The Need For Christian Symbolism on Government Property

[Faithofchristian]

You literally did exactly what I asked you not to do, and failed to answer my question.



Can you actually answer my question or is the logically fallacious excuse, "well, what else could it be", all you've got?

Here are a few alternative reasons for taking down these symbols: They are a violation of the US Constitution and the law. They show support for one religion over another. They could make members of other faiths feel unwelcome in their own community.

Seeing you still don't get it.
You say it's against the Constitution, but yet the people who Written up the Constitution, put All men are created equal by the creator.
If to what you say it's against the Constitution, why would those people put created equal by the Creator, if it's to be against the Constitution. Your not making any Sense at all.

But you, yourself did answer my first question, What is the real Motive behind in having them Removed.

 

[Brickjectivity]

Why is it necessary that images from the Old Testament appear on our government buildings?

Those I agree with, since the Tanach is a book of law. That is, they are legitimate and not necessarily religious so much as cultural. Do we not have other historical mythological figures from other founding cultures such as Greece? Is not the Washington Monument a giant Egyptian phallus? I think having a picture of Moses is appropriate since he is influential in our laws.

And if they're not necessary then why do we allow them? Aren't churches and the homes of their parishioners adequate?

This is debatable.

 

[Faithofchristian]

"God" is a proper name for the Xian god.
"Creator" is generic, including Allah, God, Lakshmi, Zeus, etc, etc.

Would you be OK with replacing "God" with "Allah"?

You still do not get it, Those people who Written up the Constitution only believed in one God, which is the Christian God.

There would be no other reason for them to put in the Constitution restricting God from the very thing they believed in.

So what is your true Motive behind it?

 

[Rational Agnostic]

Write them a letter, maybe they will let you take it all down and replace it with porn.

You do know that many of the founding fathers were not Christians, right? Jefferson, in particular, mocked Christianity as a fable.

 

[Terrywoodenpic]

Maybe you should study out about those people long ago, Who founded this Country.
And why they put in the Constitution, All men are created equal by the creator.

It seems they didn't have a Problem with God in things.

Whilst the founders weren't all Christian, those that were not were Deists or Unitarians. which following the enlightenment, was very common amongst the intelligentsia of the time, both in Europe and the American colonies.
But which was perhaps far from normal for the common people, a vast majority of whom followed one Christian denomination or another.
People professing to be atheists or who followed other religions were a distant and insignificant minority.

 

[leibowde84]

Seeing you still don't get it.
You say it's against the Constitution, but yet the people who Written up the Constitution, put All men are created equal by the creator.
If to what you say it's against the Constitution, why would those people put created equal by the Creator, if it's to be against the Constitution. Your not making any Sense at all.

But you, yourself did answer my first question, What is the real Motive behind in having them Removed.

Because saying "all men are created equal by a creator" Is not endorsing Christianity or putting one religion over another. So, while that might bother me, I don't think it is unconstitutional.

 

[BSM1]

I think we should leave all the religious symbolism & proselytizing on government
property & on money. Moreover, in the interest of diversity, we should even expand it.
I recommend that we add other religious messages, & even change things up regularly.
Examples....

Coins & bills could be minted & printed with a variety of slogans...
"In Allah we trust"
"In no gods we trust"
"The FSM rules"
"Mind your business"<--- Original slogan (on the Fugio cent)
"We are one" <--- Original slogan (on the Fugio cent)
______________ <--- Your slogan here!

The Pledge of Allegiance could be returned to its original non-under-God version.
Or it could be shortened to....
"I promise to not be a traitor."
"Mind your business."
"In Americastan, we don't require loyalty oaths!" <--- My favoritek

"Buzz off"

 

[Brickjectivity]

You still do not get it, Those people who Written up the Constitution only believed in one God, which is the Christian God.

There would be no other reason for them to put in the Constitution restricting God from the very thing they believed in.

So what is your true Motive behind it?

His true motive? That question seems a little extreme and paranoid to me. I understand he has a different point of view. It doesn't mean he's a Russian spy.

 

[Twilight Hue]

There's been a paradigm shift over the last couple of decades. People are not viewing Christianity in terms of it's validity as it had once been in the past.

I would say religious imagery and symbolism in government buildings and properties were pretty much uncontested till only recently. More people are waking up and seeing the reality that these images and symbols no longer serve the purpose by which they were put there in the first place.

Religious imagery and symbols in government buildings had its place in history, but it's time to move on from these things.

 

[Brickjectivity]

You do know that many of the founding fathers were not Christians, right? Jefferson, in particular, mocked Christianity as a fable.

I don't think that matters. Its still fine to put pictures of influential figures on the walls of the court buildings. They are just carvings. Moses, Judge Blackstone, Abraham Lincoln...no difference.

 

[Faithofchristian]

They went out of their way to make it strictly illegal to endorse or show support for one religion over another. What more could you possibly want?

Those who Written up the Constitution only believed in one Religion and in only one God. Now why would they who was Christians want to endorse any other religion but Christianity.
That would be like Atheists endorsing Christianity, You got to be kidding

By the way, I never said anything about mentioning God. I am speaking to symbolism that is Christian.

 

[Faithofchristian]

Whilst the founders weren't all Christian, those that were not were Deists or Unitarians. which following the enlightenment, was very common amongst the intelligentsia of the time, both in Europe and the American colonies.
But which was perhaps far from normal for the common people, a vast majority of whom followed one Christian denomination or another.
People professing to be atheists or who followed other religions were a distant and insignificant minority.

Ok, Let's for say they were not Christian. Now why would a person who is not Christian sign their name to the Constitution which was written by christians.
That would be like having a Christian document and Atheists sign their name to it.
Are you freaking kidding me.

 

[Revoltingest]

You still do not get it, Those people who Written up the Constitution only believed in one God, which is the Christian God.

Not all....
The Founding Fathers, Deism, and Christianity | Founding Fathers

There would be no other reason for them to put in the Constitution restricting God from the very thing they believed in.

If they meant "God", they wouldn't have used "creator".
Also, if they wanted a Xian nation, we wouldn't have had the 1st Amendment.
Note also that they made it the very first one....top dog of them all.

So what is your true Motive behind it?

The rule of law, ie, the Constitution.
I interpret it thru the writings (eg, Federalist Papers) of the founders, ie, constitutional originalism.
Is that "true" enuf for ya, bub?

Would it bother you if they changed "God" to "Allah" in the money motto?
How about to "creator"?

 

[Faithofchristian]

Because saying "all men are created equal by a creator" Is not endorsing Christianity or putting one religion over another. So, while that might bother me, I don't think it is unconstitutional.

For what other reason would those people who Written up the Constitution, put All men are created equal by the creator, those men who signed their names to the Constitution were of Christian.

All your trying to do is turn twist around what those people stood for.

 

[Terrywoodenpic]

Ok, Let's for say they were not Christian. Now why would a person who is not Christian sign their name to the Constitution which was written by christians.
That would be like having a Christian document and Atheists sign their name to it.
Are you freaking kidding me.

Like any document it was arrived at by a consensus.
It contains what they could agree upon.
What they could not agree upon, was left out.

This is the reason there was a need for the large group of amendments that followed.

Today Laws are passed by men of many faiths and none. we do not call their documents either atheist or Christian. the Issues are decided on a majority basis..

 

[Faithofchristian]

Not all....
The Founding Fathers, Deism, and Christianity | Founding Fathers

If they meant "God", they wouldn't have used "creator".
Also, if they wanted a Xian nation, we wouldn't have had the 1st Amendment.
Note also that they made it the very first one....top dog of them all.

At the time everyone at that time understood what was ment by Creator, it's only Common sense to anyone of Christian would know exactly who the creator is.

You want people to believe that those people who believed in God would put restrictions of having God on Government buildings.



The rule of law, ie, the Constitution.
I interpret it thru the writings (eg, Federalist Papers) of the founders, ie, constitutional originalism.
Is that "true" enuf for ya, bub?

Would it bother you if they changed "God" to "Allah" in the money motto?
How about to "creator"?

 

[Faithofchristian]

Like any document it was arrived at by a consensus.
It contains what they could agree upon.
What they could not agree upon, was left out.

This is the reason there was a need for the large group of amendments that followed.

Today Laws are passed by men of many faiths and none. we do not call their documents either atheist or Christian. the Issues are decided on a majority basis..

Those people who Written up the Constitution were of Christian. Otherwise why would someone want to sign a document that they didn't believe in.

That's like an Atheists sign a document which is Christian base. Are you freaking kidding me.

 

[Faithofchristian]

Like any document it was arrived at by a consensus.
It contains what they could agree upon.
What they could not agree upon, was left out.

This is the reason there was a need for the large group of amendments that followed.

Today Laws are passed by men of many faiths and none. we do not call their documents either atheist or Christian. the Issues are decided on a majority basis..

Are you freaking kidding me, why would a person sign a document that they didn't believe in ?
If one of them didn't want the creator mention, then why would they sign a document that had something they didn't believe in.

 

[Faithofchristian]

Like any document it was arrived at by a consensus.
It contains what they could agree upon.
What they could not agree upon, was left out.

This is the reason there was a need for the large group of amendments that followed.

Today Laws are passed by men of many faiths and none. we do not call their documents either atheist or Christian. the Issues are decided on a majority basis..

It doesn't take a collage professor to figure out by reading the Constitution to figure out what they stood for and they were of Christian religion.

Let's for say, some of them that Written the Constitution were Atheists, now why would
An Atheist put all men are created equal by the creator. Go Figure.

Go ask any Atheists if they were to write up a document if they would mention God in their document ?

 

[Quintessence]

To answer this question, I think it helps to ask a parallel one: why might a fan of Star Wars decorate their spaces with Star Wars accouterments?

People like to decorate and infuse places with symbols and representations of things that are special and valued to them. We like to be surrounded by things we love and by things that give us comfort or make us smile. It's also a way of paying a nod of respect to those special things in our lives, and a way of putting it on display for others to enjoy too.

 

[Kemosloby]

You do know that many of the founding fathers were not Christians, right? Jefferson, in particular, mocked Christianity as a fable.

The rich don't like Jesus anymore than the porn addicts....