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The political spectrum and its relevance

Stevicus

Veteran Member
Staff member
Premium Member
There's a current thread where RF members are asked to take the political compass quiz and post their results, in order to gauge where most of the RF posters stand on the political spectrum/grid. While I think it's interesting and can be somewhat informative, it seems there's a lot of room for interpretation. In fact, it seems to raise more questions than answers, especially since many U.S. politicians appeared to fall in the right/authoritarian quadrant, while most RF posters (including myself) fell into the left/libertarian quadrant.

Everyone seems to have their own ideas about the political spectrum and what constitutes "left" and "right." Recently, I've noticed that some people put the Nazis on the "far left," but that seems a bit revisionist. Traditionally, my understanding is that fascists, Nazis, and ultra-nationalists belong on the "far right" end of the spectrum. Ideologically, Communists tended to be more internationalistic in their worldview, favoring cooperation and peaceful coexistence among nationalities, ideally with the workers of the world uniting for a common cause. There's no room for nationalism under that banner.

Whether or not they actually practiced that principle is a different matter, at least in terms of looking at the political spectrum, which seems more an ideological abstraction, not realpolitik or an accurate description of the mechanisms and apparatus by which political systems operate. That, just by itself, appears to be one of the major failings of the political spectrum as a useful tool.

Another idea that I've often heard is that liberals, progressives and the left in general tend to be more open to change and new ideas, whereas conservatives and others on the right are stuck in older, traditional ways.

Other terms which relate to the political spectrum and are often tossed about "far right" and "far left," but even that can get a bit murky when they're usually used as labels concocted by those who are on the opposite end. At least when it comes those being called "far left," their views might be more moderate, although if they feel they're under attacked, they might dig in and entrench themselves to such a degree that it might appear "far left."
 

Lyndon

"Peace is the answer" quote: GOD, 2014
Premium Member
Nazis persecuted and exterminated communists and socialists, Nazis are far right, you can't rewrite history and claim that they are leftists.
 

JustGeorge

Imperfect
Staff member
Premium Member
I thought the compass was interesting for one to note on oneself, but might be useless in wider social circles.

For example, I scored in the center on the left/libertarian square, but if I went into a circle of 'lefties', I wouldn't feel comfortable. While I might agree with much of what is considered popular for what the US considers a 'left leaning view', I have a couple opinions, that if known to them, were found out, I'd become very unpopular rather quickly.

US politics reminds me of high school cliques...just a little nastier.
 

Secret Chief

Very strong language
In the UK currently there is certainly some attempted revisionism going on from those who are rightwing nationalists (and further that way :rolleyes: ), insofar as leftwing (ie socialist) people are being termed fascists. Also, apparently - I have read - the EU is a fascist organisation. There's no point in directing such people to a dictionary though, even the ones that can spell. What is the agenda behind this nonsense? The irony is of course that some of these jokers are the real fascists (as per any random dictionary). Twitter can be so depressing...
 

MNoBody

Well-Known Member
Nazis persecuted and exterminated communists and socialists, Nazis are far right, you can't rewrite history and claim that they are leftists.
left right, who cares, both gangs are criminal....socialism/fascism, both basically the same for the poor mokes who have to live under the rule of these street gangs.
as if one is better than the other or something. both are equally corrupted. IMO
 

PoetPhilosopher

Veteran Member
What surprised me is I got less left than most lefts on that test, when I believe we should live in a society ran by Andrew Yang or a couple of people at the head, with big government and universal income where robots take over the bulk of our jobs and if we need a job, we can work for the government. While some may consider that authoritarian, it just surprised me I don't score more left.
 

MNoBody

Well-Known Member
after all this time experimenting with societal models [which ideology is better for man]
with all these , oh so smart people leading the charge, [such lofty evolved intellects:rolleyes:o_O]
one would expect to see more success..... [historically, ....and presently]
but no matter how lofty the entrance of any new ideology [how rosy and good it sounded],
it gets corrupted when run in this matrix, very quickly. [records do not paint a flattering picture of humanity]
which indicates that either the humans have very little integrity as sentient beings, to work with from the get-go,
or the experiments are too easily corrupted [by malicious 3rd party interference] which seems to be an intentional design issue [which on the human side would be called a flaw, but perhaps isn't.]
 

Lyndon

"Peace is the answer" quote: GOD, 2014
Premium Member
left right, who cares, both gangs are criminal....socialism/fascism, both basically the same for the poor mokes who have to live under the rule of these street gangs.
as if one is better than the other or something. both are equally corrupted. IMO

Obviously someone that has no idea what socialism really is or can be.
 
There's a current thread where RF members are asked to take the political compass quiz and post their results, in order to gauge where most of the RF posters stand on the political spectrum/grid.

The problem with that quiz is that it was clearly devised by a left-leaning person and quite a few of the questions that are supposed to identify 'right' are abysmally biased

For example:

"If economic globalisation is inevitable, it should primarily serve humanity rather than the interests of trans-national corporations"

Most right wing people believe that business serves the interest of humanity via the creation of wealth, goods and services.

The whole test will skew many people to the left of where they would be if the questions were worded fairly.
 

PureX

Veteran Member
after all this time experimenting with societal models [which ideology is better for man]
with all these , oh so smart people leading the charge, [such lofty evolved intellects:rolleyes:o_O]
one would expect to see more success..... [historically, ....and presently]
but no matter how lofty the entrance of any new ideology [how rosy and good it sounded],
it gets corrupted when run in this matrix, very quickly. [records do not paint a flattering picture of humanity]
which indicates that either the humans have very little integrity as sentient beings, to work with from the get-go,
or the experiments are too easily corrupted [by malicious 3rd party interference] which seems to be an intentional design issue [which on the human side would be called a flaw, but perhaps isn't.]
The ideas are generally laudable. The problems come with the execution. And the reason for this is the same across the full ideological spectrum: the people who want to do the implementing are exactly the people who will abuse that responsibility, if they get it. Those who want to "lead" are exactly those who should never be allowed to do so. And humanity still has not managed to fully realize this, and correct our systems of governance, accordingly.
 

Erebus

Well-Known Member
which indicates that either the humans have very little integrity as sentient beings, to work with from the get-go,
or the experiments are too easily corrupted [by malicious 3rd party interference] which seems to be an intentional design issue [which on the human side would be called a flaw, but perhaps isn't.]

This is why I favour wiping out humanity and thus ending all societal ills.

I'm only half joking...

...Maybe 25% joking.
 

exchemist

Veteran Member
There's a current thread where RF members are asked to take the political compass quiz and post their results, in order to gauge where most of the RF posters stand on the political spectrum/grid. While I think it's interesting and can be somewhat informative, it seems there's a lot of room for interpretation. In fact, it seems to raise more questions than answers, especially since many U.S. politicians appeared to fall in the right/authoritarian quadrant, while most RF posters (including myself) fell into the left/libertarian quadrant.

Everyone seems to have their own ideas about the political spectrum and what constitutes "left" and "right." Recently, I've noticed that some people put the Nazis on the "far left," but that seems a bit revisionist. Traditionally, my understanding is that fascists, Nazis, and ultra-nationalists belong on the "far right" end of the spectrum. Ideologically, Communists tended to be more internationalistic in their worldview, favoring cooperation and peaceful coexistence among nationalities, ideally with the workers of the world uniting for a common cause. There's no room for nationalism under that banner.

Whether or not they actually practiced that principle is a different matter, at least in terms of looking at the political spectrum, which seems more an ideological abstraction, not realpolitik or an accurate description of the mechanisms and apparatus by which political systems operate. That, just by itself, appears to be one of the major failings of the political spectrum as a useful tool.

Another idea that I've often heard is that liberals, progressives and the left in general tend to be more open to change and new ideas, whereas conservatives and others on the right are stuck in older, traditional ways.

Other terms which relate to the political spectrum and are often tossed about "far right" and "far left," but even that can get a bit murky when they're usually used as labels concocted by those who are on the opposite end. At least when it comes those being called "far left," their views might be more moderate, although if they feel they're under attacked, they might dig in and entrench themselves to such a degree that it might appear "far left."
Yes, I objected to the assumptions underlying the test, which seemed to focus almost exclusively on economic laissez-faire as a test of "conservatism", ignoring all the normal facets of conservatism, such as support for the existing social order, institutions (church, military, monarchy etc), tradition and culture. In fact, the dogma of economic laissez-faire has only really been adopted by conservatives in the last 30 years or so, whereas these other facets of conservatism have been present for several centuries.

But in any case, the notion of a "spectrum" is implicitly one-dimensional, whereas few people's attitudes can really be summed up in that way.
 

MNoBody

Well-Known Member
Obviously someone that has no idea what socialism really is or can be.
hmmm...context m8
which was indicated...."both basically the same for the poor mokes who have to live under the rule of these street gangs.
idealism and reality are 2 different things???? right? or are you saying something else is possible?
besides, why throw mud at me..... kind of focusing on an unknown quality of the messenger now, isn't that bro?
what a kind soul:)
 

exchemist

Veteran Member
left right, who cares, both gangs are criminal....socialism/fascism, both basically the same for the poor mokes who have to live under the rule of these street gangs.
as if one is better than the other or something. both are equally corrupted. IMO
It is wrong to treat communism and socialism as synonymous. Socialism covers a wide spectrum, from communism at one extreme to the centrist social democracies of the Scandinavian countries at the other.

Fascism also is one extreme of right wing ideology. Most traditional conservatism has little in common with fascism, at least in democratic countries.
 

exchemist

Veteran Member
hmmm...context m8
which was indicated...."both basically the same for the poor mokes who have to live under the rule of these street gangs.
idealism and reality are 2 different things???? right? or are you saying something else is possible?
besides, why throw mud at me..... kind of focusing on an unknown quality of the messenger now, isn't that bro?
what a kind soul:)
People will judge you by the quality of your contributions. That ought not to surprise you.
 

MNoBody

Well-Known Member
It is wrong to treat communism and socialism as synonymous. Socialism covers a wide spectrum, from communism at one extreme to the centrist social democracies of the Scandinavian countries at the other.

Fascism also is one extreme of right wing ideology. Most traditional conservatism has little in common with fascism, at least in democratic countries.
you are merely picking semantical nits....
all of these systems have the potential to be benevolent and compassionate, yet in reality they tend to fail more than ever succeed
or do you argue that things are just going along great?
 

exchemist

Veteran Member
you are merely picking semantical nits....
all of these systems have the potential to be benevolent and compassionate, yet in reality they tend to fail more than ever succeed
or do you argue that things are just going along great?
This is just superficial and silly.

Nobody claims any political system or party is perfect. But if you look at the majority of democracies, you will find examples of both left-leaning and right-leaning parties in power, which are not "gangs", and not hugely corrupt, carrying out their duties in what they see as the best interests of their country.
 
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