The OT today

[Shermana]

Does it still apply today? No. Why? Because times and world conditions change. Is it really important that we don't eat pork anymore? Will we lose our salvation if we do not perform the proper purification after touching a dead animal? Not really!

So when God said that it was for ALL generations of the House of Israel, that it was for Perpetual, he was just kidding around.

When Jesus said not one iota of the Law would ever be made void, he was really just pulling everyone's leg.

 

[CMike]

The point here is what standard will classify you as good and good enough to enter heaven. To a Jew like you, it is the Mosaic Law which governs. To a gentile like me, it is the Law in our hearts which governs.

Humans (Jews or not) nowadays can hardly keep any Law, because this is not practical in such a modern world/society we built that we can keep something like the Torah. So no one is good and good enough when Law is used as a standard to judge. God foresaw this and thus granted us the New Covenant. We can still try to do good as we'd like to. God on the other hand will do the rest to save us from the moment when we fail.

That's basically what Christianity would like to say.

The law in your heart can mean anything. If the law can mean everything it means nothing.

How about if your heart say it's okay murder, to steal, to committ adulterly, etc.

G-D did it right the first time in the Torah. G-D doesn't make mistakes.

Are you implying he did?

 

[Pegg]

Do the laws and whatnot in the OT apply to us in today's society?

If you say that some of them apply while others don't, please provide a method by which I can determine whether a particular law/instruction from the OT applies today without having to ask you regarding that specific example.

simple answer is no.

They were specific for the time and people to whom they were written.

The scritpures say law is written for lawless people. 1Timothy 1:8 'Now we know that the Law is fine if one applies it properly,* 9 recognizing that law is made, not for a righteous man, but for those who are lawless

Jesus teaching is for mankind to 'love' God and neighbour from the heart. If they do, then they will not be lawless because their actions will be governed by love and if a person is governed by love, they do not transgress Gods law as stated at Romans:
Romans 13:9 For the law code, “You must not commit adultery, you must not murder, you must not steal, you must not covet,” and whatever other commandment there is, is summed up in this saying: “You must love your neighbor as yourself.” 10 Love does not work evil to one’s neighbor; therefore, love is the law’s fulfillment.

And Jesus gave his followers a new law which superceeds the mosaic law:
John 13:34 'I am giving you a new commandment, that you love one another; just as I have loved you,+ you also love one another


Christians are under the law of Christ which is to 'love' your neighbour as yourself. By following this one commandment, we are no longer 'lawless' individuals in need of the mosaic law.

 

[Shermana]

Keep in mind that Pegg believes it's perfectly lawful for a Christian brother to marry his literal sister.

Carry on.

 

[Pegg]

Keep in mind that Pegg believes it's perfectly lawful for a Christian brother to marry his literal sister.

Carry on.

you have a funny way of reading into things

 

[Shermana]

you have a funny way of reading into things

http://www.religiousforums.com/forum/3533061-post35.html

 

[psychoslice]

Your understanding is very poor.

I am sorry I am not brain washed to believe as you do, I see what is there because I have no beliefs, I have no preconceived idea's about what I should believe, I just see what is and what I see isn't very pretty.

 

[Shermana]

I am sorry I am not brain washed to believe as you do, I see what is there because I have no beliefs, I have no preconceived idea's about what I should believe, I just see what is and what I see isn't very pretty.

Who says the truth is supposed to be pretty?

How do you know you have not been brainwashed by one source of thought or another?

How do you know that a belief that the Metaphysics of the Torah is correct is necessarily "brain washed"?

 

[Akivah]

Except {sic} the 7 laws that were given to Noach which apply to everyone.

We Jews obviously know that the Noahide Laws apply to everyone. But according to Christians, none of G-d's Laws apply anymore. And according to non-theists, nothing in the bible is applicable.

 

[psychoslice]

Who says the truth is supposed to be pretty?

How do you know you have not been brainwashed by one source of thought or another?

How do you know that a belief that the Metaphysics of the Torah is correct is necessarily "brain washed"?

Anything that is written as truth is not truth, you cannot write of truth, you can only be it, experience it, live in it. Of course this is how i see it through my own inner experience, not someone's hearsay, and that is what we all should be doing finding the truth within, not in some old book that could have been written by god knows who lol.

 

[DavyCrocket2003]

So when God said that it was for ALL generations of the House of Israel, that it was for Perpetual, he was just kidding around.

When Jesus said not one iota of the Law would ever be made void, he was really just pulling everyone's leg.

I think fulfilling a law is different than making it void. The purpose of the law was fulfilled in leading up to the coming of the ultimate sin offering: Jesus Christ. Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfill. The Law of Moses was given to prepare us and to bring us to Christ.

 

[Shermana]

Anything that is written as truth is not truth, you cannot write of truth, you can only be it, experience it, live in it. Of course this is how i see it through my own inner experience, not someone's hearsay, and that is what we all should be doing finding the truth within, not in some old book that could have been written by god knows who lol.

In that case, there is no truth from what you just wrote.

 

[Shermana]

I think fulfilling a law is different than making it void. The purpose of the law was fulfilled in leading up to the coming of the ultimate sin offering: Jesus Christ. Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfill. The Law of Moses was given to prepare us and to bring us to Christ.

It says nothing about the PURPOSE of the Law being fulfilled.

Besides, that would mean that you're supposed to obey the Law and still obey it JUST AS JESUS TAUGHT TO DO.

Hebrews 10:26-29, one of the most ignored (and twisted when actually forced to be addressed) passages among Christians says explicitly that if you continue to "Sin" (Defined as breaking the Law in 1 John 5:3) after receiving knowledge of the truth, Christ's sacrifice serves no more function for you, but you'll have nothing but "Fiery indignation" to look forward to.

The Bible's pretty clear that you're supposed to obey the Law of Moses, but the Doers of Lawlessness are desparate to twist and grind the Scriptures to comfort themselves into the idea that the Judaizers, who were the original Church were all wrong.

 

[psychoslice]

In that case, there is no truth from what you just wrote.

Yep that's it, what I share cannot be truth, what you read in the scriptures is not truth, you can only experience and be that which is truth, but try to share it or even write about it and it is lost.

 

[Shermana]

Yep that's it, what I share cannot be truth, what you read in the scriptures is not truth, you can only experience and be that which is truth, but try to share it or even write about it and it is lost.

Well I've experienced much truth that correlates directly to the Torah. So there.

 

[DavyCrocket2003]

It says nothing about the PURPOSE of the Law being fulfilled.

Besides, that would mean that you're supposed to obey the Law and still obey it JUST AS JESUS TAUGHT TO DO.

Hebrews 10:26-29, one of the most ignored (and twisted when actually forced to be addressed) passages among Christians says explicitly that if you continue to "Sin" (Defined as breaking the Law in 1 John 5:3) after receiving knowledge of the truth, Christ's sacrifice serves no more function for you, but you'll have nothing but "Fiery indignation" to look forward to.

The Bible's pretty clear that you're supposed to obey the Law of Moses, but the Doers of Lawlessness are desparate to twist and grind the Scriptures to comfort themselves into the idea that the Judaizers, who were the original Church were all wrong.

Hmm... This is a new train of thought for me. My first reaction is: Then how come the apostles said that circumcision was no longer required?

As for Hebrews 10, thanks for pointing me there. That is a very interesting read. I'm not sure I understand all of the context yet. THere are probably themes and patterns of thought running throughout the epistle that would add clarity. But on the face of it I don't see why those verses pointed out mean that the Law of Moses must still be obeyed. And I'm not trying to twist it. I would appreciate if you would add commentary as to why you read those verses the way you do.

 

[psychoslice]

Well I've experienced much truth that correlates directly to the Torah. So there.

And I thank you, you did it very well.

 

[Shermana]

Hmm... This is a new train of thought for me. My first reaction is: Then how come the apostles said that circumcision was no longer required?

As for Hebrews 10, thanks for pointing me there. That is a very interesting read. I'm not sure I understand all of the context yet. THere are probably themes and patterns of thought running throughout the epistle that would add clarity. But on the face of it I don't see why those verses pointed out mean that the Law of Moses must still be obeyed. And I'm not trying to twist it. I would appreciate if you would add commentary as to why you read those verses the way you do.

The issue of the Council of Jerusalem's authenticity is hotly debated. Quite a few scholars think it never happened. It appears Galatians 2 directly clashes with Acts 15, even arch-conservative FF Bruce tried to reconcile this by saying it refers to two different events.

I will discuss Hebrews in detail later, first I must try to get a ride to a party.

 

[Flankerl]

I think fulfilling a law is different than making it void. The purpose of the law was fulfilled in leading up to the coming of the ultimate sin offering: Jesus Christ. Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfill. The Law of Moses was given to prepare us and to bring us to Christ.

Isnt it fun how Hashem forgot to mention all these rather important details 3200 years ago?

There are two books about the dos and donts but all rather important details like "btw iam going to impregnate myself into a woman if you screw this up and will then die to atone for everyones sins" or "iam going to visit the tribe of ishmael if you are being so uncooperative in the future" are simply forgotten.

But when it comes to cooking, a rather important topic for a human being(or so i have heard) we get this: "You shall not cook a kid in its mother's milk."

Huh. Thats so not going to give our religious teachers a hard time. Thanks.

 

[Pegg]

http://www.religiousforums.com/forum/3533061-post35.html

as i said, you have a funny way of reading things