The nature of the self/ego

[YmirGF]

1. What is the role of the self in your religion?
2. Is our perception of self(identity) an illusion? Why or why not?
3. Is the self of any importance or is it seen to exist simply to glorify the god of your religion?
4. If your religion believes the individual was created, why was it created?
5. According to your religion does the self grow or is it something that diminishes in favor of another aspect of being?
6. According to your religion is there a final state of being, by whatever avenue taken? If so, please describe it.
7. According to your religion is there a difference between self and what we know as the ego.
8. Is the ego something that needs to be guided, checked, reigned in, annihilated or corrected.


Your thoughts on these questions would be greatly appreciated.

Note: This is placed in a discussion area and so debate is not permitted.

To borrow from a thoughtful poster, if you could identify your religion and then give your answers, that would be most helpful.

Feel free to answer some, or all, of the questions, as you wish, or have time for.

The last point is a plea to try to refrain from the cut and paste technique from your favorite scripture. IF, and it is a big IF, the section is applicable, then go for it, otherwise please try to answer the questions in your own words.

 

[swamplizard]

Greetings Ymir,

Although God is, I have no labled religion. With that out of the way, I'll attempt a shot at your inquiry.

The mind is a tool of the true self; the ego is the mind convinced it is not a tool but the entity. There are no shoulds when considering the implications of these facets of self and mind manifestations.

The self is the connection with the One All.
The self contains the One All.
The One All contains the self.

The ego, complete with beliefs stands on the reflection side of the two-way mirror.
The self, composed of the gnosis of One All observes the mind from the other side.
When the eyes of the mirror open, awareness of the mind being subordinate to the self follows.

Just my boggy nickle,
best,
swampy

 

[atanu]

Yes. Ego and Mind that we know are nearly equivalent. It is called chidabhAsa, which means the appearance or reflection of Chit (the true mind) that is unseeable, since it sees.

 

[YmirGF]

*bump*

 

[Gjallarhorn]

1. What is the role of the self in your religion?

The same role it has anywhere else.

2. Is our perception of self(identity) an illusion? Why or why not?

Probably. Even the conscious mind is just the tip of the iceberg.

3. Is the self of any importance or is it seen to exist simply to glorify the god of your religion?

No gods, so it can't really glorify them. It does have a habit of glorifying its own creations though.

4. If your religion believes the individual was created, why was it created?

The idea of the self helps in certain situations.

5. According to your religion does the self grow or is it something that diminishes in favor of another aspect of being?

Diminishes.

6. According to your religion is there a final state of being, by whatever avenue taken? If so, please describe it.

I guess...

7. According to your religion is there a difference between self and what we know as the ego.

That's tricky. I keep trying to answer but it's all semantics really.

8. Is the ego something that needs to be guided, checked, reigned in, annihilated or corrected.

All of the above.

 

[Onkara]

1. What is the role of the self in your religion?
2. Is our perception of self(identity) an illusion? Why or why not?
3. Is the self of any importance or is it seen to exist simply to glorify the god of your religion?
4. If your religion believes the individual was created, why was it created?
5. According to your religion does the self grow or is it something that diminishes in favor of another aspect of being?
6. According to your religion is there a final state of being, by whatever avenue taken? If so, please describe it.
7. According to your religion is there a difference between self and what we know as the ego.
8. Is the ego something that needs to be guided, checked, reigned in, annihilated or corrected.

Hello YmirGF
I will try to answer from my personal study of Dharma:

1. The role of ego (or self) is for our physical life or survival in the world. It simply helps us to act and respond to a world of objects. E.g. "I (ego) am driving now and must pay attention to the road".

2. When self (ego) goes un-questioned, as it does for many since birth, then it can lead us to desire a result from our actions, e.g. when we think "I must get that object". This may result in emotions such as disappointment, anger, guilt, joy and the desire to act again to try to get or repel something. It then becomes a motive for acting and having to deal with the consequences, for better or worse. This isn't a problem unless someone finds they are unhappy and wishes the unhappiness to end.

3. It is not that important. It need not have anything to do with "God" concepts. "God" concepts help.

4. The individual was created to experience the world i.e. the creation and evolve with it.

5. It is not a phenomena that grows or becomes less, it is closer to a thought and as such is closer to a process or habit of thinking.

6. There is no final or change in our state of being. Logically physical death and birth occurs to living beings, but during this life, right now, there is no reason to imagine a change in being.

7. Self with a capital S can refer to the Atman-Brahman or the permanent Consciousness. Small self I take to mean "ego" as per the title of the thread.

8. The practice of guiding, checking, or reigned in, annihilated or corrected are talked of and prescribed by some people. In reality these are methods to see the ego in action and are not the actual answer. In other words they are tricks to see the trickster, but not the solution.

Hope that adds to the topic

 

[swamplizard]

Yes. Ego and Mind that we know are nearly equivalent. It is called chidabhAsa, which means the appearance or reflection of Chit (the true mind) that is unseeable, since it sees.

Great input atanu, your wording is kindred to inner "thought."

best,
swampy

 

[YmirGF]

I was hoping for input from Buddhists, Muslims and Christians... maybe yet...

 

[Twig pentagram]

1. What is the role of the self in your religion?

I AM the identifying conscious.
2.

Is our perception of self(identity) an illusion? Why or why not?

No, because we are real.
3.

Is the self of any importance or is it seen to exist simply to glorify the god of your religion?

The self is one with the god. The self is god experiencing divinity.
4.

If your religion believes the individual was created, why was it created?

Our origin is a mystery like capstones on pyramids.
5.

According to your religion does the self grow or is it something that diminishes in favor of another aspect of being?

Everyone has their own path.
6.

According to your religion is there a final state of being, by whatever avenue taken? If so, please describe it.

The universe works in mysterious ways and there are many things that I have no knowledge of.
7.

According to your religion is there a difference between self and what we know as the ego.

The ego is part of the self.
8.

Is the ego something that needs to be guided, checked, reigned in, annihilated or corrected.

It all depends on the situation at hand.

HOTEP.

 

[Bob Dixon]

1. What is the role of the self in your religion?
To identify you as "you".
2. Is our perception of self(identity) an illusion? Why or why not?
Yes, but... I mean, we are all one, ultimately. But I am me and you are you, so...
In ordinary life, no. For the enlightened man, yes.
3. Is the self of any importance or is it seen to exist simply to glorify the god of your religion?
Both. Glorifying God is important.
4. If your religion believes the individual was created, why was it created?
N/A; the individual came into being by birth, not spontaneous creation.
5. According to your religion does the self grow or is it something that diminishes in favor of another aspect of being?
Can be either, depending on what you do.
6. According to your religion is there a final state of being, by whatever avenue taken? If so, please describe it.
Sure there is. Jesus talks about it sometimes in the Gospels.
Describe it? Ahahahahahaha! I can't; it's impossible! I don't know anything about it!
7. According to your religion is there a difference between self and what we know as the ego.
No.
8. Is the ego something that needs to be guided, checked, reigned in, annihilated or corrected.
For regular people, guided, checked, and corrected. For enlightened and holy people, annihilated.

Official Christian doctrine? Nope.
My good guesses/beliefs? Sure.

 

[swamplizard]

The self of reality does not have needs nor desires. Existence is the residence of self.

dusty breeze,
best,
swampy

 

[zenzero]

Friend Ymir,

Personal understanding is that ego is the reflection that one gets from the mirror and when one is observing ONLY a part of the reflection it is the EGO/MIND that is the forefront and the consciousness or the *whole* recedes to the background a gestalt but understanding and realizing that what is observed is linked to that WHOLE and is a part of IT then the mind is functioning efficiently or else the ego or the unconsciousness keeps the illusion going!
Love & rgds

 

[doppelganger]

Friend Ymir,

Personal understanding is that ego is the reflection that one gets from the mirror and when one is observing ONLY a part of the reflection it is the EGO/MIND that is the forefront and the consciousness or the *whole* recedes to the background a gestalt but understanding and realizing that what is observed is linked to that WHOLE and is a part of IT then the mind is functioning efficiently or else the ego or the unconsciousness keeps the illusion going!
Love & rgds

Just an aside, zenzero, but have you ever explored the philosophy behind "E-prime"? The way you write is very consistent with it.

I think E-Prime might be worth it's own thread if anyone is interested in discussing it.

E-Prime - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Though I find it relates well to this topic, too.

 

[zenzero]

Friend Dopp,

Thank you for enlightening me on the subject.

Frankly had no idea about E-Prime; however the fact of the matter is that being part of that *whole* the mind is not allowed to create any separation between the individual form with the whole which includes all forms, and religions are only path to tune oneself with that whole and since follow no particular path but always attempt to tune with the whole to be best possible manner, time being eternal.

Friend Dopp,
We all discuss what someone has written about in the form of books which may be scriptures too through his own experiences and it is remains outside the self or selves discussing but what such discussion lacks is connection amongst the selves which can come about through discussion of personal understanding, experiences and so on.

And someone has labelled such way of expression as E-Prime then it may be so.
Love & rgds

 

[Quintessence]

1. What is the role of the self in your religion?
2. Is our perception of self(identity) an illusion? Why or why not?
3. Is the self of any importance or is it seen to exist simply to glorify the god of your religion?
4. If your religion believes the individual was created, why was it created?
5. According to your religion does the self grow or is it something that diminishes in favor of another aspect of being?
6. According to your religion is there a final state of being, by whatever avenue taken? If so, please describe it.
7. According to your religion is there a difference between self and what we know as the ego.
8. Is the ego something that needs to be guided, checked, reigned in, annihilated or corrected.

I should probably start by saying my religion is my own, and really is not discernible from my way of life as a whole, nor from who I am.

Therefore, the self must have an important role. I, like everyone else, am at the perceptual center of my own personal universe. I understand the limitations of human beings and individual perception, and maintain a streak of skepticism/agnosticism with pretty much everything.

The self is and is not an illusion. It depends on point of view and what level of organization you're looking at. My path tends to emphasize holism rather than individualism, though: you exist because the universe does. Any notion of an independent self is something I would call an illusion, for sure.

The third question again it depends on point of view. Your ego, in the grand scale of the universe, is pretty damned insignificant. But, considering the ecosystem of bacteria living in your intestines, their entire world would end if you did.

There is no "final" state of being. All the universe is in constant transformation. If that stopped, well... the laws of nature would stop and the universe (and us) would pretty much cease to exist. A final state of being would be incredibly undesirable.

That doesn't answer all of them, but some questions I just didn't know how to take. >_<

 

[Secret Chief]

Buddhist.

1. What is the role of the self in your religion?
Self is a process, an event. It is not a fixed entity, so in one sense could be said to not exist (anatta).

2. Is our perception of self(identity) an illusion? Why or why not?

See 1. Useful term in a conventional sense.

3. Is the self of any importance or is it seen to exist simply to glorify the god of your religion?

See 1. No glorification of a god.

4. If your religion believes the individual was created, why was it created?

The individual is the self, so see 1. Asking why does not assist in amelioration of the human condition; such an imponderable should be set aside.*

5. According to your religion does the self grow or is it something that diminishes in favor of another aspect of being?

As much as it is said to exist, the self changes moment by moment.

6. According to your religion is there a final state of being, by whatever avenue taken? If so, please describe it.

Nirvana.*
The best word I can think of is ineffable.

7. According to your religion is there a difference between self and what we know as the ego.

I might use either term, usually the former.

8. Is the ego something that needs to be guided, checked, reigned in, annihilated or corrected.

See previous answers.

 

[atanu]

My understanding is as per advaita school of sanatana dharma.

1. What is the role of the self in your religion?

To carry the dharma wheel forward so that the zigsaw puzzle is solved efficiently.

2. Is our perception of self(identity) an illusion? Why or why not?

While claiming the self as illusion, the self is upheld. Even to deny a self, a self is required. Discrete selves, unconnected to life force, is however an illusion. There is no sense of self without life force.

3. Is the self of any importance or is it seen to exist simply to glorify the god of your religion?

Many selves exist as the very nature of Existence, which is pure Consciousness and Bliss, denoted as Param Brahman, which is the most common generality underlying existence. Param Brahman stands transcendental to souls and yet is the very reality of the souls.

4. If your religion believes the individual was created, why was it created?

Souls or living beings or Jiva-s exist timelessly along with existence-consciousness-bliss in a single life force. They are timeless designs animated by consciousness of the existent and have no intelligence or life of their own. They are like ornaments made of god, wherein gold is reality and the design is a concept.

5. According to your religion does the self grow or is it something that diminishes in favor of another aspect of being?

The latter, after extinguishing the purpose -- the primeval desire that arises as mind viewed by the changeless Brahman.

6. According to your religion is there a final state of being, by whatever avenue taken? If so, please describe it.

There is no final state as such for the whole. There is however a state of release from cause-effect chain for individual minds.

7. According to your religion is there a difference between self and what we know as the ego.

Self, being the whole, has no volition and no self. There is life force that is "I Am". The life force has infinte heads, hands, legs. Individual self can exist at three levels as per its understanding. It can be the body, it can be the mind, or it can be the Atman, which means wherefrom the "Me" arises. At the final level of understanding that self is Atman, it is not distinct from Brahman.

8. Is the ego something that needs to be guided, checked, reigned in, annihilated or corrected.

The ego is bound to causal determinism. It has however the freedom to understand this or it has the freedom to vehemently deny this. But the reality of ego is life force and reality of life force is Brahman. Life force is called the truth and Brahman-Atman (Self) is called the Truth of the Truth.
..................

However, at another level, since there is no individual and since all these concepts are mental, when seen from the end of Pram Brahman there exists no one who is ignorant nor any one who is seeking release.

 

[swamplizard]

One that is aware
of one doing,
of one residing,
of one's other,
is aware of knowing the one.

More nickles from the lizard,
best,
swampy

 

[Penumbra]

1. What is the role of the self in your religion?

I don't have a religion, but self guides most actions. I observe that the self guides most actions in most other people too.

2. Is our perception of self(identity) an illusion? Why or why not?

That seems to to depend largely on how the self is defined. I see more disagreements on this based on definitions and lack of precision than on content, but depending on what people put forth, I disagree on some content as well.

3. Is the self of any importance or is it seen to exist simply to glorify the god of your religion?

I don't have a god.

4. If your religion believes the individual was created, why was it created?

I see no evidence of creation. Just a process.

5. According to your religion does the self grow or is it something that diminishes in favor of another aspect of being?

Over the course of a human life time, the self generally becomes more developed from childhood to adulthood, then often developed further into older adulthood, and then often diminishes with very old age, regressing to a childlike state.

6. According to your religion is there a final state of being, by whatever avenue taken? If so, please describe it.

Nonexistence, I assume. Unless shown otherwise. If I break my computer, I don't assume Windows 7 to be anywhere in particular. Brain damage can change the self, or make it so that a person doesn't show any signs of having a self.

7. According to your religion is there a difference between self and what we know as the ego.

I'd say the ego is the self's ability to acknowledge that it is a self. Not all beings have that capacity, only some.

8. Is the ego something that needs to be guided, checked, reigned in, annihilated or corrected.

It's good for the ego to determine what works or does not work for itself, and act accordingly.

 

[Caladan]

Non religious, avid reader of religious books.

1. What is the role of the self in your religion?

I don't think there is anything but the self. realistically speaking. the self is who we are, our desires are a sign of health.

2. Is our perception of self(identity) an illusion? Why or why not?

No, for the most part. who knows ourselves better than us? who knows the people, the experiences, the interests, and the geography which has shaped our identity better than us?
identity can be developed and enhanced. there is something enriching and its a source of great fun to get to know yourself, and to go after your interests.

3. Is the self of any importance or is it seen to exist simply to glorify the god of your religion?

Nothing can be more important. when the self is healthy, people around you will be more comfortable as well. you will gain more friends too.

4. If your religion believes the individual was created, why was it created?

Man as a microcosm sits well with me in this regard. to see the expressions of different levels of the cosmos in man or in life around us is a psychologically reassuring thing. it is no surprise that different civilizations and cultures around the world adhered to the golden ratio.
however, it is more of a naturalistic fact, and not necessarily an indication that there is a Watchmaker.

5. According to your religion does the self grow or is it something that diminishes in favor of another aspect of being?

Identity can grow, and also layers of personality can be peeled in order to dig more depth of character, and perhaps even more interests you didn't know about.

6. According to your religion is there a final state of being, by whatever avenue taken? If so, please describe it.

I don't think that there is a final state of being. life is dynamic, and we can be receptive to change.

7. According to your religion is there a difference between self and what we know as the ego.

I don't think there is. if we have to talk in practical terms. the ego is our conscious part which interacts with the world. of course we can take into account the unconscious world.

8. Is the ego something that needs to be guided, checked, reigned in, annihilated or corrected.

The question can easily be applied to the 'Self' category. there are times in which the self feels part of a greater thing, but I think its healthy to remember where you come from.