The Need For Christian Symbolism on Government Property

[Faithofchristian]

"The Statue of Liberty (Liberty Enlightening the World; French: La Liberté éclairant le monde) is a colossal neoclassical sculpture on Liberty Island in New York Harbor in New York City, in the United States. The copper statue, a gift from the people of France to the people of the United States, was designed by French sculptor Frédéric Auguste Bartholdi and built by Gustave Eiffel. The statue was dedicated on October 28, 1886.

The Statue of Liberty is a figure of a robed woman representing Libertas, a Roman goddess. She holds a torch above her head with her right hand, and in her left hand carries a tabula ansata inscribed in Roman numerals with "JULY IV MDCCLXXVI" (July 4, 1776), the date of the U.S. Declaration of Independence. A broken chain lies at her feet. The statue became an icon of freedom and of the United States, and was a welcoming sight to immigrants arriving from abroad.

According to the National Park Service, the idea for the Statue of Liberty was first proposed by Édouard René de Laboulaye the president of the French Anti-Slavery Society and a prominent and important political thinker of his time. The project is traced to a mid-1865 conversation between de Laboulaye, a staunch abolitionist and Frédéric Bartholdi, a sculptor. In after-dinner conversation at his home near Versailles, Laboulaye, an ardent supporter of the Union in the American Civil War, is supposed to have said: "If a monument should rise in the United States, as a memorial to their independence, I should think it only natural if it were built by united effort—a common work of both our nations."
Source:Wikipedia​

So what is the pointing you're trying to make, that liberty is a Christian concept?

.

I never said anything of the such, That the statue of liberty as being anything of Christian.

 

[columbus]

This is remarkable coming from a Trump supporter.

I guess you for got to mention the Statue of Liberty. What is the Statue of Liberty a symbol of?
The United States is the only Country in the world that says those that seek Liberty from oppression, give us your poor, and those who seek the pursuit of happiness.
We will give you Liberty.

Where do you suppose this all comes from?

The USA is a nation of immigrants. From the first Anglo settlers to the Africans brought in chains, to Irish and Chinese and German and Italian waves of poor immigrants, that's what Made America Great.
Those immigrants brought their cultures with them. From food and clothing styles, to music and art, to new words and philosophical beliefs, immigrants made us what we are. That's exactly what the Statue of Liberty is all about!
And they didn't just bring Negro Spiritual music and pasta. They built this country. They provided a huge reserve of cheap and disposable labor. This made some people extremely rich, but it also built our cities and railroads and factories and dams, grew the food and mined the coal and smelted the steel.
Those immigrants were consistently despised and abused and persecuted by the "nativists", who didn't want them here competing for jobs and such. But the government gave them the papers and legal recognition needed to work and assimilate and become part of the fabric of this nation. About all that you needed to get the equivalent of a green card and path to citizenship was a health inspection, so you didn't have tuberculosis or something. Anybody who could work was in.

That Made America Great.

Donald J Trump made ending all that a major plank in his election platform. He promised to deport the current wave of Hispanics and build a Wall to keep them out. He scared his supporters with threats of Muslims. He may not have torn down the Statue of Liberty, but he promised to make it irrelevant. A quaint relic from the olden days, before Americans were so deplorable.

I am not sure what is more breathtaking in your post, the lack of USA history or the raw hypocrisy.
Tom

 

[SkepticThinker]

I never said anything of the such, That the statue of liberty as being anything of Christian.

So what are you trying to say about it?

 

[Milton Platt]

People need symbols and ritual to support the narrative they're comfortable with, particularly if it has no actual objective support.

Pretty much. I don't have an issue myself with the religious symbols as long as the government supports the right for every other religion to also display their stuff in said places.
Yeah, I think it would be better if none of it was displayed on government property, but I don't see that happening.

 

[Faithofchristian]

This is remarkable coming from a Trump supporter.


The USA is a nation of immigrants. From the first Anglo settlers to the Africans brought in chains, to Irish and Chinese and German and Italian waves of poor immigrants, that's what Made America Great.
Those immigrants brought their cultures with them. From food and clothing styles, to music and art, to new words and philosophical beliefs, immigrants made us what we are. That's exactly what the Statue of Liberty is all about!
And they didn't just bring Negro Spiritual music and pasta. They built this country. They provided a huge reserve of cheap and disposable labor. This made some people extremely rich, but it also built our cities and railroads and factories and dams, grew the food and mined the coal and smelted the steel.
Those immigrants were consistently despised and abused and persecuted by the "nativists", who didn't want them here competing for jobs and such. But the government gave them the papers and legal recognition needed to work and assimilate and become part of the fabric of this nation. About all that you needed to get the equivalent of a green card and path to citizenship was a health inspection, so you didn't have tuberculosis or something. Anybody who could work was in.

That Made America Great.

Donald J Trump made ending all that a major plank in his election platform. He promised to deport the current wave of Hispanics and build a Wall to keep them out. He scared his supporters with threats of Muslims. He may not have torn down the Statue of Liberty, but he promised to make it irrelevant. A quaint relic from the olden days, before Americans were so deplorable.

I am not sure what is more breathtaking in your post, the lack of USA history or the raw hypocrisy.
Tom

Maybe you need to get the story straight, Trump said nothing about deporting all Hispanics.
What Trump said, deport those Hispanics who have a Criminal back ground and who are here Illegally.
If they want to be here Waite in line like all the Hispanics that came here legal

What makes those Hispanics who came here Illegal, more important than those Hispanics who waited in line for up to two years or more.

That goes for the same for anyone who wants to come here. Waite in line for your turn.

 

[Faithofchristian]

So what are you trying to say about it?

Maybe people need to look up and see the back ground of the architect of the Statue of Liberty, Frederic Auguste Bartholdi the Sculptor of the Statue of Liberty.

It may Surprise People. That's all I'm going to say. It Surprised me.

 

[Kelly of the Phoenix]

No one alive today should be blamed for slavery.

Except for the slavery that still continues, which sadly, it does.

What is Modern Slavery

Modern examples in the US

Where do you suppose this all comes from?

Why aren't we doing it now?

How's about letting Illegal immigrants come here, which was against the Constitution

How did Europeans get here in the first place? Did they ask permission from the Natives to enter legally?

But when people goes out Destroying other people's Property and hurting people that is not a peaceful assembly.

So if some yahoos rent land from the US and then don't pay their bills and instead camp in that area with guns and threaten law enforcement, should they be arrested?

But yet democrates just can't seem to let it go. Still trying after 11 Months to Impeach Trump.

There is not a single thing Trump has done so far to show he's qualified for the office. He can't even let go of the conflict of interest problems, much less all the blatantly immoral things he does. Impeaching him is the kindest thing we can do to both him and the nation.

Democrates are nothing but bunch of Spoiled brat kids. That can't get their way on things oh Wah,Wah.

You have spent sooooooo many posts whining about wanting your way about religious objects/references in government.

People will do whatever they can do to discredit the founding fathers on this.

Or we could read the actual texts they wrote instead of whitewashed history from some Social Studies textbook probably written by the KKK.

The founding fathers put forth the
1st Amendment to the Constitution to guarantee Religious People have the Free Exercise thereof. To Express their Religious beliefs.

Christian/Jewish/Muslim belief specifically condemns graven images. Why should we care about their religion when they don't?

Obama Administration, Sent Taxpayers money to Campaign to oust Israel's Prime Minister Netanyahu .

Let me guess: You think Trump, Neti, and Putin are all just really swell guys.

Your Right, But Whites shouldn't be blame for it all either.

But which race was in charge of the governments that allowed it?

 

[Faithofchristian]

Except for the slavery that still continues, which sadly, it does.

What is Modern Slavery

Modern examples in the US


Why aren't we doing it now?


How did Europeans get here in the first place? Did they ask permission from the Natives to enter legally?


So if some yahoos rent land from the US and then don't pay their bills and instead camp in that area with guns and threaten law enforcement, should they be arrested?


There is not a single thing Trump has done so far to show he's qualified for the office. He can't even let go of the conflict of interest problems, much less all the blatantly immoral things he does. Impeaching him is the kindest thing we can do to both him and the nation.


You have spent sooooooo many posts whining about wanting your way about religious objects/references in government.


Or we could read the actual texts they wrote instead of whitewashed history from some Social Studies textbook probably written by the KKK.


Christian/Jewish/Muslim belief specifically condemns graven images. Why should we care about their religion when they don't?


Let me guess: You think Trump, Neti, and Putin are all just really swell guys.


But which race was in charge of the governments that allowed it?

Your so funny that you got me ROFL

 

[Faithofchristian]

Except for the slavery that still continues, which sadly, it does.

What is Modern Slavery

Modern examples in the US


Why aren't we doing it now?


How did Europeans get here in the first place? Did they ask permission from the Natives to enter legally?


So if some yahoos rent land from the US and then don't pay their bills and instead camp in that area with guns and threaten law enforcement, should they be arrested?


There is not a single thing Trump has done so far to show he's qualified for the office. He can't even let go of the conflict of interest problems, much less all the blatantly immoral things he does. Impeaching him is the kindest thing we can do to both him and the nation.


You have spent sooooooo many posts whining about wanting your way about religious objects/references in government.


Or we could read the actual texts they wrote instead of whitewashed history from some Social Studies textbook probably written by the KKK.


Christian/Jewish/Muslim belief specifically condemns graven images. Why should we care about their religion when they don't?


Let me guess: You think Trump, Neti, and Putin are all just really swell guys.


But which race was in charge of the governments that allowed it?

First of all. I was a Democrate for 45 years and was a full fledge democrate Supporter, only until I saw what Obama stood for and lied to the American people. That's when I started to wake up how Corrupted the democratic party really was.

Back when Obama ran for president in 2007 Obama first came out saying he was muslim, and then Obama saw he was starting to lose, Then Obama came out saying, that he is Christian, he may haved fooled alot of people, but he sure didn't fool me.
There's a video that if you care to know, just put in your search engine --> video obama stated to be muslim
And there you hear right out of his own mouth.
Heck Obama's older brother turned out against Obama.
Of course the mainstream fake news media will tell you all this,all because the mainstream fake news is nothing but Criminals of Corruption themselves.

Well Hillary must haved thought Putin was a swell guy, to sale 20% of our Uranium to Putin.thereby put this country at risk and Obama done more to racially divide this country than any other president.
Obama put this country more in debt than all the previous presidents before him.

Obama let more illegal immigrants into this country, all the while black communitys are still in proverty. Why do suppose even with help of Obama Hillary still lost the African Americans votes.

When Obama left office, left this country in a 20 trillion dollars debt. Than when he took Office.

President Trump has got more Companies coming back into this country. Saved people jobs.
Unlike Hillary wanted to shut down the coal miners and put them out of work, When in fact the coal mines are the way those people made a living.

Hillary wanted to raise the taxes on the middle class people.
But hear her say it, she wanted to raise the taxes on the rich. Yeah sure right.
Hillarys going to raise the taxes on the rich. The rich are the ones who put donations into her clinton foundation.
That would be Hillary cutting off the hand that's feeding her clinton foundation.

And again Trumps doing tax cuts for the middle class people.
But have the Fake Mainstream News Media tell it. which are lies to get people all work up.
Democrates are scared knowing once the tax cuts goes into place, democrates are going to be in a bad way.

The only Reason Liberals are mad at Trump because they are No longer going to get a free Ride off of tax payers expense.

 

[Evangelicalhumanist]

In another post the following questions were asked.

1. Did you know there is a bible in the cornerstone of the Washington monument?
2. That there is scripture in the capitol building?
3. Statue of Moses on the supreme court building?
4. That both the House and Senate chambers prominently display "In God we trust" in their chambers?
5. The ten commandments can be found on over a half dozen public buildings in Washington?
6. Scripture at the Lincoln memorial?
7. 2 Huge bible's are on display at the library of congress?​

(I didn't bother to check any of them, but assume they're true.)

Besides the above mentioned items, "In god we trust" also appears on all our currency.

At Christmas we have a U.S. Capitol Christmas Tree

Nativity scenes are frequently erected on public property

The Ten Commandments are allowed on some government properties

While it might surprise some RF members, I'm not concerned with the legality of any of these, although I do question it. What I'm more interested in is the "why." Why do the religious, the vast majority being Christians, need these symbols of their faith on secular pieces of property? Would they forget they trust in their god if the words didn't appear on our quarters, nickles, and dimes? Is it not enough that their church has a nativity scene during Christmas? Are there not enough Christmas trees standing around town and on private property that one needs to be erected on the Capitol lawn? And what purpose does the display of the Ten Commandments serve "on over a half dozen public buildings in Washington?"

I know Christians believe these displays of their faith are quite appropriate, but what is this incredible need for them?

Why is it necessary to include the words "In God We Trust" on all our currency?

Why is it necessary that representations of Christmas be erected on public property?

Why is it necessary that images from the Old Testament appear on our government buildings?

And if they're not necessary then why do we allow them? Aren't churches and the homes of their parishioners adequate?


And PLEASE, no This is a Christian nation or America was founded on Christian principles therefore . . . . . If these are your best replies then save yourself the effort and don't bother posting.

.

I have been posting my heart-felt answer to this question for a very long time. It is my deeply-held view that a great deal of what people claim in their religious confessions is not actual, true belief -- not in the way that I believe in gravity when standing on the edge of a high rooftop, or physics when I consider touching the glowing red burner on my stove. Trust me, I believe those things with perfect faith!

Rather, from what I see of how "believers" of all kinds and religions behave, it appears pretty clear that it is more that they "believe they believe," but don't hold those beliefs at the same level that totally informs my behaviour as I get close to that roof edge.

Because I believe in gravity and heat so completely, I don't need to be reminded regularly. I don't need to go every week (let's make it Tuesday -- no other belief system has that day booked as "holy" I think) to go over the reasons I think I believe those things. But believers do -- they return every week to church, mosque, shrine, temple or whatever, to rehearse (which I think is better translated as "remind oneself") what it is they are supposed to believe they believe.

In that vein, it's hardly surprising that they'd want reminders on all sorts of other things. That sort of secondary belief is not like knowing, and those reminders are there to help the poor wretch try to keep himself or herself (or itself or zheself, or whatever) out of trouble in the context of the presumed "belief."

 

[Evangelicalhumanist]

Adding a thought, it's interesting to me that God is not mentioned on Canadian money (this is not quite true, see below), and Canada is a somewhat more secular society than the U.S. And yet, our crime rates are significantly lower than the more religious U.S. And go to the even more secular countries of northern Europe, and you'll find crime rates even lower.

It would appear that all those "reminders" of belief are not all that helpful, after all.

(Note: Canada's paper money contains no mention of God. However, all of our coins contain the letters -- after the name of the monarch -- "DGR" or in Latin "Dei Gratia Regina" (or Rex) -- by the grace of God Queen (or King). (Or some variant of that).

 

[Phil25]

I dont know about the others but the reason that there is a statue of Moses in the Supreme Court building is because he is one of the great lawgivers of history. SCOTUS also has statues of 17 other great lawgivers:
Menes, Hammurabi, Solomon, Lycurgus, Solon, Draco, Confucius, Octavian, Justinian, Mohammad, Charlemagne, King John of England, Louis IX, Hugo Grotius, William Blackstone, John Marshall,
and Napoleon Bonaparte.

 

[Evangelicalhumanist]

Back when Obama ran for president in 2007 Obama first came out saying he was muslim, and then Obama saw he was starting to lose, Then Obama came out saying, that he is Christian, he may haved fooled alot of people, but he sure didn't fool me.
There's a video that if you care to know, just put in your search engine --> video obama stated to be muslim
And there you hear right out of his own mouth.

This is completely false, and you should be ashamed of yourself for having said it without doing even the most trivial of checks.

The following is from Snopes FALSE: Obama Admits He Is a Muslim

"The video is actually a compendium of intercut, out-of-context statements taken from various interviews with Barack Obama in which he discussed Islam in general (as well as his childhood exposure to Islam), and from addresses delivered by President Obama to areas of the world with predominantly Muslim audiences for the purpose of “creat[ing] a better dialogue so that the Muslim world understands more effectively how the United States, but also how the West thinks about many of these difficult issues like terrorism, like democracy, to discuss the framework for what’s happened in Iraq and Afghanistan and our outreach to Iran, and also how we view the prospects for peace between the Israelis and the Palestinians.”

The primary sources used for this compilation were a June 2009 speech at Cairo University in Egypt, a September 2008 interview with George Stephanopoulos of ABC News, videotaped remarks for the Iranian New Year in March 2009, an April 2009 address to the Turkish Parliament, a June 2009 interview with Laura Haim for the French television station Canal Plus, and a June 2006 ‘Call to Renewal’ Keynote Address."

 

[DavidFirth]

Personally, I think the government should be totally free of Christians and Christian ideals. We can start by voting all Christians out of office, they're poofters, anyhow. Take down all the crosses, take God out of the pledge of allegiance, make ten anti-commandments. Let's eradicate this country of Christianity and ban all Christian activities and artifacts.

1. Thou shalt not believe in any God.
2. Love yourself, let your neighbor just do the best he can. And stay off me property!
3. Say whatever you want, it's just words.
4. Black Sabbath isnt holy but neither are any of our daughters, either.
5. Your parents don't know Jack. Obey Carl Sagan and no preaching allowed!
6. If you can get away with murder, what's stopping you? Kill the *******! OJ got away with it!
7. If it feels good, do it! Marriage don't mean nothing anyhow, just get a divorce later.
8. Steal, just dont get caught. Getting caught is an embarrassment to our society!
9. Lies are better than the truth 99% of the time. So lie you're *** off, just don't get caught!
10. This is the free for all commandment. Remember, you can get away with just about anything, so do it!

 

[Skwim]

I have been posting my heart-felt answer to this question for a very long time. It is my deeply-held view that a great deal of what people claim in their religious confessions is not actual, true belief -- not in the way that I believe in gravity when standing on the edge of a high rooftop, or physics when I consider touching the glowing red burner on my stove. Trust me, I believe those things with perfect faith!

Rather, from what I see of how "believers" of all kinds and religions behave, it appears pretty clear that it is more that they "believe they believe," but don't hold those beliefs at the same level that totally informs my behaviour as I get close to that roof edge.

Because I believe in gravity and heat so completely, I don't need to be reminded regularly. I don't need to go every week (let's make it Tuesday -- no other belief system has that day booked as "holy" I think) to go over the reasons I think I believe those things. But believers do -- they return every week to church, mosque, shrine, temple or whatever, to rehearse (which I think is better translated as "remind oneself") what it is they are supposed to believe they believe.

In that vein, it's hardly surprising that they'd want reminders on all sorts of other things. That sort of secondary belief is not like knowing, and those reminders are there to help the poor wretch try to keep himself or herself (or itself or zheself, or whatever) out of trouble in the context of the presumed "belief."

I think that having these symbols around can also function as a group hug. "Gee, just look, I'm among my own kind---cue warm glow--- Evidence for my god is everywhere I go."

.

 

[Faithofchristian]

This is completely false, and you should be ashamed of yourself for having said it without doing even the most trivial of checks.

The following is from Snopes FALSE: Obama Admits He Is a Muslim

"The video is actually a compendium of intercut, out-of-context statements taken from various interviews with Barack Obama in which he discussed Islam in general (as well as his childhood exposure to Islam), and from addresses delivered by President Obama to areas of the world with predominantly Muslim audiences for the purpose of “creat[ing] a better dialogue so that the Muslim world understands more effectively how the United States, but also how the West thinks about many of these difficult issues like terrorism, like democracy, to discuss the framework for what’s happened in Iraq and Afghanistan and our outreach to Iran, and also how we view the prospects for peace between the Israelis and the Palestinians.”

The primary sources used for this compilation were a June 2009 speech at Cairo University in Egypt, a September 2008 interview with George Stephanopoulos of ABC News, videotaped remarks for the Iranian New Year in March 2009, an April 2009 address to the Turkish Parliament, a June 2009 interview with Laura Haim for the French television station Canal Plus, and a June 2006 ‘Call to Renewal’ Keynote Address."

You say it's false, Why don't check it out for yourself then, you will hear Obama himself saying that he's a Muslim.
Why you can't even believe it when Obama himself professing to be a Muslim.

Put in your search engine
---> video obama professing Muslim
And hear Obama for yourself professing to being Muslim. Or are you to afraid to find out that you been lied to?

 

[Revoltingest]

You say it's false, Why don't check it out for yourself then, you will hear Obama himself saying that he's a Muslim.
Why you can't even believe it when Obama himself professing to be a Muslim.

Put in your search engine
---> video obama professing Muslim
And hear Obama for yourself professing to being Muslim. Or are you to afraid to find out that you been lied to?

The only legit video I've found which even remotely calls Obama's religion into question is this one...

What I see isn't the debunking of his claim of being a Xian....
it shows that without a teleprompter, he gets befuddled.

 

[SkepticThinker]

Maybe people need to look up and see the back ground of the architect of the Statue of Liberty, Frederic Auguste Bartholdi the Sculptor of the Statue of Liberty.

It may Surprise People. That's all I'm going to say. It Surprised me.

Or you could actually articulate a point for change. That would be awesome. Then we'd know what you're talking about.

 

[Faithofchristian]

The only legit video I've found which even remotely calls Obama's religion into question is this one...

What I see isn't the debunking of his claim of being a Xian....
it shows that without a teleprompter, he gets befuddled.

Maybe you should pull up this video in your search engine
video obama professing a muslim

 

[Faithofchristian]

Or you could actually articulate a point for change. That would be awesome. Then we'd know what you're talking about.

Like I said, Check out the life biography of
Frederic Auguste Bartholdi the Sculptor, architect, of the Statue of Liberty.