CMike
Well-Known Member
I don't know what the OT is?
However, the Torah doesn't conceal jesus, it has nothing to do with jesus.
Jesus is part of the christian religion, not the jewish one.
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The OT today
- Thread starter Tiberius
- Start date
However, the Torah doesn't conceal jesus, it has nothing to do with jesus.
Jesus is part of the christian religion, not the jewish one.
CMike
Well-Known Member
The Torah was not altered. It is perfect. It was given from G-D to Moses on Mt. Sinai.
WRONG... Just like many Christians your vision has been covered by your religion. God caused the fall for all mankind and God sent a savior long before there ever was a sinner.
CMike
Well-Known Member
The only savior jews have is G-D.
...Was it not I, the Lord? And there is no god apart from Me, a righteous God and a Savior; there is none but Me. (Isaiah, 45:21)
Turn to Me and be saved, all you ends of the Earth; for I am God, and there is no other. (Isaiah, 45:22)
This is what the Lord says "Surely God is with you, and there is no other; there is no other God." (Isaiah, 45:14)
...The Lord our God, the Lord is one. (Deuteronomy, 6:4)
Shermana
Heretic
No he is not.
Shermana
Heretic
Obadiah 1:21 says that God, the Chief Savior, sends saviors.
Shermana
Heretic
Genesis 38 was ripped directly out of the Book of the Jubilees word for word, numerous scholars agree it was interpolated.
And the Masoretic text is not error free.
And Deuteronomy itself is suspect altogether.
Ascribing perfection and direct, complete inspiration to it is little better than Christians who ascribe the NT being all inspired.
However, I do believe the Torah for the most part has been accurately conveyed from its original.
Yes He is. Jesus is God manifested in human flesh. God is one not three persons.
1 Timothy 3:16
And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.
1 Timothy 3:16 (Amp) 16And great and important and weighty, we confess, is the hidden truth (the mystic secret) of godliness. He [God] was made visible in human flesh, justified and vindicated in the [Holy] Spirit, was seen by angels, preached among the nations, believed on in the world, [and] taken up in glory.
1 Timothy 3:16
And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.
1 Timothy 3:16 (Amp) 16And great and important and weighty, we confess, is the hidden truth (the mystic secret) of godliness. He [God] was made visible in human flesh, justified and vindicated in the [Holy] Spirit, was seen by angels, preached among the nations, believed on in the world, [and] taken up in glory.
Amen and Jesus is that chief savior. Jesus is God.
Shermana
Heretic
That's the King James version which other Trinitarian-audience-pleasing versions emulate but doesn't go by the best and earliest manuscript traditions. I'm assuming you're a KJV-onlyist? It says HE appeared in the flesh. Even your second translation shows this, and for some reason puts "God" in brackets, dishonestly.
The Trinity Delusion: 1 Timothy 3:16
1 Timothy 3:16 Beyond all question, the mystery from which true godliness springs is great: He appeared in the flesh, was vindicated by the Spirit, was seen by angels, was preached among the nations, was believed on in the world, was taken up in glor
Now if you want me to pound every single "Trinity proof text" into oblivion, we have SEVERAL Trinity threads where I and others have blasted them into bits. Want some references?
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Shermana
Heretic
Wrong. Jesus says he was sent by God. God does not send himself. God does not send himself as another "person" and still regard himself as another "person".
First of all I am not a Trinitarian and I use many versions of the Bible.
"He appeared in the flesh" means the same thing as was manifested in flesh. God is one not three persons
Just because Jesus came in a earthy human form did not mean that all of God left high and exalted state and, what the Bible declares is God was manifested in the flesh.
God has the power and ability to do what ever He wants to, when ever He wants to; especially when it was His purpose to accomplish to defeat death and sin. We are talking about God here a Devine being who can do anything He desires or purpose to do. I already told you I do not believe in the trinity, God is one.
Jesus was God when He walked this earth, but more important He was totally human; but He was not yet glorified because in all things there was a reason for His earthiness, His flesh.
"He appeared in the flesh" means the same thing as was manifested in flesh. God is one not three persons
Just because Jesus came in a earthy human form did not mean that all of God left high and exalted state and, what the Bible declares is God was manifested in the flesh.
God has the power and ability to do what ever He wants to, when ever He wants to; especially when it was His purpose to accomplish to defeat death and sin. We are talking about God here a Devine being who can do anything He desires or purpose to do. I already told you I do not believe in the trinity, God is one.
Jesus was God when He walked this earth, but more important He was totally human; but He was not yet glorified because in all things there was a reason for His earthiness, His flesh.
Shermana
Heretic
No, the "he" is not referring to God, but to Jesus. It's that simple. You have to make presumptions and assumptions and read into it what's not there to get your interpretation. I am assuming that you are something close to a "Oneness" type who is basically a Neo-Modalist.
The concept of the Trinity and Modalism, or Jesus being anything but an agent sent from God, in the manifested form of "Wisdom" or the "Logos" or the "Word of God", did not exist for at least many decades from then.
The concept of the Trinity and Modalism, or Jesus being anything but an agent sent from God, in the manifested form of "Wisdom" or the "Logos" or the "Word of God", did not exist for at least many decades from then.
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No. I am not an oneness I am a Christian Universalist which is a long way from an oneness. The he is referring to both; God is one and Jesus was God in the flesh.
Modalist is a term limited believer on believer they do not agree with when they are being proven wrong,
Jesus was the lamb of God which was preordained to be slain before the fall of Adam. God knew Adam would fall and He had a savior before there was a sinner. The fall was God's will.
Modalist is a term limited believer on believer they do not agree with when they are being proven wrong,
Is this last statement supposed to mean something?????
Jesus was the lamb of God which was preordained to be slain before the fall of Adam. God knew Adam would fall and He had a savior before there was a sinner. The fall was God's will.
Shermana
Heretic
No, the "he" is only referring to Jesus. That's how it is. Circular reasoning won't help you here, the text is plain.
And yes, the last statement is supposed to mean that the beliefs which are similar to whatever it is that yours is, did not exist until well after the NT texts were written. The idea that Jesus is God did simply not exist until the 2nd century. Not even Justin Martyr believed this.
And yes, the last statement is supposed to mean that the beliefs which are similar to whatever it is that yours is, did not exist until well after the NT texts were written. The idea that Jesus is God did simply not exist until the 2nd century. Not even Justin Martyr believed this.
Shermana
Heretic
Opinions based on a plain reading of the text.
I could ask the same thing for you.
What's YOUR opinion based on? Trinitarian traditions?
I totally diagree, There is far more to the Bible then plain text. There is the Spirit of the Word and there is the letter that killeth. Most believer only kmow th plain text ot the letter that killeth.
The trinity...
God is one. Not one person He is one. Ask any Jew. God does not change.
Nowhere does is say in the Bible the Father is the first person of the trinity.
Nowhere does is say in the Bible the Son is the second person of the trinity.
Nowhere does is say in the Bible the Holy Spirit is the third person of the trinity.
Is this not what the trinity belief is?
The trinity...
God is one. Not one person He is one. Ask any Jew. God does not change.
Nowhere does is say in the Bible the Father is the first person of the trinity.
Nowhere does is say in the Bible the Son is the second person of the trinity.
Nowhere does is say in the Bible the Holy Spirit is the third person of the trinity.
Is this not what the trinity belief is?