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The Professor Said That There Is No God. The Student Gave Him an Awesome Answer!

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Einstein's reaction to Heisenberg indeterminacy was "God doesn't play dice with the universe." However, in order for there to be free will, there has to be indeterminacy of what thoughts will take place in your brain, thoughts being manifestations or electron transitions in the chemical actions in neurons. This removes the logical right to dismiss consciousness as a purely cause-and-effect series of fixed destiny and the dismissal of sort of god or spirit. It proves that we don't know and even the premises such as all-powerful and controlling everything do not hold. I admit I am no match wor the mysteries they are talking about.
 

Milton Platt

Well-Known Member
Einstein's reaction to Heisenberg indeterminacy was "God doesn't play dice with the universe." However, in order for there to be free will, there has to be indeterminacy of what thoughts will take place in your brain, thoughts being manifestations or electron transitions in the chemical actions in neurons. This removes the logical right to dismiss consciousness as a purely cause-and-effect series of fixed destiny and the dismissal of sort of god or spirit. It proves that we don't know and even the premises such as all-powerful and controlling everything do not hold. I admit I am no match wor the mysteries they are talking about.

Not sure where your comment ties into the thread, but interesting nonetheless. Just a reminder, though, to be careful with appeals to authority. Einstein could be wrong about that. I am not trying to argue that he is wrong in this instance, because frankly I do not know.....I'm just saying.....
 

Milton Platt

Well-Known Member
As you say Einstein probably wasn`t a Christian , although this story or quote is just a logical deduction , not necessarily a Christian statement .

However

Jesus was a jew , the disciples were Jews ,most of the 3000 converted in one day in Acts were Jews, today they are called Messianic Jews , which is what all Jews ideally would all be , rather than being in rebellion against God .

There is no sound logic to be found in the story

There is no good readon to think the story in Acts is an actual event.

The story in Acts would have nothing to do with Einstein's religiosity.
 

Kuzcotopia

If you can read this, you are as lucky as I am.
LOL...regardless of the authenticity, I still think its a great argument.

So you're not with Einstein?

It seems the crux of your OP was that Einstein's identity was an important point. As if the design of the thread was to claim the authority of Einstein through a Ethos based argument.

Now that the Ethos based argument has no merit, you want to fall back on the Logos of the fictional argument?

Cool. Just wanted to be sure.
 

Kilgore Trout

Misanthropic Humanist
Anyone smart enough to see the flaws in the "arguments" is likely sharp enough to see that the story is clearly fictional. Unfortunately, the opposite also applies.
 

Shadow Wolf

Certified People sTabber & Business Owner
This thread is sad. Einstein did not do what the OP claims, and he was not a Christian or religious Jew (being of Jewish ethnicity does not automatically make one a religious-practicing Jew). His "god" was similar to Spinoza's pantheism, and he actually wrote he felt belief in a personal deity and an afterlife was foolish and childish.
 
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metis

aged ecumenical anthropologist
I believe I read the OP about 40 or so years ago, and I thought it was trash then and I know it is trash now. It is a nearly complete misportrayal of what Einstein actually did "believe" in, namely "Spinoza's God":
Albert Einstein's religious views have been widely studied and oftentimes misunderstood. Einstein stated that he believed in the pantheistic God of Baruch Spinoza... He clarified however that, "I am not an atheist", preferring to call himself an agnostic, or a "religious nonbeliever." ...

Einstein used many labels to describe his religious views, including "agnostic", "religious nonbeliever" and a believer in "Spinoza's God". Although he expressed his conception of God as "pantheistic" he also stated, "I do not think I can call myself a pantheist." Einstein believed the problem of God was the "most difficult in the world"—a question that could not be answered "simply with yes or no." He conceded that, "the problem involved is too vast for our limited minds."
.-- Religious and philosophical views of Albert Einstein - Wikipedia
 

Lorgar-Aurelian

Active Member
I have read this before, but thought I'd share it.....you cannot argue with this student's logic.


An atheist professor of philosophy pauses before his class and then asks one of his new students to stand:



‘You’re a Christian, aren’t you, son?’

‘Yes sir,’ the student says.

‘So you believe in God?’

‘Absolutely. ’

‘Is God good?’

‘Sure! God’s good.’

‘Is God all-powerful? Can God do anything?’

‘Yes.’

‘Are you good or evil?’

‘The Bible says I’m evil.’

The professor grins knowingly. ‘Aha! The Bible! He considers for a moment. ‘Here’s one for you. Let’s say there’s a sick person over here and you can cure him. You can do it. Would you help him? Would you try?’

‘Yes sir, I would.’

‘So you’re good…!’

‘I wouldn’t say that.’

‘But why not say that? You’d help a sick and maimed person if you could. Most of us would if we could. But God doesn’t.’

The student does not answer, so the professor continues. ‘He doesn’t, does he? My brother was a Christian who died of cancer, even though he prayed to Jesus to heal him. How is this Jesus good? Can you answer that one?’

The student remains silent. ‘No, you can’t, can you?’ the professor says. He takes a sip of water from a glass on his desk to give the student time to relax ‘Let’s start again, young fella. Is God good?’

‘Er…yes,’ the student says.

‘Is Satan good?’

The student doesn’t hesitate on this one. ‘No.’

‘Then where does Satan come from?’

The student falters. ‘From God’

‘That’s right. God made Satan, didn’t he? Tell me, son. Is there evil in this world?’

‘Yes, sir…’

‘Evil’s everywhere, isn’t it? And God did make everything, correct?’

‘Yes.’

‘So who created evil?’ The professor continued, ‘If God created everything, then God created evil, since evil exists, and according to the principle that our works define who we are, then God is evil.’

Again, the student has no answer. ‘Is there sickness? Immorality? Hatred? Ugliness? All these terrible things, do they exist in this world?’

The student squirms on his feet. ‘Yes.’

‘So who created them?’

The student does not answer again, so the professor repeats his question. ‘Who created them?’ There is still no answer. Suddenly the lecturer breaks away to pace in front of the classroom. The class is mesmerized. ‘Tell me,’ he continues onto another student. ‘Do you believe in Jesus Christ, son?’

The student’s voice betrays him and cracks. ‘Yes, professor, I do.’

The old man stops pacing. ‘Science says you have five senses you use to identify and observe the world around you. Have you ever seen Jesus?’

‘No sir. I’ve never seen Him.’

‘Then tell us if you’ve ever heard your Jesus?’

‘No, sir, I have not…’

‘Have you ever felt your Jesus, tasted your Jesus or smelt your Jesus? Have you ever had any sensory perception of Jesus Christ, or God for that matter?’

‘No, sir, I’m afraid I haven’t.’

‘Yet you still believe in him?’

‘Yes.’

‘According to the rules of empirical, testable, demonstrable protocol, science says your God doesn’t exist… What do you say to that, son?’

‘Nothing,’ the student replies… ‘I only have my faith.’

‘Yes, faith,’ the professor repeats. ‘And that is the problem science has with God. There is no evidence…only faith.’

The student stands quietly for a moment, before asking a question of His own. ‘Professor, is there such thing as heat? ’

‘Yes.’

‘And is there such a thing as cold?’

‘Yes, son, there’s cold too.’

‘No sir, there isn’t.’

The professor turns to face the student, obviously interested. The room suddenly becomes very quiet. The student begins to explain. ‘You can have lots of heat, even more heat, super-heat, mega-heat, unlimited heat, white heat, a little heat or no heat, but we don’t have anything called ‘cold’. We can hit d own to 458 degrees below zero, which is no heat, but we can’t go any further after that. There is no such thing as cold; otherwise we would be able to go colder than the lowest –458 degrees. Every body or object is susceptible to study when it has or transmits energy, and heat is what makes a body or matter have or transmit energy. Absolute zero (-458 F) is the total absence of heat. You see, sir, ‘cold’ is only a word we use to describe the absence of heat. We cannot measure cold. Heat we can measure in thermal units because heat is energy. Cold is not the opposite of heat, sir, just the absence of it.’

Silence across the room. A pen drops somewhere in the classroom, sounding like a hammer.

‘What about darkness, professor. Is there such a thing as darkness?’

‘Yes,’ the professor replies without hesitation… ‘What is night if it isn’t darkness?’

‘You’re wrong again, sir. Darkness is not something; it is the absence of something. You can have low light, normal light, bright light, flashing light, but if you have no light constantly you have nothing and it’s called darkness, isn’t it? That’s the meaning we use to define the word. In reality, darkness isn’t. If it were, you would be able to make darkness darker, wouldn’t you?’

The professor begins to smile at the student in front of him. This will be a good semester. ‘So what point are you making, young man?’

‘Yes, professor. My point is, your philosophical premise is flawed to start with, and so your conclusion must also be flawed.’

The professor’s face cannot hide his surprise this time. ‘Flawed? Can you explain how?’

‘You are working on the premise of duality,’ the student explains… ‘You argue that there is life and then there’s death; a good God and a bad God. You are viewing the concept of God as something finite, something we can measure. Sir, science can’t even explain a thought. It uses electricity and magnetism, but it has never seen, much less fully understood either one. To view death as the opposite of life is to be ignorant of the fact that death cannot exist as a substantive thing. Death is not the opposite of life, just the absence of it.’

‘Now tell me, professor… Do you teach your students that they evolved from a monkey?’

‘If you are referring to the natural evolutionary process, young man, yes, of course I do.’

‘Have you ever observed evolution with your own eyes, sir?’

The professor begins to shake his head, still smiling, as he realizes where the argument is going. A very good semester, indeed.

‘Since no one has ever observed the process of evolution at work and cannot even prove that this process is an on-going endeavor, are you not teaching your opinion, sir? Are you now not a scientist, but a preacher?’

The class is in uproar. The student remains silent until the commotion has subsided. ‘To continue the point you were making earlier to the other student, let me give you an example of what I mean.’ The student looks around the room. ‘Is there anyone in the class who has ever seen the professor’s brain?’ The class breaks out into laughter. ‘Is there anyone here who has ever heard the professor’s brain, felt the professor’s brain, touched or smelt the professor’s brain? No one appears to have done so. So, according to the established rules of empirical, stable, demonstrable protocol, science says that you have no brain, with all due respect, sir.’ ‘So if science says you have no brain, how can we trust your lectures, sir?’

Now the room is silent. The professor just stares at the student, his face unreadable. Finally, after what seems an eternity, the old man answers. ‘I guess you’ll have to take them on faith.’

‘Now, you accept that there is faith, and, in fact, faith exists with life,’ the student continues. ‘Now, sir, is there such a thing as evil?’ Now uncertain, the professor responds, ‘Of course, there is. We see it every day. It is in the daily example of man’s inhumanity to man. It is in the multitude of crime and violence everywhere in the world. These manifestations are nothing else but evil.’

To this the student replied, ‘Evil does not exist sir, or at least it does not exist unto itself. Evil is simply the absence of God. It is just like darkness and cold, a word that man has created to describe the absence of God. God did not create evil Evil is the result of what happens when man does not have God’s love present in his heart. It’s like the cold that comes when there is no heat or the darkness that comes when there is no light.’

The professor sat down.

The student was Albert Einstein. :D I'm with Einstein.
There is pretty much no evidence to suggest that Einstein actually said this. On top of this Einstein was not a Christian. He was jewish during his childhood the concept of the Christian satan would of been foreign to him. On top of all this none of this is an argument for god actually being good.

If you stop and think about it, even if it's just the absence of god ( which kind of defeats the whole omnipresent thing doesn't it?) God is still allowing all this to happen. God is all knowing, all powerful , everywhere. In other words it is impossible for all of this to not be God's fault.

Do Jews Believe in Satan?
 

David T

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
There's nothing worse than perpetuating pseudo-history. I understand you probably didn't know, but would it have killed you to check first..?
That would be logically inconsistent with the original post! It was posted based on believe and calling it faith. Two separate but confusing terms blended!!!
 

viole

Ontological Naturalist
Premium Member
I have read this before, but thought I'd share it.....you cannot argue with this student's logic.

‘Yes, professor. My point is, your philosophical premise is flawed to start with, and so your conclusion must also be flawed.’
.

You cannot argue with that student's logic? I think it is pretty clear that logic is not exactly his forte. He actually looks quite challenged in that.

It is obvious that if a premise is flawed, that does not entail that the conclusions are flawed, too. Despite his claim that they must be.

If I assume that i have 1 dollar in my left pocket and 3 dollars in my right one, I can conclude that I have a total of 4 dollars. But I can have 4 dollars also if I have 2 dollars in each of the pockets. Ergo, the conclusion can be true, even if the premises are not.

So, we can conclude that he was not Einstein. Unless we believe that Einstein was challenged in basic inferential logic.

Ciao

- viole
 
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ThePainefulTruth

Romantic-Cynic
I have read this before, but thought I'd share it.....you cannot argue with this student's logic.


An atheist professor of philosophy pauses before his class and then asks one of his new students to stand:



‘You’re a Christian, aren’t you, son?’

‘Yes sir,’ the student says.

‘So you believe in God?’

‘Absolutely. ’

‘Is God good?’

‘Sure! God’s good.’

‘Is God all-powerful? Can God do anything?’

‘Yes.’

‘Are you good or evil?’

‘The Bible says I’m evil.’

The professor grins knowingly. ‘Aha! The Bible! He considers for a moment. ‘Here’s one for you. Let’s say there’s a sick person over here and you can cure him. You can do it. Would you help him? Would you try?’

‘Yes sir, I would.’

‘So you’re good…!’

‘I wouldn’t say that.’

‘But why not say that? You’d help a sick and maimed person if you could. Most of us would if we could. But God doesn’t.’

The student does not answer, so the professor continues. ‘He doesn’t, does he? My brother was a Christian who died of cancer, even though he prayed to Jesus to heal him. How is this Jesus good? Can you answer that one?’

The student remains silent. ‘No, you can’t, can you?’ the professor says. He takes a sip of water from a glass on his desk to give the student time to relax ‘Let’s start again, young fella. Is God good?’

‘Er…yes,’ the student says.

‘Is Satan good?’

The student doesn’t hesitate on this one. ‘No.’

‘Then where does Satan come from?’

The student falters. ‘From God’

‘That’s right. God made Satan, didn’t he? Tell me, son. Is there evil in this world?’

‘Yes, sir…’

‘Evil’s everywhere, isn’t it? And God did make everything, correct?’

‘Yes.’

‘So who created evil?’ The professor continued, ‘If God created everything, then God created evil, since evil exists, and according to the principle that our works define who we are, then God is evil.’

Again, the student has no answer. ‘Is there sickness? Immorality? Hatred? Ugliness? All these terrible things, do they exist in this world?’

The student squirms on his feet. ‘Yes.’

‘So who created them?’

The student does not answer again, so the professor repeats his question. ‘Who created them?’ There is still no answer. Suddenly the lecturer breaks away to pace in front of the classroom. The class is mesmerized. ‘Tell me,’ he continues onto another student. ‘Do you believe in Jesus Christ, son?’

The student’s voice betrays him and cracks. ‘Yes, professor, I do.’

The old man stops pacing. ‘Science says you have five senses you use to identify and observe the world around you. Have you ever seen Jesus?’

‘No sir. I’ve never seen Him.’

‘Then tell us if you’ve ever heard your Jesus?’

‘No, sir, I have not…’

‘Have you ever felt your Jesus, tasted your Jesus or smelt your Jesus? Have you ever had any sensory perception of Jesus Christ, or God for that matter?’

‘No, sir, I’m afraid I haven’t.’

‘Yet you still believe in him?’

‘Yes.’

‘According to the rules of empirical, testable, demonstrable protocol, science says your God doesn’t exist… What do you say to that, son?’

‘Nothing,’ the student replies… ‘I only have my faith.’

‘Yes, faith,’ the professor repeats. ‘And that is the problem science has with God. There is no evidence…only faith.’

The student stands quietly for a moment, before asking a question of His own. ‘Professor, is there such thing as heat? ’

‘Yes.’

‘And is there such a thing as cold?’

‘Yes, son, there’s cold too.’

‘No sir, there isn’t.’

The professor turns to face the student, obviously interested. The room suddenly becomes very quiet. The student begins to explain. ‘You can have lots of heat, even more heat, super-heat, mega-heat, unlimited heat, white heat, a little heat or no heat, but we don’t have anything called ‘cold’. We can hit d own to 458 degrees below zero, which is no heat, but we can’t go any further after that. There is no such thing as cold; otherwise we would be able to go colder than the lowest –458 degrees. Every body or object is susceptible to study when it has or transmits energy, and heat is what makes a body or matter have or transmit energy. Absolute zero (-458 F) is the total absence of heat. You see, sir, ‘cold’ is only a word we use to describe the absence of heat. We cannot measure cold. Heat we can measure in thermal units because heat is energy. Cold is not the opposite of heat, sir, just the absence of it.’

Silence across the room. A pen drops somewhere in the classroom, sounding like a hammer.

‘What about darkness, professor. Is there such a thing as darkness?’

‘Yes,’ the professor replies without hesitation… ‘What is night if it isn’t darkness?’

‘You’re wrong again, sir. Darkness is not something; it is the absence of something. You can have low light, normal light, bright light, flashing light, but if you have no light constantly you have nothing and it’s called darkness, isn’t it? That’s the meaning we use to define the word. In reality, darkness isn’t. If it were, you would be able to make darkness darker, wouldn’t you?’

The professor begins to smile at the student in front of him. This will be a good semester. ‘So what point are you making, young man?’

‘Yes, professor. My point is, your philosophical premise is flawed to start with, and so your conclusion must also be flawed.’

The professor’s face cannot hide his surprise this time. ‘Flawed? Can you explain how?’

‘You are working on the premise of duality,’ the student explains… ‘You argue that there is life and then there’s death; a good God and a bad God. You are viewing the concept of God as something finite, something we can measure. Sir, science can’t even explain a thought. It uses electricity and magnetism, but it has never seen, much less fully understood either one. To view death as the opposite of life is to be ignorant of the fact that death cannot exist as a substantive thing. Death is not the opposite of life, just the absence of it.’

‘Now tell me, professor… Do you teach your students that they evolved from a monkey?’

‘If you are referring to the natural evolutionary process, young man, yes, of course I do.’

‘Have you ever observed evolution with your own eyes, sir?’

The professor begins to shake his head, still smiling, as he realizes where the argument is going. A very good semester, indeed.

‘Since no one has ever observed the process of evolution at work and cannot even prove that this process is an on-going endeavor, are you not teaching your opinion, sir? Are you now not a scientist, but a preacher?’

The class is in uproar. The student remains silent until the commotion has subsided. ‘To continue the point you were making earlier to the other student, let me give you an example of what I mean.’ The student looks around the room. ‘Is there anyone in the class who has ever seen the professor’s brain?’ The class breaks out into laughter. ‘Is there anyone here who has ever heard the professor’s brain, felt the professor’s brain, touched or smelt the professor’s brain? No one appears to have done so. So, according to the established rules of empirical, stable, demonstrable protocol, science says that you have no brain, with all due respect, sir.’ ‘So if science says you have no brain, how can we trust your lectures, sir?’

Now the room is silent. The professor just stares at the student, his face unreadable. Finally, after what seems an eternity, the old man answers. ‘I guess you’ll have to take them on faith.’

‘Now, you accept that there is faith, and, in fact, faith exists with life,’ the student continues. ‘Now, sir, is there such a thing as evil?’ Now uncertain, the professor responds, ‘Of course, there is. We see it every day. It is in the daily example of man’s inhumanity to man. It is in the multitude of crime and violence everywhere in the world. These manifestations are nothing else but evil.’

To this the student replied, ‘Evil does not exist sir, or at least it does not exist unto itself. Evil is simply the absence of God. It is just like darkness and cold, a word that man has created to describe the absence of God. God did not create evil Evil is the result of what happens when man does not have God’s love present in his heart. It’s like the cold that comes when there is no heat or the darkness that comes when there is no light.’

The professor sat down.

The student was Albert Einstein. :D I'm with Einstein.

The professor, essentially disproved a personal interactive God, that's all. There is a "good" reason God doesn't interact, but neither atheists nor theists want to know what that might be.
 

stevevw

Member
Is that the same Einstein who in 1954 wrote...

"… It was, of course, a lie what you read about my religious convictions, a lie which is being systematically repeated. I do not believe in a personal God and I have never denied this but have expressed it clearly. If something is in me which can be called religious then it is the unbounded admiration for the structure of the world so far as our science can reveal it."

and

“I have repeatedly said that in my opinion the idea of a personal God is a childlike one,” he wrote to a man who corresponded with him on the subject twice in the 1940s. “You may call me an agnostic, but I do not share the crusading spirit of the professional atheist. … I prefer an attitude of humility corresponding to the weakness of our intellectual understanding of nature and of our own being.”
Yes and its the same Einstein that said
“I believe in Spinoza’s God who reveals himself in the orderly harmony of what exists, not in a God who concerns himself with fates and actions of human beings.”4

“In view of such harmony in the cosmos which I, with my limited human mind, am able to recognize, there are yet people who say there is no God. But what really makes me angry is that they quote me for the support of such views.”5

“I’m not an atheist and I don’t think I can call myself a pantheist. We are in the position of a little child entering a huge library filled with books in many languages. The child knows someone must have written those books. It does not know how. It does not understand the languages in which they are written. The child dimly suspects a mysterious order in the arrangements of the books, but doesn’t know what it is. That, it seems to me, is the attitude of even the most intelligent human being toward God.”6

******Albert Einstein received instruction in both Christianity (at a Roman Catholic school) and Judaism (his family of origin). When interviewed by the Saturday Evening Post in 1929, Einstein was asked what he thought of Christianity.*****

“To what extent are you influenced by Christianity?”
“As a child I received instruction both in the Bible and in the Talmud. I am a Jew, but I am enthralled by the luminous figure of the Nazarene.”
“Have you read Emil Ludwig’s book on Jesus?”
“Emil Ludwig’s Jesus is shallow. Jesus is too colossal for the pen of phrasemongers, however artful. No man can dispose of Christianity with a bon mot!”
“You accept the historical existence of Jesus?”
“Unquestionably! No one can read the Gospels without feeling the actual presence of Jesus. His personality pulsates in every word. No myth is filled with such life.”7
 

Altfish

Veteran Member
Yes and its the same Einstein that said
“I believe in Spinoza’s God who reveals himself in the orderly harmony of what exists, not in a God who concerns himself with fates and actions of human beings.”4

“In view of such harmony in the cosmos which I, with my limited human mind, am able to recognize, there are yet people who say there is no God. But what really makes me angry is that they quote me for the support of such views.”5

“I’m not an atheist and I don’t think I can call myself a pantheist. We are in the position of a little child entering a huge library filled with books in many languages. The child knows someone must have written those books. It does not know how. It does not understand the languages in which they are written. The child dimly suspects a mysterious order in the arrangements of the books, but doesn’t know what it is. That, it seems to me, is the attitude of even the most intelligent human being toward God.”6

******Albert Einstein received instruction in both Christianity (at a Roman Catholic school) and Judaism (his family of origin). When interviewed by the Saturday Evening Post in 1929, Einstein was asked what he thought of Christianity.*****

“To what extent are you influenced by Christianity?”
“As a child I received instruction both in the Bible and in the Talmud. I am a Jew, but I am enthralled by the luminous figure of the Nazarene.”
“Have you read Emil Ludwig’s book on Jesus?”
“Emil Ludwig’s Jesus is shallow. Jesus is too colossal for the pen of phrasemongers, however artful. No man can dispose of Christianity with a bon mot!”
“You accept the historical existence of Jesus?”
“Unquestionably! No one can read the Gospels without feeling the actual presence of Jesus. His personality pulsates in every word. No myth is filled with such life.”7
So we have possibly provided evidence that probably the greatest scientist of the 20th century kept changing his mind about religion. Hardly a hard core theist.
Where he was educated is totally irrelevant; I was educated at a CofE school, I'm now an atheist.
 

Segev Moran

Well-Known Member
Nice (fictional) story, yet...

you cannot argue with this student's logic.

Sure you can ;)

An atheist professor of philosophy pauses before his class and then asks one of his new students to stand:
Here is your first problem. A professor of philosohpy can be a great philosopher, yet it suggests nothing about his scientific knowledge...
‘Sure! God’s good.’
Well.. I would debate that (assuming by God we mean the Christian God)...
Humans' way of defining good and bad are based on many many things... God or "Absolute good", is not one of them.
Each and every step along history that we considered to be a "moral" advancement, was initiated due to people realizing more and more about the human nature.

How rude it is to deny millions of people who many times died fighting for an idea later on "hijacked" to the benefit of God?
God didn't stop slavery! it was endless number of people who died fighting for liberation.

To claim the God is good, means two things:
1. You know God personalty, and you are absolutely sure that there is no Bad in god.(Judging by its books, one could argue against it quite easily)
2. That you know what Good is without basing it on the belief that God is good thus Good is what God wants.

In other words, The argument of: "Good is what god wants, and God is good. Good is God because God says it is Good." (Fallacy something?)

‘Is God all-powerful? Can God do anything?’
‘Yes.’
Again, Quite debatable :) In order to know if God really is all powerful, you have to know what are all the "powers" working in existence, and only if God out measures them all, it really is all powerful. Again, You cannot claim God's claim of being all powerful as an evidence that God is all powerful.

Throughout the books, And the different myths, God makes wonders and Claiming he is all powerful. but what if it is not really all powerful? What if it can't make English speaking dinosaurs? and somewhere in the universe there is a creature that can?

What if God is only one of several and it is "Faking" it to being only the one God?

‘Are you good or evil?’
‘The Bible says I’m evil.’
Dear god!!!
How sad it is that there are children who actually think like that!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I Give everything in my power to teach my kids that are good, and no matter what they do, as long as they respect other beings (Humans or not), and will do their best not to harm others, THEY ARE GOOD!!!!
If one of them even starts thinking he is evil, how sad will it be if I told him, Indeed you are!
The professor grins knowingly. ‘Aha! The Bible! He considers for a moment. ‘Here’s one for you. Let’s say there’s a sick person over here and you can cure him. You can do it. Would you help him? Would you try?’
I'd say this professor is far from bright, huh?
‘So you’re good…!’
‘I wouldn’t say that.’
I Have to agree with the student on that one :)

‘But why not say that? You’d help a sick and maimed person if you could. Most of us would if we could. But God doesn’t.’
Yeah... you know, because it doesn't really exist! This professor doesn't really sound like an atheist ;)
‘According to the rules of empirical, testable, demonstrable protocol, science says your God doesn’t exist… What do you say to that, son?’
Really? I Would love to see the scientific theory proving God doesn't exist...

FYI: Science invests countless of efforts to try and prove God! Actually, it probably started with that in mind.
The thing is, that no matter where we search (On earth and out side of it), there is not one evidence of anything suggesting of a godly presence.

god doesn't claim there is no God, Science claims there is yet an evidence that proved a god/s.

I Hope I don't have to explain the big difference.

‘Nothing,’ the student replies… ‘I only have my faith.’
And my entire life as a child where my parents and community or whatever shoved to my brain whatever they thought as the absolute truth yet never really bothered to verify it ;)

‘Yes, faith,’ the professor repeats. ‘And that is the problem science has with God. There is no evidence…only faith.’
Not really a problem. I fear theist quite often claim that science hates God or denies God or whatever..
All science claims is, So far, based on everything we know (Which is probably very little), there hasn't been even one small OBJECTIVE evidence regarding God (J, C, M or any other for that matter)
The student stands quietly for a moment, before asking a question of His own. ‘Professor, is there such thing as heat? ’
‘Yes.’
Agree! :)
‘And is there such a thing as cold?’
‘Yes, son, there’s cold too.’
Actually, There is...
Cold and Hot are relative!
Cold, is not Hot. same as Hot, is not Cold.

Cold, might be in reality a lack of energy, but is an actual term.

And we don't really know how cold things can get. There are some suggestions that going below absolute zero temperature might be possible.
So the entire claim is valid only if adding : Based on what we know today!

‘No sir, there isn’t.’
Are you sure??? HA HA HA HA

‘What about darkness, professor. Is there such a thing as darkness?’
Same thing,
This professor for philosophy, really isn't much of a philosopher it seems.

‘Yes,’ the professor replies without hesitation… ‘What is night if it isn’t darkness?’
Lol... nope.. night is NOT darkness!

‘You argue that there is life and then there’s death;
Indeed there are...
Although one doesn't represent the opposite of the other.. duh!

a good God and a bad God.
Or a No God???

Sir, science can’t even explain a thought.
Yet! Although science is getting closer everyday ;)

It uses electricity and magnetism, but it has never seen, much less fully understood either one.
Yet! ... see the pattern here? ;)
To view death as the opposite of life is to be ignorant
I Agree!
Death is the end of life.. not the opposite of it.

This would be like saying:

the opposite of being awake, is going to sleep... nope.. the opposite of awake, is sleeping, So you could say that:

Being dead, is the opposite of being alive... But this is also not the precise term, as not being born yet is also not being alive.... ;)

of the fact that death cannot exist as a substantive thing. Death is not the opposite of life, just the absence of it.’
Ehh.. nope... Death... is not the absence of Life!
Death is the termination of life :)

‘Now tell me, professor… Do you teach your students that they evolved from a monkey?’
Lol... I sure hope no!!!
For two reasons:

1. We are not evolved from a monkey! lol... We are evolved from an ancient COMMON ANCESTOR..
2. Why would a philosophy professor be teaching evolution??? ;)

‘Have you ever observed evolution with your own eyes, sir?’
Lol... really? you can see it on a daily basis!
Your eyes do have to be open though!

There are thousands upon thousands of demonstrable, observable evidences that prove evolution.

‘Since no one has ever observed the process of evolution at work
Yet we did and still do.
and cannot even prove that this process is an on-going endeavor
Lol...
So let me get this straight...
This logic claims this:

The fact some process is happening for a few hundreds of millions of years, doesn't suggest it is like so before, rather the LOGICAL ( ??? ) conclusion should be:

Its been like that only for a few thousands of years but only looks like it tool millions???

or, in other words... If it looks like a duck, quacks like a duck, walks like a duck, sounds like a duck, acts like a duck, has a DNA of a duck, demonstrate every treat any other duck has.. It is not logical to claim that it is a duck???

are you not teaching your opinion, sir? Are you now not a scientist, but a preacher?’

He does!!! he is a philosophy professor!!! Geez ;)

The student looks around the room. ‘Is there anyone in the class who has ever seen the professor’s brain?’ The class breaks out into laughter. ‘Is there anyone here who has ever heard the professor’s brain, felt the professor’s brain, touched or smelt the professor’s brain? No one appears to have done so. So, according to the established rules of empirical, stable, demonstrable protocol, science says that you have no brain, with all due respect, sir.’ ‘So if science says you have no brain, how can we trust your lectures, sir?’

Wow!!! Amazing!

Lets look at this in another perspective:

All people in the world (Maybe excluding some ;) ), have a brain.
How do we know that?
1: if a baby was monitored and it was showing it got no brain.. I am pretty sure the doctors will notice ;)
2: Shockingly.. Every person until today that was examined, shows it has a brain.. Wow!!!!

On the other hand:

Have you ever seen ANY god somewhere?
Have you ever saw any counter-physical miracle?
Have you ever witnessed any proven miraculous action? (proven - meaning it can be demonstrated over and over again!)

Hope you understand the way i'm going with this...

I guess you’ll have to take them on faith.
There are ZERO valid scientific theories that are based on faith.. Not even one

‘Now, you accept that there is faith,
When did he claim there is no faith???

and, in fact, faith exists with life
??? What ???

‘Evil does not exist sir, or at least it does not exist unto itself. Evil is simply the absence of God.

Really? Oh my god!!! That the proof that God is good!!!!
Oh, Wait!!! But what is Evil??? Oh.. Right! Evil is everything that God is not!
Lol

It is just like darkness and cold,
Ehhhh.. nope again!
You can measure heat!!!
You can measure Light!!!
YOU CAN'T MEASURE EVIL!!!

The professor sat down.

For sure! He just realized how bad of a teacher he is ;)

The student was Albert Einstein.

Yeah.. LMAO! I doubt that :) :) :)
 
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meghanwaterlillies

Well-Known Member
I have read this before, but thought I'd share it.....you cannot argue with this student's logic.


An atheist professor of philosophy pauses before his class and then asks one of his new students to stand:



‘You’re a Christian, aren’t you, son?’

‘Yes sir,’ the student says.

‘So you believe in God?’

‘Absolutely. ’

‘Is God good?’

‘Sure! God’s good.’

‘Is God all-powerful? Can God do anything?’

‘Yes.’

‘Are you good or evil?’

‘The Bible says I’m evil.’

The professor grins knowingly. ‘Aha! The Bible! He considers for a moment. ‘Here’s one for you. Let’s say there’s a sick person over here and you can cure him. You can do it. Would you help him? Would you try?’

‘Yes sir, I would.’

‘So you’re good…!’

‘I wouldn’t say that.’

‘But why not say that? You’d help a sick and maimed person if you could. Most of us would if we could. But God doesn’t.’

The student does not answer, so the professor continues. ‘He doesn’t, does he? My brother was a Christian who died of cancer, even though he prayed to Jesus to heal him. How is this Jesus good? Can you answer that one?’

The student remains silent. ‘No, you can’t, can you?’ the professor says. He takes a sip of water from a glass on his desk to give the student time to relax ‘Let’s start again, young fella. Is God good?’

‘Er…yes,’ the student says.

‘Is Satan good?’

The student doesn’t hesitate on this one. ‘No.’

‘Then where does Satan come from?’

The student falters. ‘From God’

‘That’s right. God made Satan, didn’t he? Tell me, son. Is there evil in this world?’

‘Yes, sir…’

‘Evil’s everywhere, isn’t it? And God did make everything, correct?’

‘Yes.’

‘So who created evil?’ The professor continued, ‘If God created everything, then God created evil, since evil exists, and according to the principle that our works define who we are, then God is evil.’

Again, the student has no answer. ‘Is there sickness? Immorality? Hatred? Ugliness? All these terrible things, do they exist in this world?’

The student squirms on his feet. ‘Yes.’

‘So who created them?’

The student does not answer again, so the professor repeats his question. ‘Who created them?’ There is still no answer. Suddenly the lecturer breaks away to pace in front of the classroom. The class is mesmerized. ‘Tell me,’ he continues onto another student. ‘Do you believe in Jesus Christ, son?’

The student’s voice betrays him and cracks. ‘Yes, professor, I do.’

The old man stops pacing. ‘Science says you have five senses you use to identify and observe the world around you. Have you ever seen Jesus?’

‘No sir. I’ve never seen Him.’

‘Then tell us if you’ve ever heard your Jesus?’

‘No, sir, I have not…’

‘Have you ever felt your Jesus, tasted your Jesus or smelt your Jesus? Have you ever had any sensory perception of Jesus Christ, or God for that matter?’

‘No, sir, I’m afraid I haven’t.’

‘Yet you still believe in him?’

‘Yes.’

‘According to the rules of empirical, testable, demonstrable protocol, science says your God doesn’t exist… What do you say to that, son?’

‘Nothing,’ the student replies… ‘I only have my faith.’

‘Yes, faith,’ the professor repeats. ‘And that is the problem science has with God. There is no evidence…only faith.’

The student stands quietly for a moment, before asking a question of His own. ‘Professor, is there such thing as heat? ’

‘Yes.’

‘And is there such a thing as cold?’

‘Yes, son, there’s cold too.’

‘No sir, there isn’t.’

The professor turns to face the student, obviously interested. The room suddenly becomes very quiet. The student begins to explain. ‘You can have lots of heat, even more heat, super-heat, mega-heat, unlimited heat, white heat, a little heat or no heat, but we don’t have anything called ‘cold’. We can hit d own to 458 degrees below zero, which is no heat, but we can’t go any further after that. There is no such thing as cold; otherwise we would be able to go colder than the lowest –458 degrees. Every body or object is susceptible to study when it has or transmits energy, and heat is what makes a body or matter have or transmit energy. Absolute zero (-458 F) is the total absence of heat. You see, sir, ‘cold’ is only a word we use to describe the absence of heat. We cannot measure cold. Heat we can measure in thermal units because heat is energy. Cold is not the opposite of heat, sir, just the absence of it.’

Silence across the room. A pen drops somewhere in the classroom, sounding like a hammer.

‘What about darkness, professor. Is there such a thing as darkness?’

‘Yes,’ the professor replies without hesitation… ‘What is night if it isn’t darkness?’

‘You’re wrong again, sir. Darkness is not something; it is the absence of something. You can have low light, normal light, bright light, flashing light, but if you have no light constantly you have nothing and it’s called darkness, isn’t it? That’s the meaning we use to define the word. In reality, darkness isn’t. If it were, you would be able to make darkness darker, wouldn’t you?’

The professor begins to smile at the student in front of him. This will be a good semester. ‘So what point are you making, young man?’

‘Yes, professor. My point is, your philosophical premise is flawed to start with, and so your conclusion must also be flawed.’

The professor’s face cannot hide his surprise this time. ‘Flawed? Can you explain how?’

‘You are working on the premise of duality,’ the student explains… ‘You argue that there is life and then there’s death; a good God and a bad God. You are viewing the concept of God as something finite, something we can measure. Sir, science can’t even explain a thought. It uses electricity and magnetism, but it has never seen, much less fully understood either one. To view death as the opposite of life is to be ignorant of the fact that death cannot exist as a substantive thing. Death is not the opposite of life, just the absence of it.’

‘Now tell me, professor… Do you teach your students that they evolved from a monkey?’

‘If you are referring to the natural evolutionary process, young man, yes, of course I do.’

‘Have you ever observed evolution with your own eyes, sir?’

The professor begins to shake his head, still smiling, as he realizes where the argument is going. A very good semester, indeed.

‘Since no one has ever observed the process of evolution at work and cannot even prove that this process is an on-going endeavor, are you not teaching your opinion, sir? Are you now not a scientist, but a preacher?’

The class is in uproar. The student remains silent until the commotion has subsided. ‘To continue the point you were making earlier to the other student, let me give you an example of what I mean.’ The student looks around the room. ‘Is there anyone in the class who has ever seen the professor’s brain?’ The class breaks out into laughter. ‘Is there anyone here who has ever heard the professor’s brain, felt the professor’s brain, touched or smelt the professor’s brain? No one appears to have done so. So, according to the established rules of empirical, stable, demonstrable protocol, science says that you have no brain, with all due respect, sir.’ ‘So if science says you have no brain, how can we trust your lectures, sir?’

Now the room is silent. The professor just stares at the student, his face unreadable. Finally, after what seems an eternity, the old man answers. ‘I guess you’ll have to take them on faith.’

‘Now, you accept that there is faith, and, in fact, faith exists with life,’ the student continues. ‘Now, sir, is there such a thing as evil?’ Now uncertain, the professor responds, ‘Of course, there is. We see it every day. It is in the daily example of man’s inhumanity to man. It is in the multitude of crime and violence everywhere in the world. These manifestations are nothing else but evil.’

To this the student replied, ‘Evil does not exist sir, or at least it does not exist unto itself. Evil is simply the absence of God. It is just like darkness and cold, a word that man has created to describe the absence of God. God did not create evil Evil is the result of what happens when man does not have God’s love present in his heart. It’s like the cold that comes when there is no heat or the darkness that comes when there is no light.’

The professor sat down.

The student was Albert Einstein. :D I'm with Einstein.
I didn't fret but this one like this to me.
So you are saying you need satan to tell you there is a god. That it is the absense of God you seek. You think god is absent so do something and behold I could go forth john looks out at Jesus there goes an animal have him pacified to his death. I think I'm against this kind of rhyme and reasoning.
 
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