The only solution is to love all mankind

[RestlessSoul]

We are talking about a revamping of at least a part of the education system worldwide here. That no matter which religion, race or nationality it becomes compulsory to teach that all humanity are brothers and sisters. This is not what is taught at all in many countries which is why there is demonising and terrorism not to mention wars increasing.

What we are taught is what we become.

I agree completely with the value of teaching love and tolerance to generations yet to come. But the suggestion that this should be made compulsory raises question, by whose authority?

 

[RestlessSoul]

How do you stop violent people? I'ver asked before and you have no answer. Those of us here are not the problem, so why post this here unless you have a way to convince those who are violent?

“Those of us here” are not immune to prejudice, anger or cruelty, especially to those we characterise as the enemy. Granted, most of us express those impulses with words not weapons, but then words often are weapons, are they not?

 

[RestlessSoul]

How do you teach someone to love unconditionally?

By example, I’d have thought.

If a few more Christian’s would follow Christ’s example, that might be a good start.

 

[sayak83]

Baha’is don’t really get involved in negative things like protests. For example instead of being ‘anti-racist’ Baha’is will deal with that by promoting the oneness of humanity or ‘black lives matter as ‘racial harmony’. So instead of being against darkness Baha’is will use light.

I have bookmarked this response. It is very revealing and would be useful whenever in future you start yet another thread about how all folks should be or do X,Yand Z.

 

[loverofhumanity]

Our countries, the U.S. and Australia, were the tyrants and oppressors. What right did our European ancestors have to take the land and kill or put the native people on reservations?

In the U.S. what would have been done about racism if people didn't rise up and protest?

And, since Baha'is don't do protest marches, what would the Baha'is have recommended to Gandhi to do against the colonial British rule?

And right now, what do Baha'is recommend the world do about Gaza and Ukraine? And what would the Baha'i Faith recommend the U.S. do about all the people at the Southern border trying to get in? Let them in or send them back? And what about the ones that crossed illegally?

Since protests are the dark and negative way to do it, what is the way of the "light"? What is the right way, the Baha'i way to do it?

Let me guess... teach them that we are all one and that should fix the problem.

Baha’u’llah said that all the nations need to come together and to consult on how to establish peace. That time is fast approaching. Could happen any day but things will have to get a lot worse first.

The time must come when the imperative necessity for the holding of a vast, an all-embracing assemblage of men will be universally realized. The rulers and kings of the earth must needs attend it, and, participating in its deliberations, must consider such ways and means as will lay the foundations of the world's Great Peace amongst men. Such a peace demandeth that the Great Powers should resolve, for the sake of the tranquillity of the peoples of the earth, to be fully reconciled among themselves. Should any king take up arms against another, all should unitedly arise and prevent him. If this be done, the nations of the world will no longer require any armaments, except for the purpose of preserving the security of their realms and of maintaining internal order within their territories. This will ensure the peace and composure of every people, government and nation.
Bahá’u’lláh, Gleanings from the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 248

 

[danieldemol]

Baha’u’llah said that all the nations need to come together and to consult on how to establish peace. That time is fast approaching. Could happen any day but things will have to get a lot worse first.

The time must come when the imperative necessity for the holding of a vast, an all-embracing assemblage of men will be universally realized. The rulers and kings of the earth must needs attend it, and, participating in its deliberations, must consider such ways and means as will lay the foundations of the world's Great Peace amongst men. Such a peace demandeth that the Great Powers should resolve, for the sake of the tranquillity of the peoples of the earth, to be fully reconciled among themselves. Should any king take up arms against another, all should unitedly arise and prevent him. If this be done, the nations of the world will no longer require any armaments, except for the purpose of preserving the security of their realms and of maintaining internal order within their territories. This will ensure the peace and composure of every people, government and nation.
Bahá’u’lláh, Gleanings from the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 248

But how is that to be done when in my view various rulers wish to impose conflicting theocracies on us, and why should we even accept theocracy at all given that the human rights of minorities seem to prosper better in the best examples of secular social democracy than in theocracy?

 

[CG Didymus]

But how is that to be done when in my view various rulers wish to impose conflicting theocracies on us, and why should we even accept theocracy at all given that the human rights of minorities seem to prosper better in the best examples of secular social democracy than in theocracy?

So, Baha'u'llah recommends that all the nations consult on how to establish peace. As if they are all going to agree. But then he says that if some king takes up arms against another, that all the other nations should rise up against that king and prevent him? How? By asking politely for him to stop? Or by military force?

In his next sentence, he says that if that is done the nations will no longer need armaments? What? How did they stop this king then? Because I doubt that asking him nicely would have worked. They probably would have had to have a superior military with superior weapons. But, let's pretend, now that the king was defeated, Baha'u'llah thinks that the nations will no longer need weapons? No other king will ever rise up? And even if it's with spears and clubs, it is still weapons. And what will the other nations use? And then it is assuming that only one king will rise up. What if it's a group of nations with a large military and a lot of weapons?

Baha'is aren't great on the details. Just like with this thread... all we have to do is teach unconditional love for all people and are problems will be over. And if someone refuses to love everyone, all the others should rise up and beat the crap out of them until they do. But do it in a loving and nice way.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

What? How did they stop this king then?

Baha'is aren't great on the details.

So full of doubt CG. Enough details have been given to do what is required. The details are available in the Writings.

Baha'u'llah said "Immerse yourselves in the ocean of My words, that ye may unravel its secrets, and discover all the pearls of wisdom that lie hid in its depths." If one does not, they will always have doubts.

Here is some of the details, I put in bold about how rogue governments/peoples will be delt with.

"..... The unity of the human race, as envisaged by Bahá’u’lláh, implies the establishment of a world commonwealth in which all nations, races, creeds and classes are closely and permanently united, and in which the autonomy of its state members and the personal freedom and initiative of the individuals that compose them are definitely and completely safeguarded. This commonwealth must, as far as we can visualize it, consist of a world legislature, whose members will, as the trustees of the whole of mankind, ultimately control the entire resources of all the component nations, and will enact such laws as shall be required to regulate the life, satisfy the needs and adjust the relationships of all races and peoples. A world executive, backed by an international Force, will carry out the decisions arrived at, and apply the laws enacted by, this world legislature, and will safeguard the organic unity of the whole commonwealth. A world tribunal will adjudicate and deliver its compulsory and final verdict in all and any disputes that may arise between the various elements constituting this universal system. A mechanism of world inter-communication will be devised, embracing the whole planet, freed from national hindrances and restrictions, and functioning with marvellous swiftness and perfect regularity. A world metropolis will act as the nerve center of a world civilization, the focus towards which the unifying forces of life will converge and from which its energizing influences will radiate. A world language will either be invented or chosen from among the existing languages and will be taught in the schools of all the federated nations as an auxiliary to their mother tongue. A world script, a world literature, a uniform and universal system of currency, of weights and measures, will simplify and facilitate intercourse and understanding among the nations and races of mankind. In such a world society, science and religion, the two most potent forces in human life, will be reconciled, will coöperate, and will harmoniously develop. The press will, under such a system, while giving full scope to the expression of the diversified views and convictions of mankind, cease to be mischievously manipulated by vested interests, whether private or public, and will be liberated from the influence of contending governments and peoples. The economic resources of the world will be organized, its sources of raw materials will be tapped and fully utilized, its markets will be coördinated and developed, and the distribution of its products will be equitably regulated...."

From The World Order of Bahá’u’lláh

The website of the worldwide Bahá’í community

www.bahai.org

One of these things has happened, many of these things were done, but no power given to enable enforcement. The time is approaching when the world will be compelled to act globally in the manner mentioned above.

Regards Tony

 

[CG Didymus]

The unity of the human race, as envisaged by Bahá’u’lláh, implies the establishment of a world commonwealth in which all nations, races, creeds and classes are closely and permanently united, and in which the autonomy of its state members and the personal freedom and initiative of the individuals that compose them are definitely and completely safeguarded.

So presto... all nations and people are closely united? The autonomy of the state members and the personal freedom of individuals are safeguarded? How? What are the details of how you get to that stage?

This commonwealth must, as far as we can visualize it, consist of a world legislature, whose members will, as the trustees of the whole of mankind, ultimately control the entire resources of all the component nations, and will enact such laws as shall be required to regulate the life, satisfy the needs and adjust the relationships of all races and peoples.

And we're going to put our trust in these members of this world legislature? I don't know about Australia, but in the U.S. not everybody trusts the legislature or the Presidents or the Supreme Court. Only a percentage of the people vote, and out of those that do vote, the winner only has to get more than half of them on his or her side to win. So, what are the details on how these members of this world legislature going to get elected?

A world executive, backed by an international Force, will carry out the decisions arrived at, and apply the laws enacted by, this world legislature, and will safeguard the organic unity of the whole commonwealth. A world tribunal will adjudicate and deliver its compulsory and final verdict in all and any disputes that may arise...

Backed by what was that? An international force? Like with people with guns and bombs and missiles? But the rest of the world is going to be disarmed? So, if just by chance things go wrong with this world legislature, how is anybody going to stop them? Or is that not a detail you're concerned with, because by then everybody will be unconditionally loving one another?

Yes, you've given some details. Are there anymore? Oh, I've got one, what will the supreme judges do with people that are not unconditionally loving others? It seems like the whole system depends on all people being on board with that. You can't force them to be loving, but you can't let them just do unloving things, can you? Geez, so many details. Is there a Baha'i answer to that?

 

[Nakosis]

By example, I’d have thought.

If a few more Christian’s would follow Christ’s example, that might be a good start.

How'd that work out for Jesus?

 

[osgart]

Today humanity is beset with many strifes, conflicts and wars and I believe that the only solution to ending these conflicts over time is for all people to be educated in the home, school, university and workplace to love all humanity unconditionally. It will take time but it is the only ideology which I firmly believe can defeat war, hatred, prejudice and terrorism because it has been proven that over time peace treaties, pacts and covenants eventually fail and war re-emerges unless there is true peace between individuals.

I‘m claiming this to be the main solution to ending war so it is a debate. What do you think?

You have a problem of evil. Evil doesn't respond well to love. It has no remorse, nor pity, no care, and an arrogance that breeds hatred. It looks in the faces of love with contempt. It laughs in the face of love. It murderers with false causes, it loves its lies, and pittances. Arrogance rises to power for its own self gratification. It destroys those who are of no use, of opposition, and any resisters. It stops at nothing for its own pleasure and gain. On the spectrum of arrogance it starts out greedy, and ends up destructive.

The only way to fight evil is in knowing what is truly good, truly wise and what is truly real, and existent. No small task. Blindness, and false truths, ignorance and lies happen. There's many grey areas to life, many unknowns. Each generation is a new battle, new situation, a new ending, and beginning.

Successes and failures are passed down generation to generation, and one always has to fight to progress, or stabilize, or overcome oppression and tragedy, horrors happen, victories, and defeats happen in an endless cycle.

A lot of people fall into grey areas between good and evil. On one extreme is true love, and on the other is hell bent destruction of innocence. Today in some places you hear how love is dead, and no one believes in that junk no more. In many places people make civilization happen. Some people are born destitute of advantages, others have wellsprings of good influences, and advantages.
From the most destitute situations, to the most wonderful of places, good and evil spectrums play out.

It's not enough to say love everybody. Love has to be defined carefully. You must be talking about the love of enemies, and mercy and forgiveness. How much does anyone know about the causes and effects of loving thy enemies, and practicing mercy and forgiveness?

At some point true love cannot be a helpless doormat. At some point true love must be extremely dangerous to those who choose wickedness. OTOH it takes a lot of wisdom, a lot of reasonability, intelligence, and skill to deal with extremes of destructive behavior.

Ideally people would be highly charitable to each other and all problems would melt away. Realistically how much does the human race actually know about each other? To actually fight the destructive extremes one has to be willing to fight and risk their lives to the utmost. Others have to have the courage to build society. To effectively battle evil one has to risk life and death.

Fear, and consequences can deter a lot of people. Human laws that are necessary and effective were placed there to put fear and consequence into the hearts of those who would violate others, or worse.

What exactly do people need to know about love and what evidence do we have that that love is the answer for everybody? So that everyone gets an education on what it means in real terms.

 

[RestlessSoul]

How'd that work out for Jesus?

In terms of getting his message across? Pretty well, I’d have thought.

Given that the religion which emerged from his teaching has outlasted the Roman Empire by several centuries, you’d have to say it worked out better for him than for his persecutors.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

So presto... all nations and people are closely united? The autonomy of the state members and the personal freedom of individuals are safeguarded? How? What are the details of how you get to that stage?

And we're going to put our trust in these members of this world legislature? I don't know about Australia, but in the U.S. not everybody trusts the legislature or the Presidents or the Supreme Court. Only a percentage of the people vote, and out of those that do vote, the winner only has to get more than half of them on his or her side to win. So, what are the details on how these members of this world legislature going to get elected?

Backed by what was that? An international force? Like with people with guns and bombs and missiles? But the rest of the world is going to be disarmed? So, if just by chance things go wrong with this world legislature, how is anybody going to stop them? Or is that not a detail you're concerned with, because by then everybody will be unconditionally loving one another?

Yes, you've given some details. Are there anymore? Oh, I've got one, what will the supreme judges do with people that are not unconditionally loving others? It seems like the whole system depends on all people being on board with that. You can't force them to be loving, but you can't let them just do unloving things, can you? Geez, so many details. Is there a Baha'i answer to that?

The time will come, I need not answer more than that at this time.

The mindset of this age will change, it will be subdued by catastrophic events. The details to the plan given will be worked out after these events.

People will be happy to give National Sovereignty over to an elected world body, where every Nation gets a voice and every nation decides upon the required response to subdue a rouge Nation.

Regards Tony

 

[loverofhumanity]

You have a problem of evil. Evil doesn't respond well to love. It has no remorse, nor pity, no care, and an arrogance that breeds hatred. It looks in the faces of love with contempt. It laughs in the face of love. It murderers with false causes, it loves its lies, and pittances. Arrogance rises to power for its own self gratification. It destroys those who are of no use, of opposition, and any resisters. It stops at nothing for its own pleasure and gain. On the spectrum of arrogance it starts out greedy, and ends up destructive.

The only way to fight evil is in knowing what is truly good, truly wise and what is truly real, and existent. No small task. Blindness, and false truths, ignorance and lies happen. There's many grey areas to life, many unknowns. Each generation is a new battle, new situation, a new ending, and beginning.

Successes and failures are passed down generation to generation, and one always has to fight to progress, or stabilize, or overcome oppression and tragedy, horrors happen, victories, and defeats happen in an endless cycle.

A lot of people fall into grey areas between good and evil. On one extreme is true love, and on the other is hell bent destruction of innocence. Today in some places you hear how love is dead, and no one believes in that junk no more. In many places people make civilization happen. Some people are born destitute of advantages, others have wellsprings of good influences, and advantages.
From the most destitute situations, to the most wonderful of places, good and evil spectrums play out.

It's not enough to say love everybody. Love has to be defined carefully. You must be talking about the love of enemies, and mercy and forgiveness. How much does anyone know about the causes and effects of loving thy enemies, and practicing mercy and forgiveness?

At some point true love cannot be a helpless doormat. At some point true love must be extremely dangerous to those who choose wickedness. OTOH it takes a lot of wisdom, a lot of reasonability, intelligence, and skill to deal with extremes of destructive behavior.

Ideally people would be highly charitable to each other and all problems would melt away. Realistically how much does the human race actually know about each other? To actually fight the destructive extremes one has to be willing to fight and risk their lives to the utmost. Others have to have the courage to build society. To effectively battle evil one has to risk life and death.

Fear, and consequences can deter a lot of people. Human laws that are necessary and effective were placed there to put fear and consequence into the hearts of those who would violate others, or worse.

What exactly do people need to know about love and what evidence do we have that that love is the answer for everybody? So that everyone gets an education on what it means in real terms.

The problem as I see it is us. We all want a quick fix. Even religious people are amongst the most superstitious thinking Christ returning or the Mahdi in Islam will fix things up. We live in complete denial. To fix our civilisation up my religion tells me it will take humans centuries to create a better world. This flies in the face of all those who expect some sort of ‘entitlement’ for their beliefs and is so unrealistic. It will take centuries and centuries of hard work and effort to make a better world and one main reason why is that billions of people are waiting for something to magically happen so are not working towards that better world which is why it will take so long. Things like a just system has to be established, worldwide human rights etc.

 

[Nakosis]

In terms of getting his message across? Pretty well, I’d have thought.

Given that the religion which emerged from his teaching has outlasted the Roman Empire by several centuries, you’d have to say it worked out better for him than for his persecutors.

The point wasn't about getting the message out. The point was whether the message ended war and greed.
If it had been effective, you wouldn't be here still trying to get the message of unconditional love across.
The idea of unconditional love doesn't work. The message has been out for at least two thousand years right?
How long is it going to take for folks to realize that it's ineffective?

 

[loverofhumanity]

I agree completely with the value of teaching love and tolerance to generations yet to come. But the suggestion that this should be made compulsory raises question, by whose authority?

My understanding is that future societies won’t be authoritarian but consultative. Gradually as it becomes clear over time that extremist forms of education lead to things like wars and prejudice, society will choose a form of education which protects it from these prejudices. Nothing will be forced on anyone. It will be a decision arrived through consultation. Different forms of education will be tried and the one which succeeds in creating harmony and peace will likely be the one adopted.

 

[loverofhumanity]

In todays world it can only work

The point wasn't about getting the message out. The point was whether the message ended war and greed.
If it had been effective, you wouldn't be here still trying to get the message of unconditional love across.
The idea of unconditional love doesn't work. The message has been out for at least two thousand years right?
How long is it going to take for folks to realize that it's ineffective?

If that love be extended to all humankind. That means dealing with our prejudices. It’s easy yet has been made to seem impossible. But this impossibility only applies to those with vested interests. We can broaden our vision and put humanity first just like we did to put our nation first. We have the mechanisms to have a world neighbourhood and world citizenship making all humans and their rights protected under one universal constitution. This is the next stage in human evolution we are struggling with, to overcome our limited vision and have a world vision of all people as members of one human family. But it requires us to accept unconditionally all humanity as one. That no race, religion or nation is superior to another. We have evolved from the tribe to the nation over centuries so why not one world community?

 

[osgart]

The problem as I see it is us. We all want a quick fix. Even religious people are amongst the most superstitious thinking Christ returning or the Mahdi in Islam will fix things up. We live in complete denial. To fix our civilisation up my religion tells me it will take humans centuries to create a better world. This flies in the face of all those who expect some sort of ‘entitlement’ for their beliefs and is so unrealistic. It will take centuries and centuries of hard work and effort to make a better world and one main reason why is that billions of people are waiting for something to magically happen so are not working towards that better world which is why it will take so long. Things like a just system has to be established, worldwide human rights etc.

I see that on one end of things people are morally relative, and can't agree on moral facts. It's like shifting sands, there's no foundation. Blindness, and ignorance paralyze people from contributing to worthy causes. People also invest in religious cure alls that go nowhere.

There's no orientation towards the actual causes and effects of chosen moralities, and ethics. On one hand some people say there's no free will, no moral responsibility, and everything is hard determined by genetics and environment. That helps no one. On the other extreme some religions demand submission, or imply ultimatums and submission to moralities that are not proven to help, but actually do harm.

No one is even getting up to bat at establishing what needs to be done because there's no clear cut agreement, and people don't even recognize simple moral facts. Utopias don't exist. We are all born into battles fighting to survive, from all kinds of different angles, predicaments, situations, and plights. Who actually sees reality in truth the way it really is? Few and far between.

Another thing you can't reason with evil. Love them all you want, they'll only take, use, and abuse, and destroy. Evil don't want the light of truth whatsoever. They see things their way.

The lost, the blind, the afflicted, the naive, the ignorant, the evil, and the good, they all see things their way. Not everybody has the same opportunities to make a positive difference in life.

 

[RestlessSoul]

The point wasn't about getting the message out. The point was whether the message ended war and greed.
If it had been effective, you wouldn't be here still trying to get the message of unconditional love across.
The idea of unconditional love doesn't work. The message has been out for at least two thousand years right?
How long is it going to take for folks to realize that it's ineffective?

Give up on love if you want. Me, I have seen it’s redeeming power, I know that it’s effective, and I have no intention of giving up on it.

 

[Nakosis]

Give up on love if you want. Me, I have seen it’s redeeming power, I know that it’s effective, and I have no intention of giving up on it.

Not just love, the OP is about unconditional love.
Nothing wrong with love but unconditional love is an unrealistic expectation.