The Problem of the Holy Spirit

[idea]

I've posted this before, but the "holy spirit" is the author of heaven's gate, and all manner of cults and trouble, not indication of "truth" or healing

The sensation - burning in heart - is elevation
Elevation (emotion) - Wikipedia.

It is a herd bonding instinct - from hives of bees following queen, to wolf pack or herd of deer - it keeps groups together, not from god.

We need a herd, isolation - solitary confinement - is trouble. Social groups and support can be healthy, just so everyone is careful to not get swept up by groups like Nazi... cults...group think... prejudices... thinking one groups is better than other... power/heirarchy trips.

It is not from God. Not "truth", not a protection for individual (protects herd not really individual). Find balance between personal self-reliance, thinking for yourself, and belonging is the trick.

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

I see it a little differently.

If "I" is just the conscious self then certainly we predominately are at the whims of our unconscious processes. However I see the "I" as the entire being which include those unconscious processes.

Though perhaps we cannot directly control these unconscious process, it seems we can exert some conscious influence on them. If so, I don't think we can rightly say we are simply victims of our unconscious overlords.

Well, yes. I understand what you are saying and it is a part of it, so we sort off agree.

 

[PearlSeeker]

God grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change,
courage to change the things I can,
and wisdom to know the difference.
(The Serenity Prayer)

Pray as though everything depended on God. Work as though everything depended on you.
(St. Augustine)

 

[Ella S.]

Well, in a strict sense for cause and effect and the problem of free will and "I", we don't control anything. We just have processes that produces the narrative of choices and "I".

I agree with this, but when I speak about notions of "I" or "you" I am describing an emergent phenomenon that is an abstraction of a collection of discrete entities and forces.

Of course, the "choice" we make is pre-ordained, but there's still an aspect of cognition that can be described as "choosing" or "descision-making" in the same way that a computer algorithm can be described as "deciding what to output based on a given input."

These are simply controversial statements that I thought were unnecessary to qualify for the sake of this particular discussion.

 

[Stonetree]

Isn't that the idea is some beliefs, to surrender their life to God?
Certainly it can be comforting to let go of the responsibility for one's life. "Thy will be done on earth as it is in heaven".

The question is, which predicts a better future. One were you have faith that God will take care of you or one where you take responsibility to gather information related to your situation so you can make informed decisions?

Either way, life continues, events happen, good or bad and we deal with the results.
However, have you not heard this prayer?

Father, give us courage to change what must be altered, serenity to accept what cannot be helped, and the insight to know the one from the other.

There are aspects of the world we can control. Act upon. Wouldn't it be better to know how best to act on those aspects of our world we can control?

Or is "insight" something you have to wait for God to provide?
To be inspired? to Feel the call to act?

God will help those that help themselves......An old saying

 

[Stonetree]

I see wisdom in many of the past responses to this thread. I have to suggest the history of mankind displays man making the same mistakes over and over again. Probabilities of what decisions man will choose are no different today than those that were evident for our ancestors that predate homo sapiens, even predate primates.

 

[Muffled]

I believe the most highly desired result is Islam, hearing and obeying God. The Holy Spirit is a stop gap measure to prepare people for the Kingdom of God which is coming soon.

 

[Muffled]

God teaches us to use both.

Medicine based on good science, using where possible good natural medicine and hot and cold waters, all backed with Prayer.

No prayer will cut our cancer, nor sow back on an arm. But the power of prayer can aid in the healing process, the power of positive thought and actions.

Regards Tony

I believe you are wrong. God can do anything He wishes and that includes eliminating cancer and growing back limbs.

 

[Muffled]

I don't know about other religions but according to my belief you put faith in both the doctor and holy spirit.
There is a verse that says Kings would not be Kings if not given that power by God.
and also a verse which says to obey kings.
Therefore if obeying a king is commandment so is obeying a doctor, like king is above you so is the doctor above your sickness.
This doesn't therefore mean I have to give up on reason, a doctor may not be faithful at all.

I believe the Holy Spirit will let you know if you need to pray or do something different. When I had Covid-19 I was not allowed to go to a doctor or a hospital. Thank God prayer did the trick.

 

[Nakosis]

God will help those that help themselves......An old saying

Is that regardless of whether they believe in God or not?

 

[Stonetree]

Is that regardless of whether they believe in God or not?

I seem to have missed any direct communication from any deity. I can forward your question but don't hold your breath for a reply.

 

[Nakosis]

I seem to have missed any direct communication from any deity. I can forward your question but don't hold your breath for a reply.

Ok, but if one is helping themselves, do they really need God's help?

 

[Stonetree]

Ok, but if one is helping themselves, do they really need God's help?

I think the old saying about 'helping yourself' implies that a person is responsible for their actions, and should not place that responsibility on another person or even God....I understand the point of your question. Even Theists may believe there are some chores or responsibilities that one does not need the help of one's God. There are some difficult situations that a Theist would hope and even pray for help from their God....There is an underlying concern that I must state. The human mind, even the smartest mind, is limited to its ability to comprehend or answer so many questions. For anyone TO KNOW whether there is a God or there isn't a god is impossible without truly reliable evidence....I wish I could accept either side of the debate: Atheism vs. Theism...It seems to be above my pay- grade.