The Prince of Darkness

[darkenedheart11]

Many Satanists in general call Lucifer/Satan "The Prince of Darkness". Where does the 'prince' part come from? Why not the King of Darkness, or the Ruler of Darkness? I believe Lucifer shouldn't be degraded to a Prince when he is a King of Kings. Wouldn't you agree?

 

[Era]

Don`t you think there are some differences between Satan and Lucifer ? I think there are a lot . But since we are talking about satanism , maybe you should consider the differences between modern and traditional satanism . In modern satanism , we make a separation between Satan , who we call the Dark Force , the one that acts in nature and Lucifer who is a representation of that force . If you put Satan as one with Lucifer , then you might consider of making Satan to be created created by another force , wich I don`t believe is the case . But I agree with one point , that Lucifer is the most important representation of Satan , and yes you can call him the king , but not Satan .

 

[darkenedheart11]

Don`t you think there are some differences between Satan and Lucifer ? I think there are a lot . But since we are talking about satanism , maybe you should consider the differences between modern and traditional satanism . In modern satanism , we make a separation between Satan , who we call the Dark Force , the one that acts in nature and Lucifer who is a representation of that force . If you put Satan as one with Lucifer , then you might consider of making Satan to be created created by another force , wich I don`t believe is the case . But I agree with one point , that Lucifer is the most important representation of Satan , and yes you can call him the king , but not Satan .

I am well aware of the differences between Modern and Traditional Satanism. No two Satanists hold the same beliefs, whether they be Modern or Traditional , Era. I am a Traditional Satanist myself and I don't believe that Lucifer and Satan are separate entities/forces. Satan is just another name Lucifer is known by as far as I'm concerned, but I did happen to notice that the Satanic Bible seemed to lean towards a distinction of the two. Ex: The Book of Lucifer and The book of Satan, being separate books. The only disagreement I have with Modern Satanism is the fact that they do not believe in Lucifer as being an actual living entity/deity. Almost everything else is fine and bears a great reflection of Lucifer.

 

[Era]

We do not believe in living deities . And even for us Lucifer has a great impact , like I said he is the most important , but you see saying that Lucifer is Satan is just the same thing , for us , like saying that Belial is Satan . Modern satanism use symbolism , Lucifer for example means liberty , will . If you had seen , The Book of Satan , talks about human life wich is supported by some great force , that`s Satan , The Book of Lucifer represent some kind of teachings about how we should handle thimgs , because Lucifer is a teacher of freedom , but he is symbolic .

 

[DianeVera]

I am a Traditional Satanist myself and I don't believe that Lucifer and Satan are separate entities/forces. Satan is just another name Lucifer is known by as far as I'm concerned.

I agree.

I should also mention, though, that there is not a one-to-one correspondence between entities and names. Lucifer means "light-bearer" or "morning star" and has been applied not just to Satan but also to other entities as well. In the New Testament, it was even applied to Christ. (See the Catholic Encyclopedia article on Lucifer.) Obviously, Satan and Christ are not the same entity. The name "Lucifer" was also used in ancient Rome to refer to a minor Roman god, the son of Aurora, goddess of dawn.

 

[DianeVera]

We do not believe in living deities . And even for us Lucifer has a great impact , like I said he is the most important , but you see saying that Lucifer is Satan is just the same thing , for us , like saying that Belial is Satan . Modern satanism use symbolism , Lucifer for example means liberty , will . If you had seen , The Book of Satan , talks about human life wich is supported by some great force , that`s Satan , The Book of Lucifer represent some kind of teachings about how we should handle thimgs , because Lucifer is a teacher of freedom , but he is symbolic .

Theistic Satanists do believe in Satan/Lucifer as an actual entity of one kind or another. To me the names Lucifer, Belial, etc. represent different aspects of the same entity.

 

[Halcyon]

Lucifer for example means liberty , will

Erm, i thought Lucifer meant Light Bringer?

Maybe they call him the price of darkness because Christians believe God is king and calling Shaitan the king of darkness would kinda make him equal with God, just a thought.

In Christian mythology i imagine Shaitan (a reconstruction of the god Set) to be God's dark side, Christians seeing God as all good could not accept God as having dark aspects so made the dark side a separate form, what do you think?

We do not believe in living deities

Assuming you're a satanist in the ilk of Anton LaVey, there are so called 'spirtitual' satanists who believe in satan as a real being.

 

[DianeVera]

Many Satanists in general call Lucifer/Satan "The Prince of Darkness". Where does the 'prince' part come from? Why not the King of Darkness, or the Ruler of Darkness? I believe Lucifer shouldn't be degraded to a Prince when he is a King of Kings. Wouldn't you agree?

Interesting question. In my own paradigm, Satan/Azazel is NOT the ultimate cosmic God. I do regard Him as the most powerful of the gods that concern themselves with human affairs. But I believe that the ultimate cosmic God is utterly impersonal. (Note: I certainly do not believe that the entity Christians interact with as "God" is the true cosmic God either.)

For more about my beliefs, see the following articles:

* Theology of the Church of Azazel
* Post-Copernican natural theology

 

[darkenedheart11]

We do not believe in living deities . And even for us Lucifer has a great impact , like I said he is the most important , but you see saying that Lucifer is Satan is just the same thing , for us , like saying that Belial is Satan . Modern satanism use symbolism , Lucifer for example means liberty , will . If you had seen , The Book of Satan , talks about human life wich is supported by some great force , that`s Satan , The Book of Lucifer represent some kind of teachings about how we should handle thimgs , because Lucifer is a teacher of freedom , but he is symbolic .

I'm not interested in you farther educating me on Modern Satanism. I already know enough to come to the conclusion that to me Modern Satanism is 'symbolic' of illogical confusion. If there are no living entities, what about the others like Belial and Leviathan, and all the Infernal Names? Are they all suppose to be 'symbolic' too? Each having specific rituals, strengths, purposes, and attributes, but how can they all all associated with just symbolism? You think that all that power is just in your head? When someone is spiritually attacked, do you think they are just attacking themselves? Then whats the purpose of the Enochian Keys? Whats the purpose of speaking in a specific language (Enochian) meant for demons to understand if you don't believe demons exist? I think that Anton just said that as an attempt to take away the fear in order to get more followers, because he knew that each and every person that had knowledge of Christianity's view of Satan(which would be most people) would fear Satanism and its magick thus acting as a barrier against the promotion and advancement of Satanism. In my opinion most Modern Satanists just want to keep things as simple as possible and they refuse to believe in anything that may cause complications or cause them to see beyond their selfish ego-blinded horizons. Grow some balls and get with the program. They are out there. I've seen some with my own eyes, and I'm damn sure that I didn't create them from within myself.

I'm curious though on how my thread led to this discussion.

 

[Prima]

Interesting question. In my own paradigm, Satan/Azazel is NOT the ultimate cosmic God. I do regard Him as the most powerful of the gods that concern themselves with human affairs. But I believe that the ultimate cosmic God is utterly impersonal. (Note: I certainly do not believe that the entity Christians interact with as "God" is the true cosmic God either.)

Very well said, and interesting point!

Halycon has a great point, too. I personally think that it's important to remember that the traditional names for Satan were greatly influenced, if not created by, the early Jews and Christians. The Messiah is referred to as the 'King of Men' and they didn't want any correlation between Christ and Satan. Similarly, wasn't Satan believed to be the physical embodiment of evil? therefore the ultimate evil would be 'King' and Satan would be 'Prince. Lucifer also was the name of Satan before he 'fell' according to Bibilical mythology. I think that's where some confusion/disagreement comes in sometimes - because obviously the Christian view of Satan doesn't correspond with the Satanist view of Satan!

 

[darkenedheart11]

Maybe they call him the price of darkness because Christians believe God is king and calling Shaitan the king of darkness would kinda make him equal with God, just a thought.
In Christian mythology i imagine Shaitan (a reconstruction of the god Set) to be God's dark side, Christians seeing God as all good could not accept God as having dark aspects so made the dark side a separate form, what do you think?.

Something like that popped in my head too. Perhaps 'The Prince of Darkness' is a Christian label.

As for your theory, I find that to be very interesting, and a possibility of truth. I've never thought of it that way. I'm giving you karma points for using your brain.

 

[darkenedheart11]

Interesting question. In my own paradigm, Satan/Azazel is NOT the ultimate cosmic God. I do regard Him as the most powerful of the gods that concern themselves with human affairs. But I believe that the ultimate cosmic God is utterly impersonal. (Note: I certainly do not believe that the entity Christians interact with as "God" is the true cosmic God either.)

I concur. I believe that gods aren't limited to existing only on the planet earth. I do believe there are deities/spiritual beings who's dominions are not limited to just planets and could possibly have authority over our gods. I wouldn't think Lucifer could just bust up in someone elses territory in another galaxy and start pushing people around, but I do think there are those who could if they wanted to. After all, someone had to have created them also, and I think you will eventually be lead to an ultimate cosmic source. *shrugs* This is where things get deep. The universe is infinite to us, just think of the possibilities.

 

[Era]

Diane Vera , I understand your point , but I repeat , Belial , Lucifer , Leviathan all are representations of Satan. The only difference between us is that we take this representations as pure symbols . Each of them being equaly with some part of universe : earth , water , fire and air . Halcyon , I was not talking about the usual semnification of Lucifer , I know that he represents the light , I was talking about the holl meaning of The Book of Lucifer . You see , he brings the light , but what does that light mean? He is the one that wakes people from the shadows of ilusion given by christianity and not only . In order to free yourself from those mistakes you must have a strong will . The light that Lucifer brings is the free mind . This is why he is the freedom . It`s interesting what you think , but that leads me to agnosticism . Modern satanism is not agnosticism . Are you sure those are real modern satanists? Ok , when people think of LaVey , from the start they don`t think of traditionalism . Many satanists said that Laveyan satanism is in fact atheism , but we must not forget the magic , the ritual and there goes another contradiction , so they say : " how could you perform a ritual in wich , for example you call Lucifer , since we talk about him here, if you do not believe that he is a living deity ? " For modern satanists , magic is field with a lot of human power , the first thing that you need in order to succed you ritual is desire , a strong will . We do not expect to see Lucifer raising in our room , but we do expect that with a strong desire , with strong emotions we can release the kind of energy that Lucifer represents . So the magic comes from us , LaVey said very clear that the only God that one must fear and adore is himself .

 

[Era]

darkenedheart11 , I`m not trying to educate you on anything , I`m not interesting on that , I believe you have a mind of your own , you don`t need other people to do that . But I think it`s just to give you an answer. Tell me what is so confusing in realising that we have a stronger mind than our so called "gods"? Where did you read that people attack themselfs? One sin that modern satanism have is solipsism , do you know what solipsism is , is just what you`ve said . Each of us have a sort of power , some are weak , some are strong . You said that LaVey wanted to take away the fear , the fear of what? Offcourse is more easily to believe in a horned god , who have nothing to do , than just to scare some little people , get serious! What LaVey was trying to do , was just get people to be responsabile for their actions , was that so wrong? How about if we stop praying and waiting for an answer from down bellow when we can start doing something here ?