The Plurality of God, The First and the Last

[101G]

To understand God’s Plurality, the question that must be asked, “is it in persons, as other members of the Godhead, or is it within his OWN-SELF as his own EQUAL SHARE of himself. the bible is clear, we can KNOW the Godhead, scripture, Romans 1:19 "Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them." Romans 1:20 "For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:"

so there is no excuse, NOT to KNOW. we will examine this knowledge from the ROOT up, provided by the bible, (kjv). which will set the stage of our understanding. and this Root information is found right in the beginning, the book of Genesis.

the Godhead ROOT Scripture for this understanding is Genesis 1:1 "In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.".
this term “GOD” here is H430 אֱלֹהִים 'elohiym (el-o-heem') n-m.
אֱלֹהֵי 'elohiy (el-o-hee') [alternate plural]
1. (literally) supreme ones.
2. (hence, in the ordinary sense) gods.
3. (specifically, in the plural, especially with the article) the Supreme God (i.e. the all supreme).
4. (sometimes) supreme, used as a superlative.
5. (occasionally, by way of deference) supreme magistrates, the highest magistrates of the land.
6. (also) the supreme angels (entities of unspecified type).
[plural of H433]
KJV: angels, X exceeding, God (gods)(-dess, -ly), X (very) great, judges, X mighty.
Root(s): H433

so where and what did this word originate from? answer it's root wrod. and that root word is H433 אֱלוֹהַּ 'elowahh (el-o'-ah) n-m.
אֱלֹהַּ 'eloahh (el-o'-ah) [shortened (rarely)]
1. one with supreme strength and ability.
2. the Supreme Being, God the Creator, Yahweh by name.
3. a supreme entity, a god-like creature (that is, one of God's supreme creations, or one of man's inventions).
[probably prolonged (emphat.) from H410]
KJV: God, god.

my source for both definitions above are from the Mickelson's Enhanced Strong's Dictionaries of the Greek and Hebrew Testaments.

so lets get at the ROOT of understanding the Godhead as a Plurality. question asked, will be answered……. guaranteed, based on the bible, the (kjv).
PICJAG, 101G.

 

[101G]

So our first ROOT PROBLEM is this, if God the H430 אֱלֹהִים 'elohiym (el-o-heem') is the plural of H433 אֱלוֹהַּ 'elowahh (el-o'-ah), then anything out side of H433 אֱלוֹהַּ 'elowahh (el-o'-ah), HIMSELF, is not God. meaning any persons within the Godhead, that is separate and distinct from him, is not God. any other person(s) in the Godhead have to be HIM, the same ONE PERSON, or else one has two separate, and distinct Gods.

and here's why, if H430 אֱלֹהִים 'elohiym (el-o-heem') is the plural of H433 אֱלוֹהַּ 'elowahh (el-o'-ah),, ”WHICH IT IS”, meaning H433 אֱלוֹהַּ 'elowahh (el-o'-ah), is before H430 אֱלֹהִים 'elohiym (el-o-heem'), which is the ROOT PROBLEM of the TERM "GOD", as H430 אֱלֹהִים 'elohiym (el-o-heem'). this is a problem for many Doctoral beliefs systems. understand if something is the plural, then it not the source, for a Plurality have to come from a single source, in order to be a Plurality, else it’s not a Plurality . and if one have a Plurality without a source then one is polytheistic by definition.

this should get us started. read the OP carefully as well as post #2 here again.
PICJAG, 101G.

 

[muhammad_isa]

..so lets get at the ROOT of understanding the Godhead as a Plurality..

The "godhead" is a man-made concept. Jesus did not pray to a "godhead".

The shema, which Jesus confirmed as the foundation of faith, says nothing about a godhead.
On the contrary, it stresses the importance of monotheism.

The only thing that can arise by claiming that we can understand G-d through several different parts/persons is confusion.
To claim that G-d is One but He has ["insert number here"] parts is simply a conjuring trick that is designed to mislead those without knowledge.

 

[MyM]

So our first ROOT PROBLEM is this, if God the H430 אֱלֹהִים 'elohiym (el-o-heem') is the plural of H433 אֱלוֹהַּ 'elowahh (el-o'-ah), then anything out side of H433 אֱלוֹהַּ 'elowahh (el-o'-ah), HIMSELF, is not God. meaning any persons within the Godhead, that is separate and distinct from him, is not God. any other person(s) in the Godhead have to be HIM, the same ONE PERSON, or else one has two separate, and distinct Gods.

and here's why, if H430 אֱלֹהִים 'elohiym (el-o-heem') is the plural of H433 אֱלוֹהַּ 'elowahh (el-o'-ah),, ”WHICH IT IS”, meaning H433 אֱלוֹהַּ 'elowahh (el-o'-ah), is before H430 אֱלֹהִים 'elohiym (el-o-heem'), which is the ROOT PROBLEM of the TERM "GOD", as H430 אֱלֹהִים 'elohiym (el-o-heem'). this is a problem for many Doctoral beliefs systems. understand if something is the plural, then it not the source, for a Plurality have to come from a single source, in order to be a Plurality, else it’s not a Plurality . and if one have a Plurality without a source then one is polytheistic by definition.

this should get us started. read the OP carefully as well as post #2 here again.
PICJAG, 101G.

Plural of respect. Allah also in the Quran uses plural of respect. Doesn't make him more than one

 

[101G]

The "godhead" is a man-made concept. Jesus did not pray to a "godhead".

The shema, which Jesus confirmed as the foundation of faith, says nothing about a godhead.
On the contrary, it stresses the importance of monotheism.

The only thing that can arise by claiming that we can understand G-d through several different parts/persons is confusion.
To claim that G-d is One but He has ["insert number here"] parts is simply a conjuring trick that is designed to mislead those without knowledge.

first thanks for the reply, but do not the shema states a Plurality in Ordinal designation of First and Last? Deuteronomy 6:4 "Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is one LORD:"
]and this definition of "ONE" is
H259 אֶחָד 'echad (ech-awd') adj.
1. (properly) united, i.e. one.
2. (as an ordinal) first.
[a numeral from H258]
KJV: a, alike, alone, altogether, and, any(-thing), apiece, a certain, (dai-)ly, each (one), + eleven, every, few, first, + highway, a man, once, one, only, other, some, together.
Root(s): H258
and is not God the H430 אֱלֹהִים 'elohiym (el-o-heem') a Plurality in Ordinal designation of First and Last? meaning a NUMERICAL DIFFERENCE? look up the term "ANOTHER" in the GREEK and one will see this NUMERICAL DIFFERENCE in a Plurality of Ordinal First and Last.
PICJAG, 101G.

 

[101G]

Plural of respect. Allah also in the Quran uses plural of respect. Doesn't make him more than one

did i say that? God is "ONE" within himself, as the First, and the last. Just as the OP states.
PICJAG, 101G.

 

[MyM]

So our first ROOT PROBLEM is this, if God the H430 אֱלֹהִים 'elohiym (el-o-heem') is the plural of H433 אֱלוֹהַּ 'elowahh (el-o'-ah), then anything out side of H433 אֱלוֹהַּ 'elowahh (el-o'-ah), HIMSELF, is not God. meaning any persons within the Godhead, that is separate and distinct from him, is not God. any other person(s) in the Godhead have to be HIM, the same ONE PERSON, or else one has two separate, and distinct Gods.

and here's why, if H430 אֱלֹהִים 'elohiym (el-o-heem') is the plural of H433 אֱלוֹהַּ 'elowahh (el-o'-ah),, ”WHICH IT IS”, meaning H433 אֱלוֹהַּ 'elowahh (el-o'-ah), is before H430 אֱלֹהִים 'elohiym (el-o-heem'), which is the ROOT PROBLEM of the TERM "GOD", as H430 אֱלֹהִים 'elohiym (el-o-heem'). this is a problem for many Doctoral beliefs systems. understand if something is the plural, then it not the source, for a Plurality have to come from a single source, in order to be a Plurality, else it’s not a Plurality . and if one have a Plurality without a source then one is polytheistic by definition.

this should get us started. read the OP carefully as well as post #2 here again.
PICJAG, 101G.

L is God in Hebrew
Ela means God in Hebrew
Elohim also means God in Hebrew and yes, elohim is plural

But the Hebrews as well as the Arabs, who are both are Semites, both Semitic languages, they both have two types of plural in their language.
There is a plural of respect and a plural of numbers. In almost every Eastern language there are two types of plural, that of numbers and of respect.
When you ask a Jew who is this Elohim, they will reply it is God. They will say plural of respect. When you ask a Muslim, in the Quran, means the same. Ina...Allah says it is for "US" to send...etc....it is a plural of respect. Everyone knows this who have studied these religions. Even no Arab Christian will ask who is this "US" in the Quran. It is a plural of respect.

 

[MyM]

did i say that? God is "ONE" within himself, as the First, and the last. Just as the OP states.
PICJAG, 101G.

I am sorry if I misunderstood your meaning. It got a bit confusing to me

 

[101G]

Plural of respect. Allah also in the Quran uses plural of respect. Doesn't make him more than one

First, thanks for the reply, second, in respect to "PERSON", there is only ONE PERSON. but this one Person is a Plurality, or the ECHAD in Ordinal designation of First and Last? according to Deuteronomy 6:4 and confirmed in Isaiah 41:3 , Isaiah 44:6, and REVEALED in this Plurality of "ONE" in Isaiah 48:12. so please go and check these scriptures out.
understand I used the (kjv) of the bible exclusive,
PICJAG, 101G.

 

[101G]

L is God in Hebrew
Ela means God in Hebrew
Elohim also means God in Hebrew and yes, elohim is plural

But the Hebrews as well as the Arabs, who are both are Semites, both Semitic languages, they both have two types of plural in their language.
There is a plural of respect and a plural of numbers. In almost every Eastern language there are two types of plural, that of numbers and of respect.
When you ask a Jew who is this Elohim, they will reply it is God. They will say plural of respect. When you ask a Muslim, in the Quran, means the same. Ina...Allah says it is for "US" to send...etc....it is a plural of respect. Everyone knows this who have studied these religions. Even no Arab Christian will ask who is this "US" in the Quran. It is a plural of respect.

that was then, God is no longer a mystery when he manifested in flesh. so all those old name are useless, put them in the garbage. listen carefully, Isaiah 52:6 "Therefore my people shall know my name: therefore they shall know in that day that I am he that doth speak: behold, it is I." and that term "shall" is a future tense designation which was fulfilled when he Manifested in Flesh. scripture, John 8:24 "I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins."
so There is no more need for the TERM "GOD" as in identification as to who it is..... it has been revealed who God is... "JESUS"/"EYSHUA".
now this Plurality of JESUS, "GOD" is understood in the Ordinal designation of First/Father, (Spirit), and Last/Son, (Flesh).
PICJAG, 101G.

 

[101G]

I am sorry if I misunderstood your meaning. It got a bit confusing to me

no problems, you're are my sister in Christ, no misunderstanding, we all are here to learn of OUR FATHER more better.
so keep asking ... ok...
be blessed.
PICJAG, 101G.

 

[Aupmanyav]

To understand God’s Plurality, the question that must be asked, ..

Before you start discussion on unity or plurality, first discuss whether any God exists or not.

 

[101G]

Before you start discussion on unity or plurality, first discuss whether any God exists or not.

First, thanks for the reply, second, that's easy to answer, how did you get here?, on your own? so if you exist, how did you get here , name the source? if mom and pop then the same same question.
now let me be very clear, I have nothing to do with "unity" concering God, only plurality, or the ECHAD of God in Ordinal designation of First and Last only. so this might help you understand our position better.
PICJAG, 101G.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

So our first ROOT PROBLEM is this, if God the H430 אֱלֹהִים 'elohiym (el-o-heem') is the plural of H433 אֱלוֹהַּ 'elowahh (el-o'-ah), then anything out side of H433 אֱלוֹהַּ 'elowahh (el-o'-ah), HIMSELF, is not God. meaning any persons within the Godhead, that is separate and distinct from him, is not God. any other person(s) in the Godhead have to be HIM, the same ONE PERSON, or else one has two separate, and distinct Gods.
and here's why, if H430 אֱלֹהִים 'elohiym (el-o-heem') is the plural of H433 אֱלוֹהַּ 'elowahh (el-o'-ah),, ”WHICH IT IS”, meaning H433 אֱלוֹהַּ 'elowahh (el-o'-ah), is before H430 אֱלֹהִים 'elohiym (el-o-heem'), which is the ROOT PROBLEM of the TERM "GOD", as H430 אֱלֹהִים 'elohiym (el-o-heem'). this is a problem for many Doctoral beliefs systems. understand if something is the plural, then it not the source, for a Plurality have to come from a single source, in order to be a Plurality, else it’s not a Plurality . and if one have a Plurality without a source then one is polytheistic by definition.
this should get us started. read the OP carefully as well as post #2 here again.
PICJAG, 101G.

However, elowahh / el-o-heem is Not a name but the Tetragrammaton letters YHWH stands for God's name.
King James version translated God's name YHWH into English as Jehovah at Psalms 83:18 B.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

L is God in Hebrew
Ela means God in Hebrew
Elohim also means God in Hebrew and yes, elohim is plural
But the Hebrews as well as the Arabs, who are both are Semites, both Semitic languages, they both have two types of plural in their language.
There is a plural of respect and a plural of numbers. In almost every Eastern language there are two types of plural, that of numbers and of respect.
When you ask a Jew who is this Elohim, they will reply it is God. They will say plural of respect. When you ask a Muslim, in the Quran, means the same. Ina...Allah says it is for "US" to send...etc....it is a plural of respect. Everyone knows this who have studied these religions. Even no Arab Christian will ask who is this "US" in the Quran. It is a plural of respect.

I find both God and Lord are 'titles' and Not personal names.
Elohim is Not the Tetragrammaton YHWH which stands for God's personal name.
King James translates the Tetragrammaton at Psalms 83:18 into English as: Jehovah

 

[101G]

to all, STATEMENT: the bible is clear, we can KNOW the Godhead, scripture, Romans 1:19 "Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them." Romans 1:20 "For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:"
what things was made that we can know the Godhead? well of course "US". Genesis 1:26 "And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth."
but was not God a single person when he made man? yes this is the beauty of God in the ECHAD as First/LORD, and Last/Lord. just as the very next verse states,

Genesis 1:27 "So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them."
so how is this a revealing of the Godhead.... in the making man "male and female". for the term Adam mean, here at Genesis 1:26, is "ANOTHER" of ONE-SELF. BINGO, that's God's plurality, or ECHAD of himself in Flesh. for the term Adam itself can be translated in the (kjv), as "ANOTHER". using the Mickelson's Enhanced Strong's Dictionaries of the Greek and Hebrew Testaments, ADAM:
H120 אָדָם 'adam (aw-dawm') n-m.
ruddy i.e. a human being (an individual or the species, mankind, etc.).
[from H119]
KJV: X another, + hypocrite, + common sort, X low, man (mean, of low degree), person.
Root(s): H119
there it is... "X another", just as G243 Allos or "ANOTHER" defind the ECHAD of God in NUMERICAL DIFFERENCE, of Firsdt and Last, according to the Vine's Expository Dictionary of New Testament Words allos is defined, or expresses, "a numerical difference and denotes another of the same sort". this numerical difference is just what the ECHAD is in definition at Deuteronomy 6:4, a numerical difference of the same ONE PERSON/ or as G243 allos states, "the same sort", or the same person. now the clear understanding of the term God is clearly before us, the H430 אֱלֹהִים 'elohiym (el-o-heem') in Genesis 1:1. it is the Ordinal First and Last of God the H433 אֱלוֹהַּ 'elowahh (el-o'-ah) in TIME, PLACE, RANK, and ORDER. this proves that God is a ECHAD of one person within himself in TIME, PLACE, RANK, and ORDER. this answer the plurality of God in the OP.

now we need to understand HOW or the mechanism of this plurality. and MY "ANSWER" is EQUAL SHARE, God is the EQUAL of himself in Flesh. because God cannot be divided, separated, or distinct from himself...... let me say this again, "God cannot be divided, separated, or distinct from himself."
now if anyone have a better explanation of his plurality, please post it.
PICJAG, 101G.

 

[101G]

However, elowahh / el-o-heem is Not a name but the Tetragrammaton letters YHWH stands for God's name.
King James version translated God's name YHWH into English as Jehovah at Psalms 83:18 B.

First thanks for the reply, second, we're discussing the NATURE of God, not his name... yet, (which we will get to later), but right now his NATURE... ok.
be blessed, so stick around. thanks
PICJAG, 101G.

 

[101G]

PS, to all. FYI, the terms "First", and "Last" is equivalent to "Alpha/First", and Omega/Last", as with Beginning/First, and End/Last. as with Root/First, and Offspring/Last, or as with Aleph/First, and Tav/Last. plwase understand, one and only one person hold these titles. .... JESUS.
PICJAG, 101G.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

PS, to all. FYI, the terms "First", and "Last" is equivalent to "Alpha/First", and Omega/Last", as with Beginning/First, and End/Last. as with Root/First, and Offspring/Last, or as with Aleph/First, and Tav/Last. plwase understand, one and only one person hold these titles. .... JESUS.
PICJAG, 101G.

In the Bible, I find God had 'No beginning' according to Psalms 90:2.
In other words, God was ' before ' the beginning of anything.
Before Almighty God there was No one other.- Isaiah 44:6.
Jesus likened his God as being The Creator at Revelation 4:11.
John wrote pre-human Jesus was "IN" the beginning, but never wrote Jesus was ' before ' the beginning.
Rather, at Revelation 3:14 B;1:5, John says Jesus was the beginning of the creation by God.

 

[101G]

In the Bible, I find God had 'No beginning' according to Psalms 90:2.
In other words, God was ' before ' the beginning of anything.
Before Almighty God there was No one other.- Isaiah 44:6.
Jesus likened his God as being The Creator at Revelation 4:11.
John wrote pre-human Jesus was "IN" the beginning, but never wrote Jesus was ' before ' the beginning.
Rather, at Revelation 3:14 B;1:5, John says Jesus was the beginning of the creation by God.

first, thanks for the reply, second, "beginning" in CREATION, as the term applies in Genesis 1:1,
BEGINNING: H7225 רֵאשִׁית re'shiyth (ray-sheeth') n-f.
1. the first, in place, time, order or rank.
2. (specifically) a firstfruit.
[from the same as H7218]
KJV: beginning, chief(-est), first(-fruits, part, time), principal thing.
Root(s): H7218
definition tells it all. the First in PLACE, the OLD CREATION. TIME in the beginning of the OLD CREATION, and RANK in the OLD CREATION. the ODER is "First".
Understand now?
PICJAG, 101G.