The Pope on women and gays

[Unfathomable Tao]

In an interview on a plane from Armenia to Rome, the Pope made some very interesting remarks, not the least of which was that the RCC should ask forgiveness from the gay community for their past treatment and said the same of women. Do you agree with him on these provocative and forward thinking statements? Why or why not. the link for the full article is here.....

http://www.aol.com/article/2016/06/...orgiveness-from-gays-for-past-treat/21419341/

I would wonder if for him 'ask forgiveness' means accept gay people completely and totally, as humans that want to love and have that happiness like anyone else. I would ask the Pope if he means the Church should accept gay couples and families into the religious life without hesitation, in love and goodwill. If he does not mean that by it, I must conclude this is a way of trying to draw back some members.

 

[metis]

I would wonder if for him 'ask forgiveness' means accept gay people completely and totally, as humans that want to love and have that happiness like anyone else. I would ask the Pope if he means the Church should accept gay couples and families into the religious life without hesitation, in love and goodwill. If he does not mean that by it, I must conclude this is a way of trying to draw back some members.

What do you mean by "religious life" in this context, just as a point of clarification?

 

[Unfathomable Tao]

What do you mean by "religious life" in this context, just as a point of clarification?

Merely a usage to apply to being Catholic.

 

[Nous]

Why? Where does the Bible suggest that loving, committed same-sex couples and their children should be deprived to the same civil rights as different-sex couples and their children enjoy?

Nowhere, however, the RCC has taken that stand as well as most of other denominations.

Yes, it's the big disconnect that these denominations have and promote about same-sex couples (and their children) and civil law. These religions or denominations assert that "homosexuality" is immoral (despite the fact that no one is harmed by any consensual sex act between persons of the same sex, and many same-sex couples and parents are more responsible and loving in their relationships and parenting than are different-sex couples), then irrationally arrive at the idea that same-sex couples and their children should therefore be deprived of the same civil rights that different-sex couples and their children are provided. The fact is that even murderers on death row are allowed the right to get married. This is why many gay and bisexual people see these religions as promoting the idea that being gay, and loving and seeking to form a committed relationship with a person of the same-sex, is worse that being a murderer. You didn't hear a single religion get in an uproar when the Supreme Court held that even prisoners, including the worst sorts of unrepentant murderers, have a right to get married.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

I have been similarly celibate since the death of my partner. Mostly in honor of her memory as she was my soul mate and no one would be ever able to take her place. Frank, you are not damned my friend. God, IMO, cares for us all.

I'm so sorry for the loss of your beloved. I'm in love with someone who I feel much the same about. I'm also grieving the loss of my mother. No, I don't think I'm damned because of my sexual orientation or gender identity. That's just how some people want to make me feel. I know God is love. What truly damns us is hatred, greed, hubris, apathy, etc. Personally speaking, I've experienced hell while in the depths of suicidal depressive despair. Hell is a state of mind and your state of mind is a reflection of the state of your soul, so you can experience hell while still alive on this plane. Hell is just a state of separation from God.

 

[FearGod]

In an interview on a plane from Armenia to Rome, the Pope made some very interesting remarks, not the least of which was that the RCC should ask forgiveness from the gay community for their past treatment and said the same of women. Do you agree with him on these provocative and forward thinking statements? Why or why not. the link for the full article is here.....

http://www.aol.com/article/2016/06/...orgiveness-from-gays-for-past-treat/21419341/

Is he still a pope and believing what in the bible.

Leviticus 20:13, "If there is a man who lies with a male as those who lie with a woman, both of them have committed a detestable act; they shall surely be put to death. Their bloodguiltness is upon them."

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

Is he still a pope and believing what in the bible.

Leviticus 20:13, "If there is a man who lies with a male as those who lie with a woman, both of them have committed a detestable act; they shall surely be put to death. Their bloodguiltness is upon them."

Yes, he's still the Pope and no, Christians aren't supposed to go around killing people.

 

[Godobeyer]

Yes, he's still the Pope and no, Christians aren't supposed to go around killing people.

I believe majority of Christians don't practice their scriptures laws. they just read them as decoration

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

I believe majority of Christians don't practice their scriptures laws. they just read them as decoration

And I don't care what you believe about Christians, while you are posting videos of a Wahhabi lunatic who supports terrorism, slavery, rape, killing "apostates", etc. Naik - the Saudi puppet - can shove it.

 

[FearGod]

Yes, he's still the Pope and no, Christians aren't supposed to go around killing people.

Yes of course, but i mean how he reconcile between what in the bible and his own view.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

Yes of course, but i mean how he reconcile between what in the bible and his own view.

First off, what exactly do you think his view is? Where does calling for people to treat each other with more compassion and mercy conflict with what the Bible says?

Christians do not follow the Mosaic Law. We don't support putting people to death for sins, and neither did Christ. Actually, the Vatican is officially opposed to the death penalty in general. When it comes to homosexuality, that's a complex topic. The Bible isn't clear on it, when you place the verses that seem to touch on it in their historical and cultural contexts, especially in the original languages. Officially, the Vatican teaches that homosexual sex acts are sinful, but you are just to refrain from them, confess and do penance like with all other sins. Of course, there's a lot of disagreement in the Church over homosexuality being sinful. There's many Catholic theologians, clergy and laypeople who think that homosexuality is as God-given a sexual orientation as heterosexuality is. It's an ongoing debate within the Church.

Regardless, Christians are called to refrain from judging others and to always show charity (neighborly love), mercy, forgiveness and compassion to everyone and to practice humility.

 

[FearGod]

First off, what exactly do you think his view is? Where does calling for people to treat each other with more compassion and mercy conflict with what the Bible says?

Christians do not follow the Mosaic Law. We don't support putting people to death for sins, and neither did Christ. Actually, the Vatican is officially opposed to the death penalty in general. When it comes to homosexuality, that's a complex topic. The Bible isn't clear on it, when you place the verses that seem to touch on it in their historical and cultural contexts, especially in the original languages. Officially, the Vatican teaches that homosexual sex acts are sinful, but you are just to refrain from them, confess and do penance like with all other sins. Of course, there's a lot of disagreement in the Church over homosexuality being sinful. There's many Catholic theologians, clergy and laypeople who think that homosexuality is as God-given a sexual orientation as heterosexuality is. It's an ongoing debate within the Church.

Regardless, Christians are called to refrain from judging others and to always show charity (neighborly love), mercy, forgiveness and compassion to everyone and to practice humility.

Yes i agree death penalty is very harsh as punishment for sex activities, i think only murderers may deserve it,
so do you think the Mosaic Law was distorted and Jesus came to correct it?

For example he resisted stoning the adulterer and murdering the ones working during Sabbath.

 

[Godobeyer]

And I don't care what you believe about Christians, while you are posting videos of a Wahhabi lunatic who supports terrorism, slavery, rape, killing "apostates", etc. Naik - the Saudi puppet - can shove it.

If the Christians themself don't care about what they believe,why should you !!!

Can you provide an evidence for your claims about Dr Naik?

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

Yes i agree death penalty is very harsh as punishment for sex activities, i think only murderers may deserve it,
so do you think the Mosaic Law was distorted and Jesus came to correct it?

For example he resist stoning the adulterer and murdering the ones working during Sabbath.

The Mosaic Code was a set of tribal laws covering religious and civil matters. I do not take the view that they were handed down directly from God or, rather, that they missed the point of what God really wants from humanity. They were a product of ancient Jewish society. Jesus was the complete Revelation of God to humanity. Jesus was Jewish and so that was the framework He worked within. There were many distortions and abuses by the Jewish religious authorities as He saw it, so He argued against them. The Law was seen as a foreshadowing of the perfected Covenant of humanity that Christ brought. The New Covenant is based on faith and grace. Instead of laws from stone, we have the laws of God written directly on hearts of living flesh.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

If the Christians themself don't care about what they believe,why should you !!!

We do care. It's you that doesn't understand Christianity in the first place.

Can you provide an evidence for your claims about Dr Naik?

Wikipedia, Google and what he says in his videos.

 

[Godobeyer]

We do care. It's you that doesn't understand Christianity in the first place.

I understand from Bible.

The Bible said don't drink alcholo,most of the Christians drink.
Homosexual is prohibit in Bible , most of the Christians had no problem of it.
Jesus (pbuh) did the circumcision,most of the Chritians don't.
Bible prohibit the adultery, most of the Christians had no problem with that.

Wikipedia, Google and what he says in his videos.

Everyone you disagree with him you accuse his reputation ?

Sorry; it's does exist only in your mind.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

I understand from Bible.

The Bible said don't drink alcholo,most of the Christians drink.

The Bible never forbade alcohol.

Homosexual is prohibit in Bible , most of the Christians had no problem of it.

Debatable: http://www.religioustolerance.org/hom_bibl.htm

Jesus (pbuh) did the circumcision,most of the Chritians don't.

Jesus never said that His followers had to be circumcised. Christianity focuses on the circumcision of the heart. Physical circumcision is spiritually meaningless under the New Covenant.

Bible prohibit the adultery, most of the Christians had no problem with that.

Since when do most Christians or people in general have no problem with adultery? Most people would be very upset if their spouse was cheating on them!

Everyone you disagree with him you accuse his reputation ?

Sorry; it's does exist only in your mind.

I guess Wikipedia, Google and his dumb videos only exist in my mind, too. I don't expect you to believe what they say, anyway. It must be an evil Western plot to smear your beloved preacher!

 

[Godobeyer]

The Bible never forbade alcohol.

Jesus never said that His followers had to be circumcised. Christianity focuses on the circumcision of the heart. Physical circumcision is spiritually meaningless under the New Covenant.

Since when do most Christians or people in general have no problem with adultery? Most people would be very upset if their spouse was cheating on them!


I guess Wikipedia, Google and his dumb videos only exist in my mind, too. I don't expect you to believe what they say, anyway. It must be an evil Western plot to smear your beloved preacher!

Ephesians 5:18
And sdo not get drunk with wine, for that is tdebauchery, but ube filled with the Spirit,

http://biblia.com/bible/esv/Eph 5.18
k“Drink no wine or strong drink, you or your sons with you, when you go into the tent of meeting, lest you die. It shall be a statute forever throughout your generations



You said Followers !


Where the Christians following Jesus (pbuh) exactly ?


Since you have any evidence about Dr Naik , of course it's does only exist in your mind

 

[Godobeyer]

@Saint Frankenstein

Jesus (pbuh) never said to Pope or priests of churches don't not marry woman,so why they don't follow him ?
Jesus (pbuh) never said to nuns don't marry ! so why don't they follow him ?

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

@Godobeyer

I was going to answer your posts seriously, but I see now that you are just trying to attack Catholicism. You are not interested in trying to understand or learn. You are being extremely rude with your snarky arrogance and are derailing the thread. Stop it, or I'll start reporting you. Maybe you should take a cue from FearGod in this thread on how to ask questions without being disrespectful.