The Pagan, Buddhist, and Hindu Thread

[JustGeorge]

Blessed Disting/Imbolc/Charming of the Plow (however you celebrate).

We have finally made it to the midway point between winter and spring, it's down hill to warmer days from here. Don't let the cold drag you down!

View attachment 59700

I took down my 'Diwali' lights today; or the strings of lights I hang during Diwali(diyas are traditional, but not workable in a house full of kids/cats). I leave them up through the solstice season, and all the way until Imbolc; I find the twinkling in the dark makes me a bit more optimistic.

With them gone, I noticed the sun's sticking around longer... February is by far the worst month of the year here, but this January put us through the wringer, too. I'm glad its begun so it can soon be over!

 

[Aupmanyav]

What's the relationship between Atman and Brahman in Vishishtadvaita?

"It is a school of Vedanta philosophy which believes in all diversity subsuming to an underlying unity". And that unity is Lord Vishnu, Narayana.
More here: Vishishtadvaita - Wikipedia

 

[Aupmanyav]

It survived endless lunatic Nazi-like regimes. It survived dictators in ancient Egypt, China, Rome and on. It survived the Huns and all the endless vicious lunatics in history. It will survive.

In words of Mohammad Iqbal, National Poet of Pakistan, before he turned a separatist:

"Yūnān o-Miṣr o-Rūmā, sab miṭ ga'e jahāṉ se, ab tak magar hai bāqī, nām o-nis̱ẖaṉ hamārā;
Kuch bāt hai ki hastī, miṭtī nahīṉ hamārī, sadiyoṉ rahā hai dus̱ẖman daur-e zamāṉ hamārā."

Greece, Egypt, and Rome (Empires) have all vanished from the world, but our name and sign survive till now;
There is something about our existence that it does not get wiped out, even though, times have been against us for centuries.

 

[RamaRaksha]

In another thread, I told someone I feel that us Buddhists, Pagans, and Hindus get swept under the rug around here.
So, I'm making a thread devoted to these three(very vast) worldviews. Any and all may participate, but this thread may not delve into discussions of Abrahamic viewpoints, scriptures, or their God.
Anyone have anything interesting to share or ask?

Can't speak for Pagans but Hinduism teaches us that Life is like a coin - Pain & Suffering on one side & Joy & Happiness on the other
The Buddha sought a way out of Pain & suffering and thought getting rid of Desires and Aspirations was the key to it, but what He never understood was that without Desires and Aspirations, we may have not much of a life
A coin has to have both sides - to say we want only one side - Joy & Happiness (Heaven) - is to reject Life!
A tree may be at peace all its life but would any of us give up human life for the life of a tree?
This is the point that the Buddha never understood & was one of the reasons why Buddhism failed in India

Buddhism sought a way OUT of pain & suffering, whereas Hinduism preached a way IN (Reincarnation)
Indians chose Hinduism over Buddhism

 

[Aupmanyav]

Budha understood that and talked about 'kusal' and 'akusal' desires.
What Buddha did not accept was emphasis on rituals of the time, deities, and rebirth. That angered brahmins as it was their livelihood.

 

[JonSL]

If you want some interesting reads on Hinduism,

you can look into the writings of:

Mahatma Gandhi
Sri Ramakrishna
Swami Vivekananda
Paramahansa Yogananda
Sri Aurobindo
Sri Ramana Maharishi
Sri Ananda Moi Ma

+++++++++++++++++++++++

I know that Buddhism faded in India, as it moved out of India. I think it took quite a long time for Buddhism to fade in India. I don't exactly recall the reasons why that happened. I believe some of those reasons were political and not religious. Since the time of the Buddha, there have always been some Buddhists still practicing in India.

And India in the Buddha's time, I believe, included what is now Nepal today. I think Nepal has remained consistently Buddhist all along.

For Buddhist reading, there is, of course, the Dhammapada. I have seen the whole work online, all free.

And there are the writings of various modern Buddhist teachers, including:

Thich Nhat Hanh
Roshi Bernard Glassman
Roshi John Daido Loori
Phillip Kapleau
Alan Watts

++++++++++++++


bamboo flute from both the Hindu and Buddhist traditions:


Raga Shivranjani on Bansuri (Indian Bamboo Flute)

+++

Komuso Zen Priest Playing Shakuhachi

 

[The Crimson Universe]

@Jainarayan
@Aupmanyav

Correct me if i'm wrong, but don't the vishisht-advaitins believe that the totality of all existence or the underlying reality, is the physical body of personal-god Narayana? ... That we jivas (individual beings) dwell within the physical body of Narayana ... That each part of Narayana's body, for example, his limbs, torso, head etc. make up the whole creation? Isn't that what they believe in?

 

[tom foolery]

What confuses me most is why you haven't just devoured the crumbs and tossed out the bag...

But I guess you don't have a house full of felines circling to grab up any remains...

your cats eat peanuts?

 

[Martin]

Can't speak for Pagans but Hinduism teaches us that Life is like a coin - Pain & Suffering on one side & Joy & Happiness on the other
The Buddha sought a way out of Pain & suffering and thought getting rid of Desires and Aspirations was the key to it, but what He never understood was that without Desires and Aspirations, we may have not much of a life
A coin has to have both sides - to say we want only one side - Joy & Happiness (Heaven) - is to reject Life!
A tree may be at peace all its life but would any of us give up human life for the life of a tree?
This is the point that the Buddha never understood & was one of the reasons why Buddhism failed in India

Buddhism sought a way OUT of pain & suffering, whereas Hinduism preached a way IN (Reincarnation)
Indians chose Hinduism over Buddhism

I'd agree that there is more of a focus on the mechanics of suffering in the Buddhist suttas, though Nibbana is described as a blissful state, so it's not all gloom and doom. I suspect it was actually the Buddhist teachings of anatta (no-self) and shunyata (emptiness) that put people off, since these can appear quite nihilistic.

 

[Martin]

If you want some interesting reads on Hinduism,

you can look into the writings of:

Mahatma Gandhi
Sri Ramakrishna
Swami Vivekananda
Paramahansa Yogananda
Sri Aurobindo
Sri Ramana Maharishi
Sri Ananda Moi Ma

+++++++++++++++++++++++

I know that Buddhism faded in India, as it moved out of India. I think it took quite a long time for Buddhism to fade in India. I don't exactly recall the reasons why that happened. I believe some of those reasons were political and not religious. Since the time of the Buddha, there have always been some Buddhists still practicing in India.

And India in the Buddha's time, I believe, included what is now Nepal today. I think Nepal has remained consistently Buddhist all along.

For Buddhist reading, there is, of course, the Dhammapada. I have seen the whole work online, all free.

And there are the writings of various modern Buddhist teachers, including:

Thich Nhat Hanh
Roshi Bernard Glassman
Roshi John Daido Loori
Phillip Kapleau
Alan Watts

++++++++++++++


bamboo flute from both the Hindu and Buddhist traditions:


Raga Shivranjani on Bansuri (Indian Bamboo Flute)

+++

Komuso Zen Priest Playing Shakuhachi

Some good recommendations, though I'd also suggest looking at some of the source material, eg the Buddhist suttas, the Upanishads, and the Bhagavad Gita.

 

[Aupmanyav]

@Jainarayan@Aupmanyav
Correct me if i'm wrong, but don't the vishisht-advaitins believe that the totality of all existence or the underlying reality, is the physical body of personal-god Narayana? ... That we jivas (individual beings) dwell within the physical body of Narayana ... That each part of Narayana's body, for example, his limbs, torso, head etc. make up the whole creation? Isn't that what they believe in?

That kind of belief is not technically correct Vishishtadvaita. It is mixed up with Bhakti.
Vedanta Desika (1268–1369), one of their teachers defined Vishishtadvaita as "Asesha Chit-Achit Prakaaram Brahma aikam eva Tatvam."
(The stuff of all living and non-living without any remainder is Brahman alone without a second)
Vishishtadvaita - Wikipedia
"He was an Indian philosopher, Sri Vaishnava guru, and one of the most brilliant stalwarts of Sri Vaishnavism in the post-Ramanuja period."
Vedanta Desika - Wikipedia

 

[Aupmanyav]

I'd agree that there is more of a focus on the mechanics of suffering in the Buddhist suttas, though Nibbana is described as a blissful state, so it's not all gloom and doom. I suspect it was actually the Buddhist teachings of anatta (no-self) and shunyata (emptiness) that put people off, since these can appear quite nihilistic.

See my post # 185. I do not think that @RamaRaksha understands Buddhism well. Anatta and Sunyata are truths if one understands them well and not nihilistic. IMHO, Budhism lost in India because of becoming too analytical. Perhaps fault of Buddhist scholars, 15 of this and 36 of that. It became isolated in Buddhist monasteries. That gave rise to Mahayana which succeeded in other countries. Understanding Hinduism was easier with Gods and Goddesses ever ready to help even if you talked to them in your own language. No technical, analytical road-blocks.

 

[The Crimson Universe]

That kind of belief is not technically correct Vishishtadvaita.

one of their teachers defined Vishishtadvaita as "Asesha Chit-Achit Prakaaram Brahma aikam eva Tatvam."
(The stuff of all living and non-living without any remainder is Brahman alone without a second)

And Brahman according to the VishishtAdvaitins is Narayana/Vishnu.
So the stuff of all living & non-living, as you said, IS brahman=vishnu.
Isn't it?

 

[Aupmanyav]

If you want some interesting reads on Hinduism, you can look into the writings of:

I know that Buddhism faded in India, as it moved out of India. I think it took quite a long time for Buddhism to fade in India. I don't exactly recall the reasons why that happened. I believe some of those reasons were political and not religious. Since the time of the Buddha, there have always been some Buddhists still practicing in India.

And India in the Buddha's time, I believe, included what is now Nepal today. I think Nepal has remained consistently Buddhist all along.

JonSL, I believe discussions on forums like RF give more information than book.
There were not much of political reasons for decline of Buddhism in India. Hindu kings donated to Buddhist institutions just as they did for Hindu institutions. Emperor Harsha were not Buddhist, but aided Buddhism. The remnants of Buddhist were wiped out by Muslims. Muslims got the name for idols from Buddha (But). Buddhism in North-West India was strong - in Peshawar and Rawalpindi. Taxila university was the first to be destroyed. Nalanda, the Buddhist university, survived till it was destroyed by Muslims in 1300 CE, though by that time Buddhism had lost steam in India.
Today, Nepal has 81% Hindu population and 9% Buddhists. Though it may have been more popular in history. Kindly remember that the location of Kapilvastu was undecided at that time. Piprahwa in India, had a better claim to be Kapilvastu, but Nehru accepted Kapilvastu in Nepal as a brotherly gift to Nepal and did not pursue the claim of Piprahwa. Piprahwa is where the vase with Buddha's ashes was found. It was gifted to Myanmar Buddhists by the British. Piprahwa is one of the oldest Buddhist stupas in India. Piprahwa - Wikipedia

 

[Aupmanyav]

And Brahman according to the VishishtAdvaitins is Narayana/Vishnu.
So the stuff of all living & non-living, as you said, IS brahman=vishnu.
Isn't it?

Yeah, you are correct. Vishishtadvatists worship Narayana (and not Vishnu, though I have to check this in the wiki page on Ramanuja).
Ramanuja has no problem with Vishnu. The main thing is that Ramanuja considers bhakti to be absolutely necessary.

"Rāmānuja is explicit in holding that theoretical knowledge of Brahman‘s nature will not suffice to procure liberation. The remedy to be employed, according Rāmānuja, is what he calls bhakti yoga, or the discipline of devotion or worship. For Ramanuja, liberation (moksha) is not a negative separation from transmigration, or a series of rebirths, but rather the joy of the contemplating the divine perfection.

This joy is attained by a life of exclusive devotion (bhakti) to Brahman, singing his praise, performing adulatory acts in temple and private worship, and constantly dwelling on his perfections. In return, Brahman will offer his grace, which will assist the devotee in gaining release.

Ramanuja's theory posits both Brahman and the world of matter are two different absolutes, both metaphysically real, neither should be called false or illusive, and saguna Brahman with attributes is also real.

God, like man, states Ramanuja, has both soul and body, and all of the world of matter is the glory of God's body. The path to Brahman (Vishnu), asserted Ramanuja, is devotion to godliness and constant remembrance of the beauty and love of personal god (saguna Brahman, Vishnu).

Well, my homage to Sri Ramanujacharya, but my views differ. I do not know why Ramanuja termed his philosophy as advaita! It is hardly one. Perhaps because for this:
"The difference is never transcended but he also affirmed that there is unity of all souls and that the individual soul has the potential to realize identity with the Brahman."

 

[JustGeorge]

your cats eat peanuts?

Its not anybody's favorite, but its happened. Its more likely if they're mixed into something else.

 

[RabbiO]

@JonSL -

I think you have misconstrued what @Martin has written based on a misunderstanding of how the word “some” is used in his post.

Since elsewhere you have posted that every person who posts to this forum appears to you to be a troll, it is probably only natural you read what Martin wrote in the most negative light.

 

[The Hammer]

The more the Abrahamics attack your polytheistic arguments. The stronger your case is.

It means you're representing a threat to their worldview.

 

[The Hammer]

Also, I'm tired of being looked down on by Abrahamic believers because of my views being Polytheistic. It's a touch insulting.

 

[The Hammer]

Maybe it's just best to stay out of theism discussions.

What do you think @JustGeorge , @Rival ?