you'll be fine.

In your next post you'll say that you're young, but i have to believe you grandpa. don't worry

 

[Shad]

From saying son i realized now that you're very old man, i felt that there's something wrong, but that is expected in such old ages, avoid cold and drink lemon then you'll be fine.

In your next post you'll say that you're young, but i have to believe you grandpa. don't worry

No, I call you son as you havecomments that provided no counter-arguments other than blah blah or "that's stupid". Both are responses of a child as you avoid the argument and make unsubstantiated statements. It has nothing to do with age but your lack of education, ignorant based response and use of fallacies.

 

[Shad]

But he was illiterate, and he was a cave dweller early on. . . . .

You should read some of the latest academic work on the Quran. It is nothing like that of the Islamic tradition. There is a huge difference between the religious adherence view and historians.

 

[gnostic]

I think you should study hard with the other guy who proved the heliocentric model as to be a solid fact than being a favorable model.

There was no expanding in the heliocentric model.

I don't think you even know what a heliocentric model is.

The heliocentric and geocentric models only focused on the orbital motion of planets, and if the planets, especially Earth, orbits around the Sun (and the centre of the system) - which is the former model (heliocentric), or whether the Earth is in the centre and the planets and Sun orbit around the Earth, hence geocentric model.

Geocentric model was very popular in ancient and medieval times, before the invention of the telescope. It require absolutely no intelligence to see that the Sun rise in the East and set in the West, and the Moon followed the same course, and all this done just by looking at the sky with your own eyes.

None of the verses in Qur'an present heliocentric model.

Anyway, the two models, are only on the models of planetary motions, and nothing to do with the expanding universe (Big Bang) or the creation of the solar system.

The age of Earth or the solar system is irrelevant to geocentric or heliocentric models, because these 2 models only explain the orbital courses of sun, moon and planets. How life on Earth (including humans) was created or formed, are also irrelevant to the subject of geocentric vs heliocentric.

With science, you are trying to mix 3 different subjects as one.

I think you should study hard with the other guy who proved the heliocentric model as to be a solid fact than being a favorable model.

The big bang

Did you know that the matter in your body is billions of years old?

You don't know how to read, do you?

Did I say that all matters weren't created by the stars?

Couple of time, I clearly stated that all matters, including our solar system, hence the Sun and Earth, were made by older stars. But the Earth was formed roughly around the same time, as Sun and the other planets, which is under 5 billion years ago.

The Big Bang really only cover the beginning of expansion to formation of the first stars and galaxies. Our solar system didn't exist prior to 5 billion years ago. The Earth didn't exist before the solar system. And the Earth definitely didn't exist before the 1st stars.

The Earth was only formed, by the evidences of the oldest rocks, is only 4.57 billion ago, and the Earth was formed until 9 billion years AFTER the Big Bang.

The universe was expanding for about 9 billion years, before the solar system was formed. Our Earth, while it is important for us, had nothing to do with the expansion itself.

I understand the Big Bang and our solar system better than you.

You, on the other hand, are trying to twist not only the Qur'an, but you have deliberately misrepresent science in regarding to basic astronomy and the more complex cosmology, with silly vague verses in the Qur'an, with incessant blah-blah-this, or blah-blah-that.

 

[FearGod]

No, I call you son as you havecomments that provided no counter-arguments other than blah blah or "that's stupid". Both are responses of a child as you avoid the argument and make unsubstantiated statements. It has nothing to do with age but your lack of education, ignorant based response and use of fallacies.

If that what son means then i have to call you baby.

 

[FearGod]

I have to declare at this point that stupidity has won in order to save my time, good luck, i can't waste more time for such stupid arguments.