The Old Testament - Sell It To Me!

[Jayhawker Soule]

Your post will leads those who read it to believe John is somehow different and doesn't fit with the rest, as if 'other'.

Nevertheless, John is a bit different and, perhaps, a bit odd, but to each his own.

 

[Rival]

Nevertheless, John is a bit different and, perhaps, a bit odd, but to each his own.

Having studied the Gospels in my uni course, I've actually come to believe Luke is the odd one out for lacking atonement salvation via crucifixion. I'm probably in a minority though.

 

[SalixIncendium]

Which would be useful in countering Christian nonsense. Don’t tell me what I can post. If alternative views frighten you, that’s a You problem.

And if you can't speak to fellow members respectfully, that's a You problem.

 

[Firenze]

Which major world religion or popular philosophy doesn't borrow from or build on concepts from other religions, philosophies, cultures, etc.?

They all do. It’s how we know there is nothing unique in Christianity - other than the concept of “Worship me or be tortured for eternity.”

There's an undercurrent which really dislikes Johannine theology for some reason, which is why it makes me flare up. There's an idea, I think, that if you take John away the whole of Christianity collapses. I have a visceral reaction to this because it's underhanded. John's writings get a lot of hate from non-Christians because it doesn't 'match' the other Gospels and Christians often use it as a proof text, so a lot of people hone in on John and try to make out it's false or a corrupted understanding of Christianity. I've seen some Muslims do this too.

It might not be down to that, but there's a lot of John hatred.

Perhaps it’s due to how John demonizes the Jews more than any other gospel. Mel Gibsons ‘Passion’ illustrates John quite well, with all the long, crooked nosed, evil Jews that ‘killed Jesus’ it portrays. That’s the ‘Christian belief’ of Mel that he acquired from the loving church he and his father attended.
And why is it the John 3:16 is the most quoted verse in the Bible, while the threat in 3:18 is ignored?

 

[Secret Chief]

Judaism, Christianity, and Islam, which you choose to selectively ignore.

Huh? I think I've started one more thread (this one) about Christianity than Judaism and Islam.
How am I selectively ignoring?

 

[Firenze]

And if you can't speak to fellow members respectfully, that's a You problem.

So you were offended when he called my post ‘crap’ then….

 

[Rival]

They all do. It’s how we know there is nothing unique in Christianity - other than the concept of “Worship me or be tortured for eternity.”

Perhaps it’s due to how John demonizes the Jews more than any other gospel. Mel Gibsons ‘Passion’ illustrates John quite well, with all the long, crooked nosed, evil Jews that ‘killed Jesus’ it portrays. That’s the ‘Christian belief’ of Mel that he acquired from the loving church he and his father attended.
And why is it the John 3:16 is the most quoted verse in the Bible, while the threat in 3:18 is ignored?

One Rabbi I used to listen to a lot believes Matthew is most anti-Semitic.

But most if not all ancient texts contain some level of hatred or what we'd now call bigotry. We learn to read the texts with new understandings and accept that they're not going to match what we believe in whichever century it is.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

I'm probably in a minority though.

I never argue with a born [yet] again Christian nee heathen nee Noahide recently ensconced in a uni course.

 

[Rival]

I never argue with a born [yet] again Christian nee heathen nee Noahide recently ensconced in a uni course.

I'm a second year and really enjoying it.

It has been good so far.

But it was in fact that Rabbi I mentioned who pointed this out about Luke. He's right.

 

[SalixIncendium]

So you were offended when he called my post ‘crap’ then….

I don't get offended. And he's not a he.

And unless your post is inherent to your character, you're comparing apples to oranges.

 

[Secret Chief]

But most if not all ancient text contain some level of hatred or what we'd now call bigotry.

Don't spill your tea but I think there's some overreach in your generalisation there.

 

[Firenze]

You are trying to accuse Christians of co-opting as though this makes Christianity invalid.

This is false information. As pointed out to you, all religions do this. To say this as though this makes Christianity out to be fraudulent is false.

Then saying that only Johannine texts use it as though it's in some way 'apart' from some other Christianity.

Your post will lead those who read it to believe John is somehow different and doesn't fit with the rest, as if 'other'.

This is false information, as Christians have agreed on the 4 Gospels for centuries and had no problem with John.

Christian co-opting is hardly what makes Christianity invalid, and your sensitivity to my comment is misplaced as it reads more into it than is there. Again, a You problem.

 

[shunyadragon]

All Christians believe in the Logos, it's not a matter of contention.

OK, that was not my point.

No, again you misinterpreted.

Christians do not believe the Bible was dictated by God.

Many Christians believe the Bible is largely dictated by God. The Pentateuch is believed to dictated by God through Moses and literally true,

Please stop misrepresenting me because you dislike Abrahamic religions and fail to understand them.

I presented facts of Christianity in post #60 and you failed to respond. It is you that is selectively considering scripture and history to justify your agenda.

You are at times extremely aggressive when others post different views.

 

[Rival]

Don't spill your tea but I think there's some overreach in your generalisation there.

There could be, but I don't expect to find texts 1000+ years old to agree with my version of right and wrong.

 

[Rival]

Many Christians believe the Bible is largely dictated by God. The Pentateuch is believed to dictated by God through Moses and literally true,

No they don't. I don't know which Christians you are used to but I'm in Europe and I have hardly come across this except from US fundamentalists. Most believe the Documentary Hypothesis. This is what is taught.

presented facts of Christianity in post #60 and you failed to respond. It is you that is selectively considering scripture and history to justify your agenda.

You are at times extremely aggressive when others post different views.

The post wasn't aimed at me.

Yes, I can be, when people post the same thing over and over, like your insisting that most Christians believe the Bible to be literally true. This is false. You're taking the low-hanging fruit and applying it to all Christians.

 

[Secret Chief]

There could be, but I don't expect to find texts 1000+ years old to agree with my version of right and wrong.

Each to their own but I can't think I've been in much disagreement on this with the Buddhist and Daoist texts I've read. Ideas of right and wrong will always vary between individuals, whatever the century, imo.

 

[Rival]

Each to their own but I can't think I've been in much disagreement on this with the Buddhist and Daoist texts I've read. Ideas of right and wrong will always vary between individuals, whatever the century, imo.

I'm sure there are some folks at odds with 'love thy neighbour' out there. Lol.

 

[Link]

I'm sure there are some folks at odds with 'love thy neighbour' out there. Lol.

I only don't disagree with it if my neighbor is hot. /kidding

 

[Secret Chief]

I'm sure there are some folks at odds with 'love thy neighbour' out there. Lol.

Exactly! The Buddha apparently refused to enforce vegetarianism in his (sangha) community. Sheesh, kill the Buddha.

 

[shunyadragon]

No they don't. I don't know which Christians you are used to but I'm in Europe and I have hardly come across this except from US fundamentalists. Most believe the Documentary Hypothesis. This is what is taught.

In the USA ~30% Christians believe in a version of a literal Pentateuch including Intelligent Design. Christian fundamentalist evangelism is dominating the third world. South Korea is know teaching Intelligent Design in the as part of the science curriculum. There are many Fundamentalist Churches that teach this only such as: Many Baptist Churches, Seventh Day Adventist, Jehovah Witnesses, and many independent churches and colleges,

The polls cited below reflect the whole population at 30% believe in a literal Genesis God created human in present form. If you remove the other religions which believe in evolution the percentage of Christians believing in a literal Genesis increase. Christins make up 74% qnd non-religious make up 14%. other religions make up the balance.

If you are aware there are many on this forum arguing for a literal Pentateuch here.. The authors of the NT believed in a literal Pentateuch, which has been the overwhelming dominant view of the Church Fathers and Christianity up until the 19th century,

Also the dominant belief in the Islamic world is a literal Pentateuch and Intelligent Design.

and rejecting science.
The post wasn't aimed at me.

My discussion here concerns the predominant nature and beliefs of Christianity in history and today and nothing t do with what you believe. As far as the diverse conflicting divisions in Christianity you could believe in many divergent versions.

Yes, I can be, when people post the same thing over and over, like your insisting that most Christians believe the Bible to be literally true. This is false. You're taking the low-hanging fruit and applying it to all Christians.

It is true as described above and . . .

In recent polls about 30% of Americans believe in a literal Genesis and human were Created in their present form.

The Evolution of Pew Research Center’s Survey Questions About the Origins and Development of Life on Earth

Measuring public opinion on evolution has never been an easy task for survey researchers.

www.pewresearch.org

As a result of the different